LoveGodsWord

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For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
The topic isn’t one I’ve got much of an investment in, but I’m curious how people in the chat who are still open to the idea of dietary restrictions (as a commandment) would understand the above material. Mark 7:19 ^^^^ for quick reading.

Hopefully a novel or careful take on the verse/chapter, not something I could just google myself.

Hi Cormack nice to meet you,

The thread has gotten hijacked a little at the moment but happy to address this before hopefully moving back to the OP topic.

Let's look at the context, and subject matter of Mark 7.

Mark 7:1-23.
[1], Then came together to him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
[2, And WHEN THEY SAW SOME OF HIS DISCIPLES EAT BREAD WITH DEFILED, THAT IS TO SAY, WITH UNWASHED, HANDS, THEY FOUND FAULT.

Note very carefully the context here and the topic of conversations the subject matter is to eating with unwashed hands, pots and cups the target audience is to the Jews and Pharisees that know the dietary laws and the subject matter is not to clean and unclean foods but man-made teachings and traditions of washing of hands pots and cups.

[3], For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the TRADITIONS OF THE ELDERS.
[4], And WHEN THEY COME FROM THE MARKET, EXCEPT THEY WASH, THEY EAT NOT. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, AS THE WASHING OF CUPS, AND POTS, BRAZEN VESSELS, AND OF TABLES.
[5], Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not your disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with UNWASHED HANDS?
[6], He answered and said to them, Well has Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
[7], However, IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.
[8], FOR LAYING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, YOU HOLD THE TRADITION OF MEN, AS THE WASHING OF POTS AND CUPS: AND MANY OTHER SUCH LIKE THINGS YOU DO.
[9], And he said to them, FULL WELL YOU REJECT THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YOU MAY KEEP YOUR OWN TRADITION.
[10], For MOSES SAID, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER; AND, WHOEVER CURSES FATHER OR MOTHER, LET HIM DIE THE DEATH:
[11], But you say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatever you might be profited by me; he shall be free.
[12], AND YOU SUFFER HIM NO MORE TO DO OUGHT FOR HIS FATHER OR HIS MOTHER;
[13], MAKING THE WORD OF GOD OF NONE EFFECT THROUGH YOUR TRADITION, WHICH YOU HAVE DELIVERED: AND MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS DO YOU.
[14], And when he had called all the people to him, he said to them, Listen to me every one of you, and understand:
[15], THERE IS NOTHING FROM WITHOUT A MAN, THAT ENTERING INTO HIM CAN DEFILE HIM: BUT THE THINGS WHICH COME OUT OF HIM, THOSE ARE THEY THAT DEFILE THE MAN.
[16], If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
[17], And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
[18], And he said to them, ARE YOU SO WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING ALSO? DO YOU NOT PERCEIVE, THAT WHATEVER THING FROM WITHOUT ENTERS INTO THE MAN, IT CANNOT DEFILE HIM;
[19] BECAUSE IT ENTERS NOT INTO HIS HEART, BUT INTO THE BELLY, AND GOES OUT INTO THE DRAUGHT, PURGING ALL MEATS?
[20], AND HE SAID, THAT WHICH COMES OUT OF THE MAN, THAT DEFILES THE MAN.
[21], FOR FROM WITHIN, OUT OF THE HEART OF MEN, PROCEED EVIL THOUGHTS, ADULTERIES, FORNICATIONS, MURDERS,
[22], Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
[23], ALL THESE EVIL THINGS COME FROM WITHIN, AND DEFILE THE MAN.

Note there is nothing whatsoever in these scriptures that has anything to do with the laws of clean and unclean meats. The chapter contexts is to the traditions of the Elders of the washing of hands, pots and cups *Mark 7:1-5 and how not doing so defiles a man or not. There is nothing about clean and unclean meats here. Jesus target audience here is to the Jews who knew the dietary laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Jesus himself practiced them as our example.

The point of the scripture being to the chapter context and subject matter, is to the "washing of pots and cups and not washing of the hands that makes a man unclean (defiled)" (Mark 7:8) but breaking God's commandments and what comes out of the heart and mouth of the man that defiles (makes unclean) a man.

Don't forget Jesus practices the laws of clean and unclean foods and also says. "Think not that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets, I have not come to destroy but to fulfill. Till heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled - Matthew 5:17-19.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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Cormack

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Hi Cormack nice to meet you,

Thanks for the warm greeting, @LoveGodsWord. I’ll do my absolute best not to derail the topic, as I’m a stickler for on topic posts myself.

Thanks for attempting to tackle the objection and interpret Mark 7:19, despite the exercise running contrary to what you believe the topic was about. :)
 
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Cormack

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Do you believe it’s important to include Marks parenthetical note, @LoveGodsWord? I notice it’s not included in your quotation of Mark 7:19.

On topic, I’m assuming the everlasting Gospel is what we’d read about in 1 Corinthians 15, Christ dying for our sins (in accordance with the scriptures) and rising again.

Would anyone disagree or assume that’s only part of the gospel? Paul says he writes it as a matter of “first importance.”

Replying to the OP: Following that gospel from 1 Corinthians has led me into a greater kind of peace, the Spirits comfort people would teach. :thumbsup: The simplicity of the Gospel.
 
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HIM

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For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

In the highlighted parenthetical note, presumably by Mark himself. Unless we question the integrity of the scriptures here.
That note is not Scripture. It is commentary inserted by whatever version of the Bible you are looking at.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Do you believe it’s important to include Marks parenthetical note, @LoveGodsWord? I notice it’s not included in your quotation of Mark 7:19.
No worries Cormack thanks for being understanding and respecting the OP. (Thus he declared all foods clean.) is in parenthetical markings because it is not in the original Greek and has been added in by the translators. You can check this at Biblehub if you have some time and your interested. This is also verified in the chapter context I shared with you in post # 61 linked, where the subject matter was not eating clean and unclean food or the biblical food laws but to the traditions of the elders of washing of pots, cups and hands making a man clean or unclean. Don't forget the audience of Jesus here was the Jews who know God's food laws.
On topic, I’m assuming the everlasting Gospel is what we’d read about in 1 Corinthians 15, Christ dying for our sins (in accordance with the scriptures) and rising again. Would anyone disagree or assume that’s only part of the gospel? Paul says he reposts it as a matter of “first importance.” Replying to the OP: Following that gospel from 1 Corinthians has led me into a greater kind of peace, the Spirits comfort people would also so. :thumbsup: The simplicity of the Gospel.
Let me know your thoughts on post # 9 linked. I believe that the gospel according to the bibles definition is all the Word of God in the old and new testament scriptures because both the old and new testament scriptures point to JESUS as the living Word of God and God's plan of salvation revealed through His Word which is "good news" for all those who believe and follow them. It is God's Word that is the gospel and it is God's Word we are to live by according to the scriptures *Matthew 4:4. All of God's Word points to the central theme of the bible (gospel) and that is Christ and him crucified. The central theme of Gods' good new (gospel) for all mankind of course is the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and His role as God's sacrifice for the sins of the world to all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. Here is where we see the ultimate sacrifice and Gods love for all mankind and God's justice, mercy and love all meet together at the cross of Christ.

God bless
 
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Cormack

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That note is not Scripture. It is commentary inserted by whatever version of the Bible you are looking at.

NIV

For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)​

NLT

Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)​

ESV

since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)​

Christian standard

For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated” (thus he declared all foods clean ).​

NASB

because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)​

I’m only stopping there because every translation seems to have it, the only exception being the KJV.

I know the parentheses can make a text look sketchy somehow, because we’re used to these things [[ ]]]] ((( ))) implying the translations are faulty or something, but everyone appears to agree that that’s part of the original text.

If you checked out a site like hermetic stock exchange etc, you’d find that it’s a perfectly valid portion of the original Bible.
 
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HIM

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NIV

For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)​

NLT

Food doesn’t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.” (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God’s eyes.)​

ESV

since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)​

Christian standard

For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated” (thus he declared all foods clean ).​

NASB

because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?" (Thus He declared all foods clean.)​

I’m only stopping there because every translation seems to have it, the only exception being the KJV.

I know the parentheses can make a text look sketchy somehow, because we’re used to these things [[ ]]]] ((( ))) implying the translations are faulty or something, but everyone appears to agree that that’s part of the original text.

If you checked out a site like hermetic stock exchange etc, you’d find that it’s a perfectly valid portion of the original Bible.
"Thus He declared all foods clean", is not in the text it is commentary or they paraphrased in their translation. They are inserting what they think rather than translating what is actually there.
 
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Cormack

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"Thus He declared all foods clean", is not in the text it is commentary or they paraphrased in their translation. They are inserting what they think rather than translating what is actually there.

The thing is it’s part of an original manuscript tradition, meaning “them” and “they,” the person who did the parenthetical note, that’s Mark.

That’s the original authors comment. So unless there’s an appropriate reason to deny scripture at this point, that portion is Marks material.

It’s what we describe as God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired scripture.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The thing is it’s part of an original manuscript tradition, meaning “them” and “they,” the person who did the parenthetical note, that’s Mark.

That’s the original authors comment. So unless there’s an appropriate reason to deny scripture at this point, that portion is Marks material.

It’s what we describe as God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired scripture.

Hi Cormack, the parenthetical notes from Mark 7:19 or any bible translation on a scripture verse is not from the authors (or Mark in the case of Mark 7:19) of the biblical texts. There are no parenthetical notes in the Greek or Hebrew scrolls or manuscripts. These are normally added in from the translators. Unless I am understanding what your trying to say here incorrectly in which case I would ask for further clarification on what you mean.
 
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Cormack

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Hi Cormack, the parenthetical notes from Mark 7:19 or any bible translation on a scripture verse is not from the authors (or Mark in the case of Mark 7:19). There are no parenthetical notes in the Greek or Hebrew scrolls or manuscripts. These are normally added in from the translators. Unless I am understanding what your trying to say here incorrectly in which case I would ask for further clarification.

I think the point is that the words Jesus declared all foods clean belong to the original manuscript, obviously the modern grammar of parenthetical markings wasn’t in use back then.

The point is that the entire parenthetical construct, the actual words that say “In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.” Those words are from the original.

There’s no hint of controversy there.

Is there any reason to think that Mark 7:19 has a later addition?
 
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The thing is it’s part of an original manuscript tradition, meaning “them” and “they,” the person who did the parenthetical note, that’s Mark.

That’s the original authors comment. So unless there’s an appropriate reason to deny scripture at this point, that portion is Marks material.

It’s what we describe as God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired scripture.

Out of interest those translations that use (Thus he declared all foods clean.). Is not in the original Greek. Go look it up.
 
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I think the point is that the words Jesus declared all foods clean belong to the original manuscript, obviously the modern grammar of parenthetical markings wasn’t in use back then.

The point is that the entire parenthetical construct, the actual words that say “In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.” Those words are from the original.

There’s no hint of controversy there.

Is there any reason to think that Mark 7:19 has a later addition?

We must have been writing at the same time. If you look at the original Greek (Thus he declared all foods clean.) is in parenthetical markings because it is not in the original Greek and has been added in by the translators. Sorry I only just understood now what you were asking before. Late my time Zzz :sleep:. I added this back into my first post above.

God bless
 
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Cormack

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Out of interest those translations that use (Thus he declared all foods clean.). Is not in the original Greek. Go look it up.

We have the same words in Greek from Mark 7:19. The whole point of Jesus declaring all foods clean appears in the original Greek, that’s why originally I asked for an interpretation, because the fact that the words are there is a settled issue.
 
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HIM

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Hi HIM yes absolutely! *Ephesians 2:8-9
Hi again. I hope you have had a wonderful Sabbath. I love them verses. Ephesians was one of my first favorite Letters from God.

So is it safe to say God's grace, His Gift is the Gospel?

For great is His Love, His gift. Raised up from death and quickened together with Christ, sitting in heavenly places. His workmanship Re-created in Christ Jesus unto good works which GOD have preordained that we should walk in them. For by this Grace, this Gift we are saved through faith. Not of our selves and what we can do, our work. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. Christ in us the hope of Glory. The Kingdom of God, God within you.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
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We have the same words in Greek from Mark 7:19. The whole point of Jesus declaring all foods clean appears in the original Greek, that’s why originally I asked for an interpretation, because the fact that the words are there is a settled issue.

(Thus he declared all foods clean.) is in parenthetical markings because it is not in the original Greek and has been added in by the translators. You can check this at Biblehub if you have some time and your interested. This is also verified in the chapter context I shared with you in post # 61 linked, where the subject matter was not eating clean and unclean food or the biblical food laws but to the traditions of the elders of washing of pots, cups and hands making a man clean or unclean. Don't forget the audience of Jesus here was the Jews who know God's food laws.

God bless
 
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HIM

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We have the same words in Greek from Mark 7:19. The whole point of Jesus declaring all foods clean appears in the original Greek, that’s why originally
No it does not
 
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Hi again. I hope you have had a wonderful Sabbath. I love them verses. Ephesians was one of my first favorite Letters from God.

So is it safe to say God's grace, His Gift is the Gospel?

For great is His Love, His gift. Raised up from death and quickened together with Christ, sitting in heavenly places. His workmanship Re-created in Christ Jesus unto good works which GOD have preordained that we should walk in them. For by this Grace, this Gift we are saved through faith. Not of our selves and what we can do, our work. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. Christ in us the hope of Glory. The Kingdom of God, God within you.

Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Indeed HIM! This is where all the Word of God points to JESUS is the central theme of the gospel (the Word of God) and is good news to all those who receive it by holding out the hand of faith!

God bless
 
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