Continuing to read the bible in eternity

SeventyOne said:

Isaiah 65:17 For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.

This wouldn't be able to be fulfilled if we are constantly reading about the former things.

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There is a New Heaven and a New Earth as mentioned in Isaiah 65:17, and there is another different New Heaven and New Earth as mentioned in Revelation. A comparison between these two will show you that they are not the same. So there are two New Earths and not just one. While I do not agree with Pastor Warren W. Wiersbe's view of salvation, he did help me to see that there are two New Earths. The New Earth in Isaiah 65:17 is referring to the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ and the New Earth mentioned in Revelation is in reference to the second Final New Earth that takes place after the Millennium, and the Judgment.

So the former things that will not be remembered by those people who live in the Millennium. But after the Millennium takes place, there will be the Judgment. At the Judgment, all things will be revealed. Luke 8:17 says, “For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.” So Isaiah 65:17 is not proof that the Holy Bible will not exist in some form upon the final New Earth after the Judgment.

Jamdoc said:

a guiding scripture on my thoughts on this matter is Jeremiah 31:31-34


But I've heard from some people that they believe we'll continue to read the bible as it is currently written in heaven and even after the restitution of all things in eternity.
It's always stood out as kind of a bizarre thought to me, because in the presence of God we'd be able to hear His words without the filter of human authors who were Inspired. It'd be direct, unfiltered. We'd no longer have to rely on 2000 year old (or older) written and translated scripture that doesn't directly address our questions.

So that makes me think about of what profit a lot of the bible would even still have in the age to come. After all, all prophecy would have been fulfilled. Would we just.. read it as historical books then? All the warnings about sin would no longer be relevant, as there would be no more sin. All the exhortations and commandments to preach the Gospel would no longer be relevant, as everyone in that age would already know and have accepted the Gospel, as those verses of Jeremiah 31 state, there won't be any preaching, because everyone will already know the Lord. The books of the law... we'd already know it all by heart since God will put them all in our inward parts. The book of the Song of Solomon is about a type of love between men and women that would no longer exist, of what relevance would it have to describe a physically intimate relationship that is no longer a thing?

it'd all be history that would not repeat

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Paul says the Law (the Old Law) is good if we use it lawfully (1 Timothy 1:8). So while we are not under the Old Law as a whole or contract, there are still many useful benefits to our faith in reading the Old Testament. The Old Testament reveals Jesus, and there are certain truths that help us to appreciate the New Testament all the more. Without knowing what has gone before, we would not really appreciate what we have now. I believe the Holy Bible will continue to exist on into eternity. While I do not know for sure, most likely the Word of God will not be a 66 book collection, but it will be an extended version of it (with all of God's words that the Lord felt was important for us to know that He shared throughout all of human history). I personally would like to read from the possible library that is larger than Earth that talks about the whole life of Jesus as hinted at in Scripture (See: John 21:25).

I believe the Bible will exist in some form or another because Jesus said, “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” (Matthew 24:35).

“For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.” (Psalms 119:89).

“The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.” (Isaiah 40:8).

In my experience with God's Word and being transformed by it: You don't minimize the Word of God, but you seek to magnify His Word. Why? Because God magnifieds His Word even above His own name.

“I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.” (Psalms 138:2).

Has the Word of God transformed your life?
Does not the Word of God excite you?
Do you not want to continually seek at telling others the Word of God like it is exploding to get out of you?

I believe these things are a natural part of abiding in the Living Word and the Communicated Word. Jesus says for us to abide in Him and His words.

The Symbiotic Relationship Between
The Living Word, & the Communicated Word:

1. Christ is good (John 10:11, John 10:14), and the word is good (1 Kings 2:42).
   
   
2. Christ is the truth (John 14:6), and the word is the truth (John 17:17).
   
   
3. Christ is called Faithful and True (Revelation 19:11), and the word is called faithful and true (Revelation 22:6).
   
   
4. Christ is pure (1 John 3:3), and the word is pure (Proverbs 30:5).
   
   
5. Christ is incorruptible (Acts of the Apostles 2:27), and the word is incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23).
   
   
6. Christ abides forever (John 12:34), and the word abides forever (1 Peter 1:23).
   
   
7. Christ’s name: “Jesus” is above all names (Which would include God’s name) (Philippians 2:9-10), and the word is above God’s name (Psalms 138:2).
   
   
8. Christ has flaming eyes of fire (Revelation 19:12), and the Word is like a fire (Jeremiah 23:29).
   
   
9. Christ can burn things like a fire (Matthew 3:12), and the word can burn things like a fire (Luke 24:32).
   
   
10. Christ can be eaten (John 6:57), and the word can be eaten (Jeremiah 15:16).
    
    
11. Christ is like the discovery of treasure (Matthew 13:44-46, cf. 2 Corinthians 4:7-10), and the word is like the discovery of treasure (Psalms 119:162).
    
    
12. Christ is the light (John 8:12), and the word is light (Psalms 119:105).
    
    
13. Christ is life (John 14:6, 1 John 5:12), and the word is life (John 6:63).
    
    
14. Christ is the living bread (John 6:51), and the word is the living bread (Matthew 4:4).
    
    
15. Christ is eternal life (Romans 6:23, 1 Timothy 6:16, 1 John 5:20) and the word is eternal life (John 6:68) (cf. Matthew 24:35, John 6:63).
    
    
16. Christ quickens (makes alive) (John 5:21), and the word quickens (makes alive) (Psalms 119:50).
    
    
17. It is by Christ which makes the gospel possible (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and it is by the word which makes the gospel possible (1 Peter 1:25).
    
    
18. Christ is near to men (Acts of the Apostles 17:27) (Revelation 3:20) (Psalms 145:18), and the word is near to men (Romans 10:8).
    
    
19. Christ discerns the heart (Matthew 9:4, Luke 9:47), and the word discerns the heart (Hebrews 4:12).
    
    
20. Christ can get men through a storm (Mark 4:35-41), and the word can get men through a storm (Matthew 7:24-25).
    
    
21. Christ sanctifies (John 17:19), and the word sanctifies (John 17:17).
    
    
22. A person can stumble over Christ (Romans 9:33, 1 Peter 2:5-8), and a person can stumble over the word (1 Peter 2:8).
    
    
23. Christ will judge men (John 5:22), and the word will judge men (John 12:48).
    
    
24. Christ’s bones were never broken (John 19:36 cf. Psalms 34:20), and the word is never broken (John 10:35).
    
    
25. Believers are told to seek after Christ (Matthew 28:5, Mark 16:6), and believers are told to seek after the word (Isaiah 34:16).
    
    
26. Christ is our hope (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Colossians 1:27, 1 Timothy 1:1), and the word is our hope (Psalms 130:5).
    
    
27. Believers are to have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), and believers are to meditate (use their mind) upon the word (Psalms 119:148, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV).
    
    
28. Christ is to be heard and obeyed (Matthew 7:24), and the word is to be heard and obeyed (James 1:22).
    
    
29. The love of God is within Christ (Romans 8:39), and keeping the word places the love of God within us (1 John 2:5) (Also see John 14:23).
    
    
30. Christ is the way to the living waters, which is the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39), and the washing of the water of the word (Ephesians 5:25-27) (which is obedience to God) is the way to having the Spirit (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
    
    
31. Christ is like the foundation that is a part of a house (1 Corinthians 3:9, 1 Corinthians 3:11), and He is like a rock (1 Corinthians 10:4), and the obeying the word is like a house built upon the rock (Matthew 7:24).
    
    
32. Believers are to follow after the steps of Christ (1 Peter 2:21), and believers are to order their steps in the word (Psalms 119:133).
    
    
33. Christ breathed the Spirit upon his faithful chosen (John 20:22), and the word is “inspired by God” (i.e. God breathed) for the benefit of his faithful chosen (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
34. Christ is the way to having the fruits of righteousness (Philippians 1:11), and the word is the way to being instructed in righteousness so to be perfect unto all good works (fruits) (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
    
    
35. Christ can abide in us (John 15:4-7) (Ephesians 3:17) (Philippians 4:13), and the word can abide in us (John 15:7, Psalms 119:11).
    
    
36. Christ dwells in our hearts (Ephesians 3:17), and the word dwells in our hearts (Colossians 3:16).
    
    
37. Believers can be hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3), and the word can be hidden in believers (Psalms 119:11).
    
    
38. Christ is always with us (Matthew 28:20), and the word is always with us (Psalms 119:98).
    
    
39. Christ can make our joy full (John 15:11), and the word can make our joy full (1 John 1:4).
    
    
40. Believers’ hearts rejoice with Christ (John 16:22), and believers’ hearts rejoice with the word (Jeremiah 15:16).

..41. Christ is called a seed (Galatians 3:16), and the word is called a seed (1 Peter 1:23, Luke 8:11) (Note: See my post below here for further details).


The communicated word of God that we have today is the Bible.


Jesus (the Living Word) was sent by the commandment (mouth) of the Father. Jesus said and did everything the Father told Him to do (John 12:49) (John 14:31).

What is interesting is that the Living Word accomplished that which the Father commanded Him to do and to prosper (accomplish) that thing He sent to do (i.e. Jesus suffered on the cross, and said, “It is finished” and died for man’s sins). Jesus was risen three days later, and ascended to the Father. God’s Word (the living Word) did not return void by whom the Father sent.

The communicated Word can also be sent out and not return void, as well. For many have believed and have stayed faithful to what God’s Word says.

In the creation: The Word made flesh (John 1:1, John 1:14) (i.e. Christ) created everything. In the beginning God spoke words to bring forth the creation in six days (Genesis 1:1-31).

So in the beginning was the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

In the end of this sinful world: Christ will return (Revelation 19:11-21) and a sharp sword will proceed from His mouth. This sword could be the “sword of the Spirit,” (Which is the Word of God) or it could be symbolic of such (Ephesians 6:17).

So in the end there will be the Living Word, and the communicated Word.

For at Christ’s return: His name is called The “Word of God.” (Revelation 19:13) (Living Word).

On His thigh, and vesture is a name written (words) “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.” (Communicated Word).

Jesus was beaten to a pulp and crucified on a tree.

The Word we have today (the Bible) is a result of pulp made from a tree.

Jesus was the Word made flesh (covered in skin).

The Word we have today (the Bible) is popular to be available covered in skin (leather).

Words on the page hang on this tree (paper) (the Bible),
just like the Living Word hung on a tree (the cross).

There are many today who want Jesus, but they don't want the Bible or they don't want to accept certain things in the Bible. For many: It is a holey book, and not a Holy Book. It reminds me of the story of the man of God who failed in obeying God's word and died for it in 1 Kings 13.

The idea that the Word of God will continue for eternity is not appealing to some. Is there something offensive in His Word that they do not like to be reminded of? For me: I am super excited to see His Word last for eternity because I love His Word and seek to place more and more of it on the inside of me. For the Bible are the very words of God and they express the mind of God. To keep His words and to know them is such a joy for my life.

I would encourage folks to check out this Christian movie trailer to see what I am talking about.


To learn more about the film, check out my CF thread here on it.

Play the Flute DVD (A must see Christian movie).

I don't think we will be reading the Bible in the sweet bye and bye. It will be written on our hearts.

DamianWarS said:

1 Cor 13:10-12
When completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

If you're a ceasationist then the perfect (the bible or the church) has already come and you know it all thus will continue to read the Bible for eternity. Otherwise this verse tells us "then" we will know fully and we can put away our bibles (as there will be no need for them) When is "then"? Ceasationist argument aside it's an undefined event but an eschatological event seems most likely.

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This suggests that we will always be children in this life. I do not believe this to be the case. Paul talks about how we should mature in the faith and move beyond the milk of the Word and on to the meat of the Word. The meat of the Word is to discern between good and evil. This is why I believe that the church was in it's infancy would grow and mature with the completion of the canon of Scripture.

Jamdoc said:

That isn't it at all.
what I'm talking about is what application is talking about sin in a new earth where there is no sin?
what application is exhortations to preach the gospel in a new earth where everyone already knows the Lord? There's nobody to preach to.
The bible is totally relevant to our life on this earth but once the restitution of all things happens so much changes that it loses a lot of application.

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Again, much like many things in the Old Testament Law of Moses is not relevant in a literal sense for the New Covenant believer today, yet on the other hand, there are still useful applications that we can gain from the Old Law (even though it does not apply anymore as a whole). The Old Laws are a shadow that pointed ahead to Jesus Christ. We can appreciate the differences of what we have in the New Covenant vs. looking at the Old Covenant. I imagine the New Covenant today will seem barbaric by comparison to how things will be in the New Earth, but that is kind of how we view the Old Covenant when we compare it to the New Covenant today. I think if we forgot that Jesus died for our sins on the cross (Which is the whole central focus of the New Testament writings), it will make us wonder why we are in God's Kingdom in the first place. I believe looking back at the commands God gave us will make us appreciate the struggles we went through to get to where we are now. Otherwise, why bother to live this life? God could just make us to be in His Kingdom now. Is God going to mind wipe us? Is He going to make us forget His Word? If so, why? His Word endures forever; And I believe that.

Folks can talk about biblioatry all they like, but no Christian I know actually bows down to a book and worships the book as if it is God. We know that the Bible is an expression of the mind of God. The Bible is not God Himself in it's entirety but it is one part of God in that it expresses some of His thoughts. To de-emphasize the importance of God's Word (the Bible) is to lobotomize God. It's not right. But folks are free to try and erase what God has written even though His Word says it will endure forever.

There is a reason why folks think this way about God's Word.
Did the Bible really transform your life?
Is the Bible key to following God's will for your life today?
Can you not read the Bible and not feel deprived of it's nourishment?
Do you believe there are other sources that are on equal authority with God's Word? Do you dislike it when Christians love God's Word?

God is spirit. Yes, this is true.
But how did we know that?
The Bible tells us so, and not some outside odd source.

Bible Highlighter said:

This suggests that we will always be children in this life.

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Relative to life in heaven, yes.

DamianWarS said:

Relative to life in heaven, yes.

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But if you read the next chapter (1 Corinthians 14), the point Paul was trying to make in not being like a child who babbles with nobody understanding, but one needed to have an interpreter present in order to help give understanding and meaning to the foreign tongues spoken. So the context Paul wanted to make in 1 Corinthians 13 was leading up to his point in 1 Corinthians 14. He is saying that tongues will pass away when the perfect comes. This implies in this life because obviously Paul did not want the Corinthians to remain as children by speaking in tongues without an interpreter.

Jamdoc said:

The reasons to read the old testament are to be admonished as to what happens to people when they sin, and to see the need for Jesus Christ and the New Testament, that man cannot obey the law on his own, and to show that Jesus was foretold thousands of years before He'd be born, so that you can trust the bible because it delivers on its promises through fulfilled prophecy. Plus the moral law is still applicable, it's not like God decided Adultery was okay after the New Covenant it's just the instead of being codified as a specific act, and you just don't do it because it was written down not to do it as the Pharisees did, but rather that the spirit of why the law was given was because it was unloving to your spouse to cheat on her, or unloving to your neighbor to have his wife cheat on him with you. Under the New Testament if you let love guide you you'll obey the old testament moral laws all on your own it's second nature, and I mean second nature quite literally because we still combat the first nature which is our sin nature which does not love others.

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Sorry, I am not buying that we just do our own thing without making the New Testament a part of our life. There are lots of people who operate outside of the Bible, and they think they are doing good, too. The only way we can truly know for sure if we are following God correctly is by seeing if we are aligning our lives correctly with the Spirit inspired New Testament Scriptures. To not adhere to them is to rebel against the faith because faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). The Bible is the Word of God that we heard when we first got saved. We heard about the gospel from the Bible, and we continue in the faith of applying God's Word (the Bible) to our life. If we just run off and do our own thing, we are just doing exactly that. We may think we are in line with God, but we are not if we are not putting God's Word (the Bible) on the inside of us.

A person may think baking cookies is the way to love your neighbor, but that may not be exactly what God desires exactly in what He wants you to do as a part of what His Word actually says. We have to follow God's will. The Bible is about having a relationship with GOD, and the way we can have an assurance that we know the LORD is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). How do we know of His commandments? Do we just run off and just make them up? Surely not. We get them from Jesus and His followers in the New Testament.

You said:

In eternity, it's promised that sin and death will be no more, which means we won't have that first nature anymore.

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Have you ever read Galatians 5:24 before? How about 2 Corinthians 7:1?

You said:

So all the scripture about sin will be kind of superfluous, do you know what I mean?

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The Word of God has many applications and meanings to it. There are many levels to the Word of God.
The Messianic prophecies is just one example of how Scripture can have a double meaning.

You said:

So it'd mostly just be a history book.

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I think it would be a book about a reminder of how we value our Lord Jesus Christ.
No believer could be in His kingdom without His sacrifice.
The Bible is a book of God being our Savior.
Reflecting back on how God saved us would give us more reasons to praise Him and give honor, and love to Him for all eternity. That is why I believe the Bible in some form would still remain into all eternity. For the moment you cut away the Bible from their minds, the saints would no longer truly remember why they are in God's kingdom. They would not know why Jesus saves, and the sacrifice He made for us. God could just skip to the end right now and mind wipe people. But I don't think God is going to do that. God magnifies His Word above His own name. The Bible is the very expressed thoughts of God. It is an expression of His mind to us. God's words would not be irrelevant. They still will always have some kind of use or benefit for His people for all eternity (even if there was no more sin).

Bible Highlighter said:

But if you read the next chapter (1 Corinthians 14), the point Paul was trying to make in not being like a child who babbles with nobody understanding, but one needed to have an interpreter present in order to help give understanding and meaning to the foreign tongues spoken. So the context Paul wanted to make in 1 Corinthians 13 was leading up to his point in 1 Corinthians 14. He is saying that tongues will pass away when the perfect comes. This implies in this life because obviously Paul did not want the Corinthians to remain as children by speaking in tongues without an interpreter.

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When did this discussion turn into tongues? Tongues is certainly not my point. Perhaps you should start your own thread regarding digressed topics.

DamianWarS said:

When did this discussion turn into tongues? Tongues is certainly not my point. Perhaps you should start your own thread regarding digressed topics.

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I was merely bringing it up as a point about the perfect being the complete canon of Scripture and the church maturing by this happening. The context supports the idea that the church will mature here in this life and it is not exclusively the next life only.

Jamdoc said:

Jesus uses the example of giving a cool cup of water to someone as an example of something that is rewarded, so I wouldn't say that baking someone cookies is NOT a way to love your neighbor.

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Water is essential to live. Cookies could not be good for certain people; Especially if they are a diabetic and they struggle with eating sweet things.

You said:

My point was that Jesus boiled down all the law into loving God and loving others.
Rather than using God's commandments as a checklist "okay I didn't commit adultery today, I'm good" even though you THOUGT lustful things about some other man's wife.. no, you're not good. If you really loved your neighbor and his wife, you wouldn't lust after her. That's what I meant. Paul taught as much as well which is why we have liberty in Christ, that you're no longer operating on a checklist of ordinances but rather being guided by the Holy Spirit and love.. instead of "I'd better not eat this ham sandwich because it contains pork" you can eat the ham sandwich with thanksgiving, and if there's a brother who still feels like he can't eat pork, you'd not eat pork around them to avoid being a stumbling block to a brother that Christ died for. It's a bit more of a finesse thing rather than just a check off list.

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There are commands that we really would not know about if we did not read God's Word. Some Christians here on the forum have said that inappropriate content is not a sin or something that will condemn a person. They obviously do not read and or understand God's Word and they can say the same thing in that we should just love one another, too. So their version of love is not the same as the person who reads and understands what God's Word says. You need the Word. Without it, you would be up the creek without a paddle. If Jesus thought in the way that you did, then He would not have ever said the words He did in Matthew 19:17-19. If things are as you say, then Paul would not have bothered to warn how the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God with him listing a check list of certain sins for us not to do. So yeah, I am going with the Bible on this one and not what you are saying.

You said:

Yes I've read the whole bible.

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It's more than just reading the Bible.
I remember one my family members told me that she read the Bible, but I knew she was not transformed by reading it. There was no spark or fire for God in her eyes as she talked about God's Word. Those who look at the Bible as just sort of helpful, don't really get it - IMO. The Bible has to be your lifeline and your go to every day. Without the Bible, we would perish. The Bible has to be a living and active thing for the believer.

You said:

What I read today was Philippians which has Philippians 1:6.
That is, we are being sanctified over time, it is a process, it is not instantaneous, and it will not be finished until the day Jesus comes back. Justification is instantaneous, sanctification takes maturity.

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I agree with these truths in God's Word indeed.
The difference between us is that you appear to not hold the Word in the same regard as I do.
1 Kings 13 involving the Man of God who died should be a sobering wake up call to all believers today.

You said:

You don't think you're already perfect, do you?

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It's not about me. It's about Jesus Christ and letting His light shine among the whole body of believers and uplifting the Lord and His good ways.

You said:

To some degree, but when all that prophecy is fulfilled and we see Jesus face to face as He is.. I think it'll become superfluous because we have the Living God in front of us, rather than just reading scripture about Him.

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There definitely will be a change in our relationship with the Lord, but I believe God's Word when it says it will endure forever in many places. This again is the difference between me and you.

You said:

I am hoping that forgiving sin will not be our end all and be all of what we are thankful to God for, I am very much hoping that God is not going to simply rest on His laurels and bask in praise forever for what He did over a period of a few thousand years. Honestly, I expect forgiveness of sin to be a footnote in the ways that God will work through our lives forever that we'll be thankful for.

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This is a wrong mentality to have in being a believer saved by His grace. We do not deserve anything. We actually sinned against God, and He died in our place so as to pay the price. There is not enough praise and thanks we could ever give to the Lord. Doing so for all eternity for what He has done for us is not even a small price to pay. It would just be a natural outflow of a thankful and grateful heart changed by God and His grace.

You said:

If God has removed our sin from us as far as the east is from the west, and has forgotten our sin, why should we dwell on it in perfection?

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The Bible does not mention your sins. It is God's testimony of His Son Jesus Christ who died for our sins. The whole Bible is about Jesus Christ. To eliminate His Word is to eliminate the redemption of Jesus. To be forgetful of His redemption would be highly unlikely. It would destroy the whole point of the faith we live today.