Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus speaking to Christians

Douggg

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The way those verses (21-29) are written, KJV, it is talking "about" the house of Israel. It is not talking "to" the house of Israel. It is Jesus speaking, but to Christians of what is going to happen.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon. Corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

So...

Ezekiel 39 is the infallible timeline "framework" for the end times timeline.

Gog/Magog. Then 7 years. Then Armageddon.
 

keras

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I agree that the prophecy in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is about the Lord's faithful Christian peoples. THEY will be the occupants of all the holy Land at that time and during the Millennium.

But your idea that Ezekiel 39:17-20 is Armageddon, which happens at the Return of Jesus, Revelation 19:17-20, is wrong.
Those 2 'battles' have similarities, but are plainly not the same event.
The Gog/Magog armies come from the north; Ezekiel 38:1-6
The Armageddon armies come from the East and worldwide. Revelation 16:12-14
 
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DavidPT

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The way those verses (21-29) are written, KJV, it is talking "about" the house of Israel. It is not talking "to" the house of Israel. It is Jesus speaking, but to Christians of what is going to happen.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon. Corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

So...

Ezekiel 39 is the infallible timeline "framework" for the end times timeline.

Gog/Magog. Then 7 years. Then Armageddon.


There are not 2 different battles in ch 39 separated by 7 years. There is only 1 battle in that ch. That apparently means the Gog/Magog battle and Armageddon are one and the same. There is not a single mention in all of the NT where anyone is burning weapons after a battle for 7 years in the end of this age prior to the 2nd coming.

Where this burning of weapons apparently fit is during the following period of time.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
 
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Douggg

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Where this burning of weapons apparently fit is during the following period of time.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
Isaiah 2:4 is a result of and after Jesus returns.

Jesus returns to end the great tribulation.

Gog/Magog, however, takes place when Israel is in a state of relevant peace - not in great tribulation.

Therefore, two great destructions. Gog/Magog, then 7 years later at the end of the great tribulation, Armageddon.
 
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Douggg

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I agree that the prophecy in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is about the Lord's faithful Christian peoples.
No, Jesus is not talking about the church in those verses. Jesus is talking to the church about the house of Israel, in Ezekiel 39:21-29.

All through the text, Jesus is talking about "them" - the house of Israel. The house of Israel, who rejected him 2000 years ago, and thus were taken captive into the nations. Who presently do not know (believe) that Jesus is the Lord their God.

Obviously verse 23 is not talking about the church, or the Lord's faithful Christian peoples as you call them. The house of Israel in those verses is the current unbelieving Jews.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
 
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keras

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Obviously verse 23 is not talking about the church, or the Lord's faithful Christian peoples as you call them. The house of Israel in those verses is the current unbelieving Jews.
Over 20 clearly stated prophesies tell us about the virtual demise of the current State of Israel, which is a Satanic entity that the Lord will destroy on His Day of fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14. +

We Christians ARE the Israelites of God; the Overcomers for Him.
 
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The way those verses (21-29) are written, KJV, it is talking "about" the house of Israel. It is not talking "to" the house of Israel. It is Jesus speaking, but to Christians of what is going to happen.

Ezekiel 39:17-20 Armageddon. Corresponding to Revelation 19:17-18.

So...

Ezekiel 39 is the infallible timeline "framework" for the end times timeline.

Gog/Magog. Then 7 years. Then Armageddon.

The first verse:

Ezekiel 39:1 (KJV) Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal​

Magog, Meshech and Tubal were all grandsons of Noah.

Genesis 10:2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
These men settled in the north of what is known as "the east". Per The Histories of Herodotus by George Rawlinson, page 530:

"The Moschi and Tibareni, always coupled together by Herodotus, and constantly associated under the names of Muskai and Tuplai in the Assyrian inscriptions (just as Meshech and Tubal are in scriptures), can scarely fail to belong to one and the same ethnic family; so that if we can succeed in distinctly referring either of them to a particular branch, we may assume the same of the other. Now the Muskai are regarded on very sufficient grounds as the ancestors of the Muscovites, who built Moscow, and who still give name to Russia throughout the East."​

Meshech -> Muscovites -> Moscow, Russia
Tubal -> Tobolsk
Magog -> Scythia -> Serbia​

The chief prince referred to in verse 1 is the prince of Rosh. Russia.

Ezekiel 39:1 (NKJV) “And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, [a]the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal;
a: Tg., Vg., Aquila the chief prince of Meshech

Bible Gateway commentary:

That “the Prince of Rosh” is Asiatic Russia receives confirmation from the Imperial Dictionary. “Evidence exists of an ancient people called Rosh, or Rhos, supposed to be the original stem from which the Russia or modern Russians have derived their race and name.”
Matthew Henry's Commentary (1960), page 1074:

"The critical expositors have enough to do here to enquire about Gog and Magog. Some think they find them afar off, in Scythia, Tartary and Russia. Others think they find them nearer the land of Israel, in Syria and Asia the Less. Ezekiel is appointed to prophesy against Gog and to tell him that God is against him (verses 2, 3). The confusion which God designed to put this enemy to. It is remarkable that this is put first in the prophecy; before it is foretold that God will bring him forth against Israel. it is foretold that God will put hooks into his [Gog/Magog] jaws and turn him back (verse 4)."
This would point to Russia rising up against Israel, but failing. A precursor event to the second coming.

Speaking of the second coming...

I believe that Ezekiel 39:17-20 and Revelation 19:17-18 are indeed talking about the same event; a battle at the end of time, when they see Jesus coming in the clouds (i.e. this isn't limited to Israel). It will be a world-wide event at the second coming, where the powers of the earth try to wage a futile battle against Jesus who arrives in the clouds. They die by the sword (word of God; a shout; the voice of the archangel, the trump of God) and become a feast for the birds of the earth. Verses 18-19 gives us world-wide context:

Revelation 19:17-19 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great. And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
This last-ditch effort to defy God shows the how irredeemable the wicked of the end time are. They would rather fight against God to protect their world of sin than accept His free gift of eternal life in paradise.

Revelation 20 goes on to describe the events after the thousand year reign of Christ, where judgment takes place after yet another battle that Satan tries to bring against the New Jerusalem.
 
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Douggg

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Over 20 clearly stated prophesies tell us about the virtual demise of the current State of Israel, which is a Satanic entity that the Lord will destroy on His Day of fiery wrath. Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 12:14. +

We Christians ARE the Israelites of God; the Overcomers for Him.
Keras, are you reading Ezekiel 39:23? The house of Israel is not the church. Christians collectively are the church.

Look at the verse, what Jesus is saying about the house of Israel.... they went into captivity for their iniquity - that is not talking about the church.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
 
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Timtofly

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Isaiah 2:4 is a result of and after Jesus returns.

Jesus returns to end the great tribulation.

Gog/Magog, however, takes place when Israel is in a state of relevant peace - not in great tribulation.

Therefore, two great destructions. Gog/Magog, then 7 years later at the end of the great tribulation, Armageddon.
To end the tribulation, or to just finish the final harvest started in the first 6 Trumpets? There is a big difference. The Lamb was already on earth, because only the Lamb can open the Seals and only the Lamb as the Lord of the harvest can harvest the field during the final harvest. Armageddon is not the final harvest. Armageddon is the destruction of those who destroyed the field. Revelation 12 and 13 point out Satan only gets 42 months. It has an end determined before it starts, if it starts at all. There could be just a week of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet, then Revelation 14 and the treading of the winepress and then the Millennium starts without a 42 months interruption. Daniel says a week is affected,

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Many interpret this as the first century. Yet John in Revelation 12 and 13 has the 7th Trumpet for a few days, not a few years. This 7th Trumpet week is when the 42 month desolation is allowed.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The consummation is the battle of Armageddon at the end of the 42 months.

The 7th Trumpet is the confirmation:

5 Then the angel I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted his right hand toward heaven
6 and swore by the One who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it: “There will be no more delay;
7 on the contrary, in the days of the sound from the seventh angel when he sounds his shofar, the hidden plan of God will be brought to completion, the Good News as he proclaimed it to his servants the prophets.”

The 7th Trumpet is the completion and confirmation that it is over. The Covenant has come to finality. The church gathered out of Adam's descendants is over. The Atonement is complete. The harvest is complete. There is nothing more to accomplish in a world where sin is present.

Then Satan may be granted a 42 month stay of execution. Revelation 20:4 deals with those who reject Satan to his face. The battle of Armageddon deals with those who follow Satan. This is separate from the Nations coming against Israel at any time in history, even at any moment. And is separate from a Nation event 1000 years from now.

Yes, the last set of years saw the end to the OT (Law of Moses) Covenant. The 70th set of years is the earthly ministry of Jesus. It was split between the first century and now, to allow for the time of the Gentiles to enter the church. The church is not the time of desolation. The church covers the fact there are no more daily sacrifices. This 70th week is not specifically addressed to any time frame of years or days. The earthly ministry of the Lamb is the 7 years. The time of desolation is Satan’s 42 months if it interrupts the week of the 7th Trumpet.
 
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DavidPT

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Isaiah 2:4 is a result of and after Jesus returns.

Jesus returns to end the great tribulation.

Gog/Magog, however, takes place when Israel is in a state of relevant peace - not in great tribulation.

Therefore, two great destructions. Gog/Magog, then 7 years later at the end of the great tribulation, Armageddon.


At least we are in agreement about when Isaiah 2:4 is meaning. Per my view the beginning of the burning of weapons start in the beginning of the thousand years, and not something that takes place during an alleged 7 year tribulation period.
 
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keras

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Keras, are you reading Ezekiel 39:23? The house of Israel is not the church. Christians collectively are the church.

Look at the verse, what Jesus is saying about the house of Israel.... they went into captivity for their iniquity - that is not talking about the church.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
You know that the Jewish people are the House of Judah. The House of Israel remains scattered among the nations.
It is those people who have lost the knowledge of their true identity, but have mainly; become Christian and are the Israelites of God.
Proved by how we Christians are the recipients of God Promises thru Jesus.

The whole idea of a Jewish redemption is a false teaching and is never stated in the Bible.
 
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keras

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At least we are in agreement about when Isaiah 2:4 is meaning. Per my view the beginning of the burning of weapons start in the beginning of the thousand years, and not something that takes place during an alleged 7 year tribulation period.
Isaiah 2:4 refers to the Millennium period and has nothing to do with the Gog/Magog attack. Their weapons and bones will be all cleaned up before Jesus Returns.
 
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DavidPT

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Their weapons and bones will be all cleaned up before Jesus Returns.

How is one to make sense of that, though? According to Revelation 19, Jesus is the one that does battle with them, then they end up as bird food. How can anything in Revelation 19 happen without Christ returning first?

Maybe you are mistaken like Douggg is, thinking that there are two different battles going on in Ezekiel 39? There are not two battles, there is only one, and it is meaning when Christ confronts the beast and it's armies. That means the 7 years burning of weapons has to mean post the 2nd coming, that's the only place it appears to fit.
 
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Douggg

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At least we are in agreement about when Isaiah 2:4 is meaning. Per my view the beginning of the burning of weapons start in the beginning of the thousand years, and not something that takes place during an alleged 7 year tribulation period.
The burning of the weapons instead of the wood, including during the time of the great tribulation (1335 days long) because some of the trumpet judgements destroy many of the trees, for 7 years corresponds to the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

The burning of the weapons, which imo, is the burning of the diesel fuel found in those mechanized weapons for heating and cooking will be by the Jews during the time of the Antichrist>beast.

There will be two destructions related to that 7 years. The first being the destruction of Gog's army which attacks Israel while she is in a state of relevant peace according to Ezekiel 38. Not while she is experiencing the great tribulation, initiated when the abomination of desolation is setup on the temple mount.

The second destruction is Armageddon, when Jesus returns to set his glory among the nations - i.e. returns to this earth. Jesus returns to end the great tribulation. Destroying the abomination of desolation image that initiated it.



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Douggg

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You know that the Jewish people are the House of Judah. The House of Israel remains scattered among the nations.
It is those people who have lost the knowledge of their true identity, but have mainly; become Christian and are the Israelites of God.
Proved by how we Christians are the recipients of God Promises thru Jesus.

The whole idea of a Jewish redemption is a false teaching and is never stated in the Bible.
The church is not the house of Israel.

Were your ancestors rescued in the days of Uzziah, king of Judah? Note in those verses, the Lord is speaking "to" the Jews, i.e. using the pronoun "you" (ye). Differently, in Ezekiel 39:21-29, Jesus is speaking "about" the Jews, the house of Israel, i.e. using the pronoun "them".

Jesus in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is speaking to the church letting us know what is going to happen regarding the Jews.

Zechariah 13:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Redemption to Christians is redemption of the soul and body - i.e. salvation. Differently, redemption to Jews, they will inform you is gathering of all the Jews back to the land of Israel, which the phrase they use for that is "the final redemption". The final redemption as in Jewish way of thinking about redemption, Jesus indicates in Ezekiel 39:28.
 
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Douggg

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To end the tribulation, or to just finish the final harvest started in the first 6 Trumpets?
Jesus returns to end the great tribulation, and destroy the abomination of desolation image that triggers the great tribulation (Matthew 24:15-21).


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keras

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How is one to make sense of that, though? According to Revelation 19, Jesus is the one that does battle with them, then they end up as bird food. How can anything in Revelation 19 happen without Christ returning first?
The G/M attack of Ezekiel 38 to 39:1-20, is years before Armageddon and the Return of Jesus.
Different attacks and different results.
The church is not the house of Israel.
Your opinion. Bible truth proves you wrong.
Explain who it was that Jesus came to save; Matthew 15:25, and who produce's the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43
Jesus in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is speaking to the church letting us know what is going to happen regarding the Jews.
Ezekiel 39:21-29, is telling we Christians how the Lord will bless us in the holy Land. Only a remnant of the House of Judah will join us. Jeremiah 12:14-16, Jeremiah 50:4-5
 
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Douggg

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keras

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Yes. Ancient Israel are our ancestors; literally and spiritually. Galatians 3:26-29

I will answer my question in #17.
Jesus came to save the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He WAS successful and we Christians are the result. WE produce the fruit of evangelism and worldwide missions.
The Kingdom is our heritage.

The Jews continue in apostasy and rejection of Jesus. they will die for it. Isaiah 22:14
 
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Douggg

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Yes. Ancient Israel are our ancestors; literally and spiritually. Galatians 3:26-29
The church went into captivity for it's iniquity? Where is it talking about iniquity in those verses in Galatians? The issue is the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity. The church can't possibly be the house of Israel.

Ezekiel 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
 
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