Must one have the help of Divine grace in order to love their neighbors as themselves?

pasifika

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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?
Hello, i think Love is the highest and the holiest attribute a man can have...if the Almighty God is described as "Love" then when we show love we show God through Us...
 
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PaulCyp1

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"Commanded" to love our neighbors, you say? Commanded by who? Without divine help, we are just another species of the animal kingdom, and most animals watch out for their own and reject others of their species, often attacking them to keep them away from their own family.
 
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public hermit

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Commanded by who?

Jesus said it's the 2nd of the two great commandments.

"One of the scribes came near and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, he asked him, ‘Which commandment is the first of all?’ Jesus answered, ‘The first is, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one; you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.” The second is this, “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” There is no other commandment greater than these." Mark 12:28-31

So, it is a divine command that we love our neighbor.
 
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public hermit

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Without divine help, we are just another species of the animal kingdom, and most animals watch out for their own and reject others of their species, often attacking them to keep them away from their own family

So, from what you're saying, it sounds like God commands us to love our neighbor; however, we can't do that without grace. Does that sound right?
 
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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other hand, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?

Jesus admits that there are those who are evil who love their own.

“For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.” (Luke 6:32).

Yet, Jesus also says: “Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.” (Matthew 19:17).

“He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:8).

Is this to say that sinning unbelievers know God because they are able to love their own?

No. They don't love with the love of God working through them. There is none good, but God. The only good we can truly do is by the power of God working through us to do good.

Others may come close to imitating love and or good deeds, but if they have not surrendered their life to Jesus Christ, then they are no truly doing good by the power of God working in them. Remember, we put forth the fruits of the Spirit (Which is love, joy, peace, etc.), and we do not just put off our own exclusive fruit. We shine forth the ONE who lives in us. GOD. The glorious Trinity (Who is the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost) (1 John 5:7).

“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.” (1 John 4:9).

How can we have an assurance that we know God? If we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).

Note: This would not be the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. This would be the commands given to us by Jesus and His followers in the New Covenant (i.e. New Testament). For the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (John 1:17).

So in conclusion:

The answer to your question would be.... “Yes.” Others may imitate a form of love, but they would not really be loving in the same pure way that God loves when He does loving acts through us when we surrender to Him. Only God is good alone. We can only surrender to God and allow the LORD to change our lives. For only God's actions are pure (unlike men).
 
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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other hand, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?

There is a Christian movie that I seen recently. The actors who played the role of the Christians definitely exhibited a love of God in that film ~ IMO. Really powerful.

Watch Polycarp | Prime Video
 
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public hermit

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Oh cool! I had no idea, thanks. I love Polycarp (not to be confused with "many-fish"). :)

If you have not seen the movie, it is really good. Both my wife and I really enjoyed it. It is very G rated. So there is no violence shown in the film.

You can check out my other Christian DVD recommendations here (if you are interested):

My Christian DVD Collection
(Includes movie artwork, trailers, and where to rent or buy).
(30 Christian movies listed).
 
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fhansen

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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other hand, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?
I don't think we can love our neighbors as we ought, according to God's ought, without grace. And we can always love them-and Him-better in any case and I think that growth is also expected.
 
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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other hand, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?
The obedience teachings of Christ, which includes the edict to love they neighbor, can only be obeyed through The Holy Spirit. This Truth and understanding has come to me more and more these last few years. Any positive changes in my own life have come from Christ and not of myself. This Truth is humbling to all who are in Christ.
 
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disciple Clint

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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other hand, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?
While it is possible for anyone to love, Christians are to love when there is no advantage to them, that is not always the case with non Christians.
 
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public hermit

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According to Catholic theology, the answer is yes.

I'm glad you said this. I would have thought it would be mostly Protestants who held that sin has had such an effect that without grace, all love is tainted by self-interest. In practice I wouldn't know who influences Catholic thought more, St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas, but if the later wouldn't there be a bit more ability on the side of human nature? I don't really know, but I'm curious.
 
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public hermit

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The obedience teachings of Christ, which includes the edict to love they neighbor, can only be obeyed through The Holy Spirit. This Truth and understanding has come to be more and more these last few years. Any positive changes in my own life have come from Christ and not of myself. This Truth is humbling to all who are in Christ.

I can go along with this. Wouldn't that mean when anyone loves it's under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The difference being, some know it and acknowledge it?
 
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While it is possible for anyone to love, Christians are to love when there is no advantage to them, that is not always the case with non Christians.

That's a very nuanced way to put it. I agree. I would add, it's not always the case with Christians, either. Would you say anyone who loves when they are not seeking their own advantage are fulfilling the command, at that moment at least? Perhaps all love like that is God inspired?
 
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I don't think we can love our neighbors as we ought, according to God's ought, without grace. And we can always love them-and Him-better in any case and I think that growth is also expected.

Maybe the command was given not because we can, but to show us the goal and our need for grace to reach it? That was a fairly common position among the Reformers (Luther/Calvin).
 
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On the one hand, it would seem grace is not necessary. The principle, ought implies can, suggest as much. If we are commanded to love our neighbors it seems would should be able to do so without special divine help.

On the other hand, if we could fulfill the command without divine help, then why would we need grace at all? Perhaps our sin condition keeps us from being able to love as we should, and divine grace is necessary to help us do what we are otherwise unable to do. Of course, if this is true, the only people who ever love would be Christians, which seems absurd, on the face of it.

What do you think?
It depends on your definition of love. Only God has perfect love. How quickly human love fails - just look at the divorce rate. If a Christian wants to live the highest level of life, he/she needs to depend entirely on the love that God sheds abroad in the Christian's heart by His Holy Spirit.

If you want to know what quality of love you are expressing, compare it to 1 Corinthians 13. One thing is obvious - it is not a feeling. As the Don Francisco song says, "Love is not a feeling, it's an act of the will".
 
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public hermit

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One thing is obvious - it is not a feeling. As the Don Francisco song says, "Love is not a feeling, it's an act of the will"

I wholly agree. One can love without having the emotions we often call "love." That being said, and this only recently dawned on me, I do think when the love is mutual (between humans, or God and humans) joy is an outcome. And, when we enter the presence of Divine love, the joy will be perpetual. But, as things stand in this world love is primarily an act of the will that does not depend on how we feel.
 
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Aussie Pete

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I wholly agree. One can love without having the emotions we often call "love." That being said, and this only recently dawned on me, I do think when the love is mutual (between humans, or God and humans) joy is an outcome. And, when we enter the presence of Divine love, the joy will be perpetual. But, as things stand in this world love is primarily an act of the will that does not depend on how we feel.
Love, joy, peace etc all aspects of the fruit of the Spirit. There is a human equivalent but it's always fallible and fragile. As Lord Jesus says, His peace is not as the world gives......
 
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fhansen

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Maybe the command was given not because we can, but to show us the goal and our need for grace to reach it? That was a fairly common position among the Reformers (Luther/Calvin).
Yes, another way of putting it is that we need God in order to reach it. “Apart from Me you can do nothing.” The CC teaches, along with Scripture, that the law was a tutor that could not, itself, effect the result that it commanded, could not justify, IOW. As such the law could only serve to convict us of sin, to teach that we failed to live up to its standards, to its “oughts”, on our own. We need something More.
 
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