What it would entail to lose your salvation.

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
In college, I took a denominations and Sects class, and was required to go to a nonLutheran service, observe, and write a paper on it. Having been new to Pentecostalism, and missing Assembly of God services, I chose a pentecostal church, knowing something about it, and would be able to observe and speak in tongues during the service. Kind of an easy A.

The congregation was different, however. I noticed every woman and girl had long hair, and wore dresses or skirts. The men all had short hair, no beards, and suits. On the altar was a painting of The Last Supper, but the disciples and Jesus had no beards, and looked like they went to Great Clips to get short, preppy haircuts. After the service, I asked about it. I was quoted Deuteronomy:

A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.

Therefore, they believed it a sin for women to wear pants. "The bible is very clear on this."

The bible says a number of things, like stoning disobedient children and not being in the same tent (or bedroom) during one's wife's cycle.

What left me questioning their obedience to this verse is the importance they placed upon it, to the point of doctoring The Last Supper to look like a Gap ad, which I highly doubt was accurate, given the tine the gospels were written.

My paper asked the question: Dies the Father really care about women wearing pants, or business suits? Women's bodies are different, so while the clothes may be similar, as Michael shows in The Office, where he buys a suit on sale, not understanding it is a woman's suit, didn't have the cut of a man's so was too tight in the seat, the crotch and shoulders, and are not the same. But there are unisex clothing. Is this really an issue for God?

Or is God far more concerned in forgiveness shown to others, like when we pray "Forgive us our sins as we forgive others who sin against us," or the parable of the Master who forgives a man of a great debt, but when the man refuses to forgive a servant of a small debt, the master is angered, and reinstates the debt. Is God not more concerned that when asked to walk a mile, we walk 3, when asked for our shirt , offer our coat as well, when we see another who is hungry, we feed them, and live a life of actively loving others.

From their point of view, the verse says what it says, and all who disobey are willfully sinning.

As with the Good Samritan, whike the Levite and priest followed the law in terms of cleanliness, that they did not have the love to feel empathy and understand a greater commandment, to love their neighbor, was not followed, they actually sinned, failing what they were called to do, and the Samaritan followed the love for his neighbor by showing mercy, and helping the stranger, asking nothing in return.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
After I wrote that, my family called me on Zoom, and I kept thinking, "oh, no!! I wrote "you" as in the general you, but to say "one" seems clunky, overly formal and stiff, but was worried you personally would read it and think it was an atrack or judgement on you, personally, which it wasn't. And you responded in love. Thank you for that. I'm impressed, and hope it wasn't misunderstood.

The story was the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector, in which Christ honors the tax collector, who humbles himself before God, but not the Pharisee, whose self righteousness boasts to God, and condemns the tax collector. For the people of the time, i would be like Christ honoring a thief but condemning a self righteous priest.

And I wonder if we are arguing semantics, because I don't get up every day, thinking, "I'm going to go sin. Bwah hah hah haaaaah." I can't imagine why someone with the idea to rob people as a professional thief or in a gang, would really care about religion or salvation.

But I do, however, stumble. Have I lied to save face because I was embarrassed to admit to truth to a friend? Yes, but part of "repentance" for me was not simply asking God for forgiveness, but going to that friend, admitted that I lied, ask him for forgiveness, explain why I did it, and then tell him I won't do it again.

But because I occasionally stumble, I need Christ. If I lived a pure Christ-like life, I would demand others to be perfect like me, and condemn them when they are human and make mistakes, and not be able to relate, so, not really granting forgiveness. This was the problem in the parable of the Pharisee and the tac collector. The Pharisee went boastfully before God, was very proud of how holy he perceived himself, and let others know how holy he was, to the point of condemning others that didn't meet his misguided standard of obedience and holiness. Christ only honors the tax collector, who humbles himself before God, and asks for forgiveness he knows he doesn't deserve.

For the people of the time, it would be like Christ condemning a self righteous priest, but honoring a thief. His disciples were shocked by the story.

Samaritans were thought to be worse than the "sinners," and when the man is beaten, the Levite and priest, possibly honoring the commandment of cleanliness on their way to Temple, pass over the beaten man, while the "sinner," the Samaritan, helps a total stranger, pays for a room in an in and cares for the man. So, while the Levite and priest were obedient to the Law, they didn't love their neighbor as themselves. They followed the law to a fault of understanding the call to love their neighbor as themselves takes priority. And knowing that, those who taught the Scripture were the first to condemn Christ for healing in the Sabbath, or accuse him of healing by power of Satan. They knew the law. They usedit to burden and condemn others, and probably easily forgave themselve, and loved being thought holy by the people. Christ called them out.

I don't see people as sinners, as sin itself, but in know I, too have faults I need to work on, I can humble myself, and see others as my neighbor, on the same level, even humble myself before them.

But the question I was trying to understand is, understanding how one would evangelize "God loved us in creation, we sinned, he sent Christ to us, we killed him, a d Christ's sacrifice paid the price giving us salvation and eternal life in heaven.

Or you may lose it..

If I were a person coming to Christ, it would make me question if the resurrection would assure me salvation, or if God would turn on me for some rule, known or unknown, that I broke. I would live in fear and doubt. I would have difficulty having a strong faith feeling like one misstep, and God will shrug indifferently at Judgement and give me a "rules are rules" and condemn me to hell. And it would make me question a God that wouldn't be at least as forgiving as I am.
Dear Beanieboy,

Thank you for your very kind response. It’s helpful in understanding God’s gift not as salvation from hell but instead salvation from sin and coming into relationship with the living God. If a person receives that gift but decides later the price is too high preferring the freedom to sin, how can God save a man from something he doesn’t want to be saved from? That is, he WANTS particular sins. Do you see how this is impossible without God doing what is actually evil?

It’s a similar situation with Heaven itself. There are those who complain about God not letting everyone into heaven thereby escape hell’s suffering afflicting residents. But God would answer that these didn’t want Him, His home, His demands that everyone love truth and righteousness. They would hate it in Heaven because they rejected loving those matters on earth.

It’s not that God’s promises fail. It’s that there are conditions that are absolutely necessary for us to fulfill. Now if a sheep start to wander away, He exercises great power in drawing them back. He pursues them which some report made them completely miserable in their sin until they repented.

Think of a marriage. A couple are legally married in the space of a few minutes. But a marriage is lost over a long time with many chances to mend it before it’s finally over. If one side deeply loves the other, they even humble themselves and pursue the other trying to win them back. This is a very long process as compared to the time it took to become married.

Salvation from sin is not at all easily lost. But I know believers who no longer wanted to pay the price of being a Christian and now call themselves an atheist. One of them is a famous atheist having started an organization to inhibit Christians legally. Should God honor some kind of “legal agreement” despite them not wanting Him and His wats at all and delighting in recruiting more atheists from believers to their dying day?

Do you see what I mean? None of this applies to you. Jesus would tell us to make sure it never does.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In the story of the man forgiven a great debt who refused to forgive his servant of a small debt, his debt was reinstated.

So, do we lose salvation by refusing to forgive those who sin against us, because it does not honor the forgiveness we are given through grace?
I’m sorry to tell you this is exactly what it means. This is a strong motivation to forgive others and it has motorized me to do so when I didn’t feel like it.

And if we speak out that we forgive but are still struggling inside to completely do so, it still counts in God’s eyes. It is still refusing to refuse to forgive. In those cases I ask God to help me truly forgive. Depending upon the offense, it has taken me years at times to be free of the emotional baggage.

Does that help?

PS: You can easily see in this case the Once Saved Always Saved theologians remove this verse essentially. With that theology one needn’t forgive anyone ever. It (and all other obedience to the teaching of Jesus) becomes an optional extra done for rewards in the sweet by and by. Those christians can only say one “should” forgive. Those who believe the whole Bible see that they MUST forgive. They cannot wait til God changes em so they’ll do it without any struggle, without any pain to the proudful heart.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In college, I took a denominations and Sects class, and was required to go to a nonLutheran service, observe, and write a paper on it. Having been new to Pentecostalism, and missing Assembly of God services, I chose a pentecostal church, knowing something about it, and would be able to observe and speak in tongues during the service. Kind of an easy A.

The congregation was different, however. I noticed every woman and girl had long hair, and wore dresses or skirts. The men all had short hair, no beards, and suits. On the altar was a painting of The Last Supper, but the disciples and Jesus had no beards, and looked like they went to Great Clips to get short, preppy haircuts. After the service, I asked about it. I was quoted Deuteronomy:

A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.

Therefore, they believed it a sin for women to wear pants. "The bible is very clear on this."

The bible says a number of things, like stoning disobedient children and not being in the same tent (or bedroom) during one's wife's cycle.

What left me questioning their obedience to this verse is the importance they placed upon it, to the point of doctoring The Last Supper to look like a Gap ad, which I highly doubt was accurate, given the tine the gospels were written.

My paper asked the question: Dies the Father really care about women wearing pants, or business suits? Women's bodies are different, so while the clothes may be similar, as Michael shows in The Office, where he buys a suit on sale, not understanding it is a woman's suit, didn't have the cut of a man's so was too tight in the seat, the crotch and shoulders, and are not the same. But there are unisex clothing. Is this really an issue for God?

Or is God far more concerned in forgiveness shown to others, like when we pray "Forgive us our sins as we forgive others who sin against us," or the parable of the Master who forgives a man of a great debt, but when the man refuses to forgive a servant of a small debt, the master is angered, and reinstates the debt. Is God not more concerned that when asked to walk a mile, we walk 3, when asked for our shirt , offer our coat as well, when we see another who is hungry, we feed them, and live a life of actively loving others.

From their point of view, the verse says what it says, and all who disobey are willfully sinning.

As with the Good Samritan, whike the Levite and priest followed the law in terms of cleanliness, that they did not have the love to feel empathy and understand a greater commandment, to love their neighbor, was not followed, they actually sinned, failing what they were called to do, and the Samaritan followed the love for his neighbor by showing mercy, and helping the stranger, asking nothing in return.
I attended an AOG in my teen years and one guy there told me that women’s pants were so different that they are not men’s clothing at all. He said he wouldn’t be caught dead in pants like that.

In any move of the HS there is following it the temptation to make rules to keep it. Then later the rules become the measure of holiness instead the Spirit inside. Rules are easier than practicing discernment.

Were you raised Lutheran? Just wondering. And you are right. Forgiveness and love of God and man are the matters He wants us to focus on. How we dress follows that.
 
Upvote 0

Inkfingers

Somebody's heretic
Site Supporter
May 17, 2014
5,638
1,548
✟160,762.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation, let's take a look at what would have to happen for you to lose your salvation. To answer that question we have to examine how a person is saved.

The bible says that we are are saved by grace through faith in the gospel of Jeaus Christ ...

Saved - sozo, made safe and well

By grace - charis, undeserved and condescending kindness (condescending in the archaic sense rather than the modern)

As a gift - Doron, a gift

Through faith - pistis, being utterly convinced, having no doubt whatsoever, believing with as little doubt as you believe that 2+2=4

Not through works - ergon, effort and labour

So God either puts it in our heart to be convinced or He does not. It's not something that takes or needs any effort at all from us, but is utterly a gift and utterly convincing. So that, to me, looks as if it can never be lost - it's appearance though may possibly be counterfeited to the eyes of man...
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Saved - sozo, made safe and well

By grace - charis, undeserved and condescending kindness (condescending in the archaic sense rather than the modern)

As a gift - Doron, a gift

Through faith - pistis, being utterly convinced, having no doubt whatsoever, believing with as little doubt as you believe that 2+2=4

Not through works - ergon, effort and labour

So God either puts it in our heart to be convinced or He does not. It's not something that takes or needs any effort at all from us, but is utterly a gift and utterly convincing. So that, to me, looks as if it can never be lost - it's appearance though may possibly be counterfeited to the eyes of man...
And those lost in hell are there because he refused to put it in their hearts to be convinced????

Also makes one wonder how come no one in the whole of the Bible ever simply asked to “put it in the hearts of men to believe” instead of the rigors of preaching!
 
  • Winner
Reactions: K Watt
Upvote 0

Beanieboy

Senior Veteran
Jan 20, 2006
6,296
1,213
60
✟50,122.00
Faith
Christian
In a amall town Wed of Chicago called Ottawa. I went to a Christian Rock concert retreat, had never heard of baptism of the Spirit or that people speak in tongue, and hapoened that weekend, but because of how the Spirit changes you, and the tool of tongues, I thought it a great disservice that it isn't taught at all in Lutheran churches. And because it was pre-internet, the info was more hidden.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

K Watt

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2020
602
134
59
DFW
✟21,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation, let's take a look at what would have to happen for you to lose your salvation. To answer that question we have to examine how a person is saved.

The bible says that we are are saved by grace through faith in the gospel of Jeaus Christ which Paul describes the Gospel quite well in 1 Corrinthians 15:1-8). Other verses that say that we are saved by grace through faith are Ephesians 2:8-9, Roman's 10:9, John 3:16, Romans 1:16, John 5:24, 1 John 5:13, Titus 3:5, Acts 16:30-31, and there are more but I think cannot think of them at the moment).

The Bible says that there is not one person who ever lived that cannot be saved (Isaiah 50;2).

The bible also says that when a person comes to Christ and places their faith in him that they are a new creation (2 Corrinthians 5:17). For a born again Christian to lose their salvation God would have to somehow undo our new creation. Something that NO verse in the Bible says that God will do.

A Christian is redeemed and when they are born again they are born of incorruptible seed (1 Peter 1:23). They are declared Justified and Righteous to God (Roman's 5:1, 2 Corrinthians 5:21) For our salvation to be lost God would have to break his promise of one day redeeming us when our Lord returns and he would have go declare us unrighteous (even though we were bought by the perfect blood of Jesus Christ and this is an impossibility as Peter says in 1 Peter 1:12) Peter also calls our inheritance "reserved in heaven for us as an inheritance that can never blemish,perish, or fade away) so, this is impossible.

Paul also talks about when we are born again we are marked with a seal by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14) for God to take away our salvation he would have to break this seal and break this security in Christ Which is the complete opposite of what a seal means in the Bible. See the seals of the tribulation scrolls in Revelation or click here for a definition of what a seal means in the Bible and where the word seal is used in the Biblehttps://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/seal/

Finally if a Christian could lose their salvation than Paul, Peter, and John lied to us and our Christian faith is built amongst a web of lies for the reasons I gave above. The apostle John talked nothing short of eternal security in Christ, Peter did, and so did Paul. Not only that but the writer of Hebrews did as well in Hebrews 10:10.

And to top it all off Jesus Christ (who many Christian's believe to be God in the Flesh) lied as well. Jesus promises in John 6:37-40 that not ONE of those the Father gives him will be lost. He again promises in John 10:9 that he is the gate and whoever enters through him WILL be saved. See the beginning of John 10 until John 10:9 to fully understand just what Christ is talking about here.

He also says in John 10:28-30 that he gives his sheep (Born again Christians) Eternal life. He promises that nobody can take them out of Gods hand (not even themselves to claim that is to claim that somehow we are more powerful than God plus if somebody could freely walk out of Gods hand dont you think he would have mentioned it in his promise meant to comfort his believers?) He also says that his sheep will NEVER perish!

In order for us to lose our salvation we would have to redefine what Eternal life means correct? Because idk the last time I heard the word Eternal it meant FOREVER!

Not to mention in order to lose our salvation we would have to lose the Holy Spirit. Which God promised would be with us FOREVER (John 14:16) (! Again with that forever/eternal word... must be the meaning of forever has changed in the last 2,000 years...)


So to say that you can lose your salvation is calling God a liar and if you cannot trust God who can you trust? If we cannot trust scripture than who can we trust? Just like if Christ was never raised from the dead our faith is in vain if we do not and cannot trust the promises of God than our faith is in vain as well. God has NEVER failed go keep a promise yet, never has, and never will. When Jesus said in Revelation 3:5 that those who are victorious (Born again. John uses the same terminology in 1 John 5:4) he will NEVER erase them from the book of life (curses there's that never, eternal, forever word again!) but will acknowledge our name before God the Father and his Angel's as righteous! Tell me, if we can never be erased from the book of life and are declared righteous just... how can we lose our salvation again?

These points and examples are just some of the verses in the bible that speak about the security of the born again believer.

In order for a "Christian" to "lose" their salvation is if they were never born again and had proper faith to begin with with and therefore were never saved. It takes the Holy Spirit to be saved, yes? I think we can all agree on that. A proper faith will always have repentance,works,dying bvb to self, and ultimately sanctification. If those things are absent from your life it's about time you started rethinking your faith. If all of those things are present in your life than have peace! You are saved and Hod has promised to give you a new body when he returns. We seek Jesus Christ as a way OUT of our sin problem not to remain living in sin forever.


The prodigal son returned home. If he had not returned, he would have been lost.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In a amall town Wed of Chicago called Ottawa. I went to a Christian Rock concert retreat, had never heard of baptism of the Spirit or that people speak in tongue, and hapoened that weekend, but because of how the Spirit changes you, and the tool of tongues, I thought it a great disservice that it isn't taught at all in Lutheran churches. And because it was pre-internet, the info was more hidden.
I grew up Lutheran too and feel the same way. Our Lutheran church was strictly against the baptism of the HS and speaking in tongues. Nice talking with you...please post more if you have time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Beanieboy
Upvote 0

Butterball1

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2020
688
121
59
Tennessee
✟32,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Instead of this being yet another thread out of billions on how you can or cannot lose your salvation, let's take a look at what would have to happen for you to lose your salvation. To answer that question we have to examine how a person is saved.


The bible also says that when a person comes to Christ and places their faith in him that they are a new creation (2 Corrinthians 5:17). For a born again Christian to lose their salvation God would have to somehow undo our new creation. Something that NO verse in the Bible says that God will do.

I have read that Paul used the prepositional phrase "in Christ" ("in Him") about 170 times. A few of them:

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

1 Corinthians 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

2 Timothy 2:1 "Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus."

2 Timothy 2:10 "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

Colossians 1:28 "Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"

Colossians 2:10 "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"

Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Being a Christian, salvation and everything associated with it (new creature) are CONDITIONALLY found nowhere but in Christ. Therefore as long as one is in Christ and conditionally remains in Christ then one has salvation and all the blessings associated with it. If one falls from Christ then he has fallen from the only place salvation and its blessing are found. The Bible does not teach it is impossible to fall away from Christ. When one falls from grace (Galatians 5:4; 2 Corinthians 6:1) he has fallen from Christ, fallen from the only place grace is found that being in Christ, 2 Timothy 2:1.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0

BBAS 64

Contributor
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2003
9,865
1,712
58
New England
✟489,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have read that Paul used the prepositional phrase "in Christ" ("in Him") about 170 times. A few of them:

2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

2 Corinthians 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

1 Corinthians 1:2 "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:"

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

2 Timothy 2:1 "Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus."

2 Timothy 2:10 "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."

Colossians 1:28 "Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"

Colossians 2:10 "And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:"

Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Being a Christian, salvation and everything associated with it (new creature) are CONDITIONALLY found nowhere but in Christ. Therefore as long as one is in Christ and conditionally remains in Christ then one has salvation and all the blessings associated with it. If one falls from Christ then he has fallen from the only place salvation and its blessing are found. The Bible does not teach it is impossible to fall away from Christ. When one falls from grace (Galatians 5:4; 2 Corinthians 6:1) he has fallen from Christ, fallen from the only place grace is found that being in Christ, 2 Timothy 2:1.

Good Day, BB

I do love the descriptive and prescriptive scripture you have posted here. The prepositions are so wonderful . The experiential realities are just so life changing.

The purposeful work of the Father in giving to the Son, is a condition that He alone fulfills in the giving for the purpose of being in Christ and never being lost., because of what the Father has done.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

In Him,

Bill
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0

BNR32FAN

He’s a Way of life
Site Supporter
Aug 11, 2017
22,402
7,335
Dallas
✟883,511.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The bible also says that when a person comes to Christ and places their faith in him that they are a new creation (2 Corrinthians 5:17). For a born again Christian to lose their salvation God would have to somehow undo our new creation. Something that NO verse in the Bible says that God will do.

The highlighted portion here is your assumption that is not supported by the scriptures. Paul made it absolutely clear in Ephesians 4 that even those who are “sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption” are capable of grieving the Spirit and continues into Ephesians 5 to explain to them that they can become sons of disobedience. Becoming a new creation enables us to walk in the Spirit it doesn’t force us to, otherwise no one would sin after receiving the Holy Spirit and it would be impossible for anyone to grieve Him. So God doesn’t have to undo anything in order for someone to fall from grace, we are perfectly capable of doing that on our own. If God had to undo our new creation then ultimately God would be the cause of our fall.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Dorothy Mae
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Butterball1

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2020
688
121
59
Tennessee
✟32,337.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

In Him,

Bill
Hello,

Yes, those who believe (John 6:35) are the ones God gives to Christ and as long as those believers continue to "cometh to Me" then Christ will not turn them away nor lose them.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hello,

Yes, those who believe (John 6:35) are the ones God gives to Christ and as long as those believers continue to "cometh to Me" then Christ will not turn them away nor lose them.
If they walk away from Christ, He lets them do so same as He let the 70 walk away.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothy Mae

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2018
5,657
1,017
Canton south of Germany
✟75,214.00
Country
Switzerland
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No one falls the the cracks in salvation. Also, Romans 8:35-39 is a good one for OP
Does God love people in hell? Are they then not separated from Him because not even hell separates them from God loving them? Sin, not listed in Romans 8, separates us from God, by the way. 1 Tim 4:1 is a good scripture about falling away from the faith (which is obviously then possible since it is described.)
Hello,

Yes, those who believe (John 6:35) are the ones God gives to Christ and as long as those believers continue to "cometh to Me" then Christ will not turn them away nor lose them.
Pretty big bummer for those people God doesn't decide to give to Christ. They are lost and can do nothing about it.

My point is making God the reason a man cannot make a decision that affects his eternity is not a compliment to God. Makes it out to be cruel as He is choosing some for hell and some for heaven in this kind of thinking. The scriptures where his heart is expressed as "whosoever will" making Man pivotal in his own destiny compliments the Father. God has done his part and continues doing His part in reaching each man, but each man has to do his own part as well. Man's part is vital but not sufficient.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums