Joe Biden proposals for banning some firearms, high capacity magazines, immunity changes

tall73

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Can you give me an example of what you see as undercutting it?

You already addressed one such, the idea of holding manufacturers responsible for buyer's actions. That would essentially put the manufacturers out of business. It is a way around changing the amendment.
 
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tall73

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I agree that these are things we should treat as a moral responsibility. I disagree that these are things that can not be taken away even as a moral idea. There have been many cases throughout history of people no longer considering others worthy of protection.

People not considering people worthy of protection is against the vast majority of moral systems throughout time. You can debate whether there should be any morality, or what is the basis of ethics, but not killing people is about as close to recognizing a right as we can get. It doesn't mean it will always be respected.

An interesting thought, though I think it would need to be expanded. I can see a case for a right to self defense but that is a far cry from what most who support the second amendment assert. You certainly do not need an AR to defend yourself. In fact I can think of many other weapons that would be better suited to that task.

I agree that people get too caught up in the details without discussing the over arching concern.

For instance, many places prohibit knives, clubs, even pepper spray in some instances, but allow for various firearms. To me that is a strange application of the right to self-defense.

A large part of the problem I see is that people become so black and white in their thinking they refuse to discuss the ideas behind their stances. I, for example, am pro second amendment and own several firearms. I still think we should have reasonable gun control and favor measures such as bio keyed locking devices to reduce the damage that weapons can produce. That stance has me labeled as a "Gun grabber" by some even though that is not even close to my stance.

I own only one firearm that I have not shot in decades. It resides in the gun safe of a relative in a different location. It is an heirloom from my grandmother, a single shot bolt action .22 that I learned to shoot with.

My family has talked over whether we would want to defend ourselves with force, or would rather die than kill someone. We tend to fall in the latter category, though I still do not consider self defense immoral. And in a number of rural contexts it can be a very useful item.
 
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tall73

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The 1994 Assault Weapons ban spelled out some specific guns that were banned, as well as other categories. For instance:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-103hr3355enr/pdf/BILLS-103hr3355enr.pdf

semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of—‘‘(i) a folding or telescoping stock;‘‘(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;‘‘(iii) a bayonet mount;‘‘(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and‘‘(v) a grenade launcher;‘


This is why some indicate that the restrictions were more cosmetic than substantive. Manufacturers could just remove a feature and still sell existing models.


 
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Erik Nelson

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Vylo

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All parts of the constitution can be up for debate, it's a document written in ink not holy writ carved in stone.
I mean, that's fine, but then you want a change to an amendment. Making laws that violate the constitution should not be encouraged, especially to one of our basic rights. There are avenues built into our constitution to change it, making laws that fly in the face of it is not one of them.
 
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Desk trauma

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I mean, that's fine, but then you want a change to an amendment. Making laws that violate the constitution should not be encouraged, especially to one of our basic rights. There are avenues built into our constitution to change it, making laws that fly in the face of it is not one of them.
I agree, but that's not what I was replying to. I was replying to the pearl clutching over discussing changing something in the constitution. As I said the deification of the founders and the transformation of their works into things that cannot be improved on is a detriment to good government as it drags woo woo into discussions of how best to do that.
 
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Erik Nelson

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deification of the founders...
what about demonizing them?

can't claim you're trying to "improve upon" them if you denounce them as thoroughly evil so as to cancel them

can't claim they "got your first down yardage" if you're trying to sack them and run the other way
 
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Desk trauma

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what about demonizing them?

can't claim you're trying to "improve upon" them if you denounce them as thoroughly evil so as to cancel them

can't claim they "got your first down yardage" if you're trying to sack them and run the other way
What on earth are you talking about? None of that is related to a single word I posted.
 
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Nine of Spades

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Statement by the President Three Years After the Parkland Shooting | The White House

This Administration will not wait for the next mass shooting to heed that call. We will take action to end our epidemic of gun violence and make our schools and communities safer. Today, I am calling on Congress to enact commonsense gun law reforms, including requiring background checks on all gun sales, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and eliminating immunity for gun manufacturers who knowingly put weapons of war on our streets. We owe it to all those we’ve lost and to all those left behind to grieve to make a change. The time to act is now.


If the US government tries to restrict our Second Amendment rights, what is to stop them from restricting our First Amendment rights in the future? If they take our guns away today, then years from now they will take away our free speech. Less government is always better; it prevents tyranny and human rights abuses.
 
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A2SG

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If the US government tries to restrict our Second Amendment rights, what is to stop them from restricting our First Amendment rights in the future? If they take our guns away today, then years from now they will take away our free speech. Less government is always better; it prevents tyranny and human rights abuses.

Good thing the government isn't taking your guns away, then

As to restrictions, that's fully in keeping with the second amendment, the part about a "well-regulated militia."

-- A2SG, you are part of a militia, right?
 
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Nine of Spades

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Good thing the government isn't taking your guns away, then

As to restrictions, that's fully in keeping with the second amendment, the part about a "well-regulated militia."

-- A2SG, you are part of a militia, right?

The Democrats will stop at nothing to take our guns away. If it weren’t for the Republicans to provide a balance of political power, the Dems would have abolished the Second Amendment a long time ago. Don’t you get it?
 
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wing2000

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The Democrats will stop at nothing to take our guns away. If it weren’t for the Republicans to provide a balance of political power, the Dems would have abolished the Second Amendment a long time ago. Don’t you get it?

I don't see any evidence of your accusation.
 
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A2SG

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The Democrats will stop at nothing to take our guns away.

And yet, they haven't even tried to. Ever.

If it weren’t for the Republicans to provide a balance of political power, the Dems would have abolished the Second Amendment a long time ago. Don’t you get it?

When have they ever tried to?

Please cite any attempt to do so, even one single attempt.

-- A2SG, if you're reading their minds about what they want to do, feel free to answer telepathically.....
 
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Tanj

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Agreed.



Yes, here is a rundown on the AR-15.

The AR in “AR-15” rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s.

AR-15-style rifles look like military rifles, such as the M-16, but function like other semi-automatic civilian sporting firearms, firing only one round with each pull of the trigger.


Since the 19th century, civilian sporting rifles have evolved from their military predecessors. The modern sporting rifle simply follows that tradition.

These rifles’ accuracy, reliability, ruggedness and versatility serve target shooters and hunters well. They are true all-weather firearms.

Chamberings include .22, .223 (5.56 x 45mm), 6.8 SPC, .308, .450 Bushmaster and about a dozen others. Upper receivers for pistol calibers such as 9 mm, .40, and .45 are available. There are even .410 shotgun versions.

These rifles are used for many different types of hunting, from varmint to big game. And they’re used for target shooting in the national matches.


Modern Sporting Rifle - AR-15 platform-based rifles


timeline.png

So the section at the bottom there, "popular for varmint and big game hunting"

So lions and mice. That's what the gun is used for.
 
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Pommer

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So the section at the bottom there, "popular for varmint and big game hunting"

So lions and mice. That's what the gun is used for.
It’s been proven effective against primates, too.
 
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stevil

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The Democrats will stop at nothing to take our guns away. If it weren’t for the Republicans to provide a balance of political power, the Dems would have abolished the Second Amendment a long time ago. Don’t you get it?
Do you have any references or links or youtube clips of Democrats promoting taking away all guns from citizens of USA?
 
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98cwitr

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The Democrats will stop at nothing to take our guns away. If it weren’t for the Republicans to provide a balance of political power, the Dems would have abolished the Second Amendment a long time ago. Don’t you get it?

If the real notion is to "stop gun violence" then logic and reason suggest that the only way to ultimately achieve this is to ban all guns outright. Logic and reason also suggest that this will do little to nothing to actually stop violence, because banning a tool doesn't even being to address the underlying root causes of violence.

Any argument to the contrary is disengenious, and I wouldn't expect any of the opposition to reveal their true motivations until their goals have actually been achieved.
 
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Speedwell

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If the real notion is to "stop gun violence" then logic and reason suggest that the only way to ultimately achieve this is to ban all guns outright. Logic and reason also suggest that this will do little to nothing to actually stop violence, because banning a tool doesn't even being to address the underlying root causes of violence.

Any argument to the contrary is disengenious, and I wouldn't expect any of the opposition to reveal their true motivations until their goals have actually been achieved.
So it's a secret plan to take our guns away and the reason there is no evidence of it is that it is secret. Yeah.
 
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