Jesus The Sin-Offering for the Human Race

Minister Monardo said:

Hypocrites are Christians who say, but do not do. I have worked with plenty of Christians in
ministry, and not one thought they were working to be saved, they believed they were doing
their duty. Hypocrites do little, and use the "I am already saved, so I am not going to work
for it" as an excuse, and lose the one talent they were given. Might as well hand it over.

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Dave L said:

Hypocrite = actor. Many think that by acting as real Christians do, God will save them. But it is hypocrisy in its purest form.

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Minister Monardo said:

I am aware of the etymology of the word. A word origin is not a definition.
Here is how Jesus used the word.
Matthew 23:
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,
2 saying: The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do,
but do not do according to their works;
for they say, and do not do.

The issue with the "most Christian" comments that some make on this forum place them
in need to consider themselves. Romans 2:1

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In-Christ-Alone said:

“Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the sin-offering for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2)

Who does John mean by the “our”? There can be no doubt from this Letter, that it is addressed to all Christians, both Jews and Gentiles. There is no indication anywhere, that John wrote this Letter only to Jewish believers, as some argue. There are many verses that are clear, that every true believer is being addressed in 1 John.

Here we have “our”, the entire Christian community, contrasted with “ολου του κοσμου”, the whole world. True believers, with non believers. The saved, with the unsaved. The two classes in this world. Either a person is with Jesus Christ, and truly saved, or they are against Jesus Christ, and they are truly lost. There is no way that this can be limited in any way, to mean “a few”, or even “the many”, in the world. If, as we have seen, that the “our” means born-again believers, then the “ἀλλά”, “but”, as used in “contrast”; referring to “the whole world”, is that which is outside of these Christians, and refers to the lost world of sinners. This is further seen in the use of the same words, in the fifth chapter of this Letter. In verse 19 we read, “We know that we are of God, and the whole world (ο κοσμος ολος) lies in the evil one”. Here we have the contrast again, “we are of God”, which can only refer to the truly born again believer. In verse 18 these are referred to as, “born of God”, impossible to refer to any unsaved person. Then we have the same phrase used in 2:2, “the whole world”, which can only mean, as this passage shows, unsaved, as they are said to “lie in the evil one”, that is, in his power. If, as some would argue for, the “our” in 2:2, as referring to Jewish believers, and “the whole world”, to the Gentile believers. Then, are we to suppose, that the “our” in 2:2, being the same as the “we” in 5:19, as Jewish Christian, who are “of God”; that the Gentile Christains, who are “the whole world”, are “in the power of the devil”? There is no reason why “the whole world” should be any different in both these places in this Letter of John, other than for “theology”!

What does John mean by “ιλασμος” in 2:2? Some Bible versions chose the word “propitiation”, which means, “appeasement, conciliation”, also “A propitiatory gift, offering, or sacrifice” (Oxford).

In Ezekiel 44:27, the Hebrew has, “he shall offer his sin-offering (חטּאה), declares the Lord GOD”. And the LXX, “they shall bring a propitiation (ιλασμον), saith the Lord God. In the NT, the Greek “ιλασμος”, late substantive from “ιλασκομα”, is also used for “merciful”, where it is used in Luke 18:13, “God be merciful to me a sinner”. Here neither the meanings “propitiate”, or “sin-offering”, would do. In Romans 3:25, Paul writes, “whom God set forth ιλαστηριον ”. “set forth” (προτίθεμαι), here has the meaning, “offered, provided”. “ἱλαστήριος”, meaning “the Mercy Seat”, from where the “sin offering” comes.

“it answers in Septuagint to Hebrew kaapar, to effect an atonement or reconciliation with God; in Eze 44:27, to the sin-offering” (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Commentary)

Jesus Christ is the “sin-offering”, and the One Who “reconciles” the sinner by being “Merciful”, to God. This “sin-offering” is for the entire human race, every single person, as it very clear from 1 John 2:2, with 5:19. But, this does not mean, that every person is “saved”, which would be “universal salvation”, something that is no where taught in the Bible. Romans 3:26 tells us, “To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus” (KJV). The Sacrifice of Jesus’ Death is indeed universal, but the “effects” of this “Sacrifice”, is only when the sinner is “justified” with God, when they “believe in Jesus”. Paul makes this very clear in Ephesians 1:13, “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit”.

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bling said:

I have read what you have been saying, but if you would take the time to read this:

Atonement is a huge misunderstood topic which all the theories do a poor job explaining, look at just one aspect they do not address:

When you go up to a nonbelieving sinner what are you trying to get him/her to accept: A doctrine, a denomination, a book, a theology, or something else. NO, you want the nonbeliever to accept “Jesus Christ and Him Crucified” and if he does a child of God is released to enter the Kingdom and be with God, but if the sinner rejects “Jesus Christ and Him crucifies” a child is kept out of the Kingdom.

Does this not sound very much like a kidnapping scenario with a ransom being offered?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is described in scripture as a literal ransom payment?

Would the sinner holding a child of God out of the Kingdom of God describe a kidnapper?

“Jesus Christ and Him crucified” is a huge sacrificial payment, like you find with children being ransomed?

Some think, if I do something, I am saving myself, but a criminal (very unrighteous) person can accept an undeserving ransom payment without doing anything worthy, righteous, honorable or noble.

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Dave L said:

You should study the atonement more in-depth. The truth is there for those who invest in it.

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bling said:

Not sure what you are asking?

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Dave L said:

The atonement is easier to understand than you think. You need to take all the scriptures that apply to it and balance them with each other. If you don't properly balance them, confusion and false ideas will result.

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bling said:

I would not use the word "balance", since what ever meaning we come up with has to be totally consistent with all scripture or we need to look for another interpretation.

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In-Christ-Alone said:

is Calvin right here?

John3:16, "That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life."

Mark 14:24, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one"

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In-Christ-Alone said:

Here is the Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney

“In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’, and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)

And, the Greek scholar, Dr Bill Mounce.

Does John 3:16 Say "Whoever"? - Mondays with Mounce 323

• Bill Mounce
  
  
• June 11, 2018
  
  
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Categories Mondays with Mounce

I have received several questions about the use of "whoever" in the translation of John 3:16, so I thought it would be good to clarify at least one thing.

Correct, the indefinite relative pronoun ὅστις does not occur in John 3:16, but language is not so monolithic that there is only one way to say something. In fact, whenever a commentary argues that if the author had meant to say one thing, he would have said it "this way," you should be suspicious. That's a naïve approach to language.

However, we do have an indefinite construction in John 3:16 with the use of πᾶς and an articular imperfective participle (πᾶς ἡ πιστευών) used to indicate a generic, "general utterance" (see Wallace, 615f.). Just do a search for that construction and you can see it is universal in intent.

For example, "But I say to you that whoever looks at (πᾶς ὁ βλέπων) a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matt 5:28). Isn't Jesus saying this is a generic statement, true of all who look with the intent of lusting? Of course it is.

Interestingly, v 28 is followed by v 32 that uses another explicitly indefinite contraction. "But I say to you that anyone who divorces (ὃς ἂν ἀπολύσῃ) his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery" (Matt 5:32). ὃς ἄν is explicitly indefinite and general.

The first meaning of πᾶς in BDAG is "pert[aining] to totality with focus on its individual components, each, every; any." The second is "any and every." Sounds indefinite to me.

Contextually, John is asserting a relatively unusual notion that God not only loves those who follow him (John's normal usage) but he actually loves the entire world, hence requiring an indefinite construction. To limit the meaning of the statement to a subgroup of people, "those among you who believe," is to read in a theology not supported by the Greek (and I am Reformed).

In the larger context, it agrees with statements like 1 Tim 2:4 that says God "wishes all people (πάντας ἀνθρώπους) to be saved and to come into a knowledge of the truth."

True, each/every person who believes is a subset of the whole (the "world"), and the gift of eternal life is only for that subset, but to somehow limit God's love to a subset of people runs counter to the Greek, the meaning of πᾶς, the grammar, the immediate context, and the larger context. If you believe in election (as I do), then you understand πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων as referring to the elect, but let's not dismiss the clear meaning of the text and suggest that God does not, in some way, love the world.

Can you translate the verse without "whoever"? Sure, as long as you choose words that are not limiting. "God loved the world so he gave his only Son, that every one who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life."

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In-Christ-Alone said:

so prove Mounce wrong?

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In-Christ-Alone said:

and "believes", in the Greek is in the present, continuance tense. which in the grammar is linked to "whoever", which means that some can stop believeing. "whoever continues to believe..."

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In-Christ-Alone said:

not here, the OP is not John 3:16, feel free to respond to the OP, thanks

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In-Christ-Alone said:

where did I say this?

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