Without looking closely at the verses you reference, I think we are in agreement here. Recalling our discussion before re: Salvation, I knew I could find you using phrases like "Initial Salvation" and "Continued Salvation" because we both know Salvation is a process.
KJV Romans 10:16 But they have not all
obeyed (hupakouo) the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath
believed (pisteuo) our report? Parallelism between obedience and belief. Good translation. A more recent translation in agreement: NET Romans 10:16 But not all have
obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has
believed our report?"
Bear with me on this next one & I'll also address your observations re: “
apeitheō” in John 3:36, which, BTW,
I mostly agree with. I would take it a bit further and say “
apeitheō” should be translated as "does not obey."
I'm going to highlight some words through this section to note as important re: faith & obedience. I'll summarize a few things at the end:
NKJ Hebrews. 3:5-4:7 And Moses indeed was
faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are
if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. 7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice, 8
Do not harden your hearts as in the
rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said,`They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' 11 So I swore in My wrath,`They shall not enter My rest.'" 12
Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief (apistia) in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be
hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For
we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said: "Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion." 16 For who, having heard,
rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who
sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who
did not obey (apeitheō) ? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of
unbelief (apistia).
4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest,
let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but
the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith (pistis) in those who heard it. 3 For we who
have believed (pisteuō) do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath,`They shall not enter My rest,'" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and
those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience (apeitheia), 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts."
1. Firstly, there are repeated warnings here to "brethren" (3:12) re: the deceitfulness of sin, hardening our hearts, departing from the living God, rebellion, sinned, holding fast until the end, being Christ's house "if," etc. I'm sure that you do not see these as empty warnings. Nor do I. I like how all of this is contrasted with a statement re: "faithful (
pistos)" Abraham.
2. RE:
apeitheō: One of the reasons I see
apeitheō better translated as "not obey" rather than "not believe" is seen in 3:12 where "
apistia" is properly translated as "unbelief" - the alpha privative negating
pistis (belief). IOW, there is a word that means no belief, so why force
apeitheō to say it? At the end of it all, there's not much difference though, because faith & obedience are essentially 2 sides of the same coin, as they say, so disobedience<>unbelief.
You can see how this translation is
correlating rebellion, sin, disobedience, and unbelief. There's a clear reason for this: belief is commanded, so unbelief is disobedience, rebellion, sin...
And in 3:19
apeitheō /disobedience is used in parallel with
apistia / unbelief.
So, this is another Faith and Obedience parallel. I think all of these highlighted words are well-translated here.
3. The same parallel between faith and obedience carries into 4:2-6. They did not mix the word/message they heard with faith parallels they did not enter in because of disobedience. No faith / no obedience -
so faith /obedience.
Another few verses to consider would be Paul's essentially bookending Romans with the phrase (most literally translated) "obedience [of] faith" (1:5; 16:26) as his stated mission to the nations on behalf of Christ's name (1:5) and God's command (16:26).
I know you hold to the KJB, but look at the Greek and branch out a bit to other translations to see how they are just using the most literal translation I've shown.
One of the legitimate ways to translate this Greek phrase is something like Faith-Obedience, which is what I decided to do some time ago after studying "Faith" extensively in our Text. Some reasoning for this:
Not only does Paul use faith & obedience interchangeably in Romans 10 as I've shown, but Hebrews also does, and, as I've said many times, since we're commanded to believe, then our belief is also our obedience. When we believe what God commands us to believe, we're also, at the same time, being obedient to God.
In a Greek Grammar, such as Greek Beyond the Basics by Daniel Wallace, you'll find a legitimate choice for a translator/interpreter to translate this phrase per the classification he calls "Genitive of Apposition." Wallace instructs that one of the ways to test this translation is to replace the word "of" with the paraphrase "which is" or "that is" or "namely." So, we would end up testing our choice by translating this as "faith which is obedience," which I see as clearly substantiated by what I've shown above.
Just to be clear, Wallace also points out that the 2 nouns in such a phrase are related, but "The equation, however, is not exact." I think this is clearly the case with Faith & Obedience: they are clearly closely related in our Text, but the equation is not exact. I think I can show you Jesus dealing with this in Luke.
There are a few other choices for translation, but they all ultimately also tie these 2 words together in one way or another. You can see also in Romans 15:18 how Paul is saying how Christ worked through him for "obedience [of] nations." So, as in Romans 10, Paul is continuing to use faith and obedience in parallel / interchangeably. Interesting how he does not say Christ worked through him for faith of nations. But, then again, he in essence did, because faith and obedience are mostly interchangeable in his mind and thus words. And since faith is not a work per Paul, then neither is obedience.
I was being facetious about praying to Mary. It was hopefully meant for Daniel's amusement.
