The Barbarian
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House Passes Equality Act in a 'Severe Blow' to Religious Liberty, Women's Rights
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This is part that I have problems squaring with. Can they NOT figure something out here? Women's sports were created for a reason, and even if you identify - or on the path of transitioning doesn't change certain aspects of this reality.
They don't just have 'sports' teams (as in both men and women playing together, and they separated them for a reason). Many of those reasons if ignored will discriminate against Biological women. Are we has a society so dumb we can't find a way to have the trans athletes play competitively by acknowledging certain parts of science we can't change?
Remember males have a larger skeletal mass than women. Men have longer legs on top of that, and allows more muscle to grow there. Men have 80% muscle on their legs, and women have 60%. Mass plus acceleration equals more force!
Men have bigger hearts, and more red blood cells which allows more oxygen of the blood cells. This allows muscles to perform better, and top of that? The also have bigger lung capacity which equals bigger performance.
These natural human dynamics don't change during transition, or after the transition is complete. It doesn't change due to identity either. There is no drug, therapy or operation to change that.
This is the science of how people's bodies are formed, and it is discrimination against women/cis girls for others to claim those shouldn't matter - or is doesn't exist. It's gaslighting.
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That would be up to the states. So far there don’t seem to be any interested in taking a compromise position. They’re either all in or they don’t recognize trans rights at all. It seems like people are more interested in using sports as an argument against trans rights than actually dealing with it. Whether this act passes or not, I think not recognizing trans at all is going to fail.
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The Barbarian
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You're right, but the sports issue has become a wedge for people to try to withhold rights for some people. They have little incentive to compromise.
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What rights are you speaking of? You lost me. I assume you are speaking beyond sports right?
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The Barbarian
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Yes. LGBT people have the same rights anyone else does. Sports participation for transsexual people is a problem, because men tend to have greater upper body strength among other things, possibly resulting in an unfair advantage for some people.
This appears to be a wedge issue for some on the right, to justify unjust discrimination in other things.
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This isn't a small issue. Women's sports are important to many people. Just like you hear about professional player, and how their family made major sacrifices to make sure they got that scholarship, etc - same applies here. Granted the payday if the women succeed isn't as big, but it means a great deal to their families as well. Olympics for one thing would change forever.
Women fought for years for women's sports, and it's not just a 'right' issue. Left women play as well. It's important to them too. They shouldn't have to be the sacrificial lamb for another groups rights. I wouldn't mininse it to a 'wedge' issue if you spoke to women, and how their sport is just as important to them as it is to men. It shouldn't be that hard to find something for both transexual and bio women to play on fair ground.
Quite frankly, if people on the left (if we must present it like that, to me it's not a left/right issue) want something like the equality act? They need to figure something out - yes that means compromise. If they can't do that? They are just the average politician we see all over this globe. They claim this issue is important, and then do nothing else but allow their lips to move. The lips moving with no action for the most part? I've seen both left and right do that. It's fine to support something, but actions speak louder than words. They need to do something besides create drama, and get in front of the cameras to tell the world now MEAN the other side is. It's getting old, and if they can't handle that? They need to retire. I wouldn't mind it if 98% of congress retired personally. No side has done a great job.
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The Barbarian
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Not a small issue. But a rather small part of the whole issue. And it won't pass constitutional muster to argue that those people shouldn't have their rights because sports.
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iluvatar5150
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Given how much the right has pooh-pooh the concerns of and movement for equality for women for many years, it's hard to take seriously these newly-found concerns for women's sports as anything other than opportunistic obstructionism. Yes, this is a question that has to be dealt with. No, I don't think the left has come to a satisfying consensus yet. But the crying from the right just smacks of disingenuousness.
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I guess I can be cynical too, and say they knew (DEMS) that this is happening at the present moment. Women being pushed out of their sports, because no one presently is smart enough - or brave enough - to address the issue. So far? They have been mute on their alleged concerns for left or right women in sports. Yet, we are to see them as the SERIOUS ones for equality of women. Please.
Their courage to face this issue head on no doubt just astounds people with their bravery. (eye rolls) I guess the right isn't the only one that pooh-poohs it.
Actions speak louder than words. You don't put something like this out there, and know this issue is going to be brought up. Remember there are plenty of 'left' athletes as well. I mean they were really stupid to NOT address this issue prior to presenting the bill, or disingenuous factor must be contagious. Who brings this issue up without addressing the elephant in the room on this issue? The DEMS it seems.
This isn't a left/right issue. It's a women's issue. If politicians on either side are as smart and caring as they claim? We wouldn't be debating this at the moment. That shows the stupidness on both sides.
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The Barbarian
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My daughter coaches for a living. Her degree is in health and human performance. She has yet to see one example of a woman being pushed out. She knows one transgender person whose frame changed radically from hormones and muscled up to look like a man.
And her opinion, as well as most other coaches she's talked to, is that this is not a major issue. She says it's just not happening. What data do you have that women or girls are being pushed out?
And there's one absurd case where it went the other way. A girl transitioned to a guy. She was a wrestler before, and continued after. (having trouble with assigning pronouns here) They wouldn't let him wrestle with guys (and he wanted to). As a result, he was beating every girl he wrestled. At some point, we need to get a little common sense here. You're right; it's not a right/left thing. It's a reasonable/stupid thing.
Funny thing; my daughter's little girl is now 8, likes soccer, but loves dance and acting, and to Ginger's credit, she's supporting that every way she can.
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You want it worded a different way, because you don't like the 'pushed out' phase? That's fine. Whatever. You know what I meant.
You have young ladies that have been successful in sports competition, and they use these just like boys do to get college attention for scholarships. A transgendered woman/women come in and win championships due to physical advantages. That is just one story of many that have been reported on, and due to physical differences? They have the competitive advantage due to those. We should be able to have different leagues, because trans athletes should be allowed to compete. Yet, they should not be competing with cisgendered women. Yes, they were pushed out of placement due to the advantages. If you want it worded differently? Go right ahead, but the conclusion in these type of circumstances are the same. There are reasons why we don't just have 'sport' teams where everyone competes compared to men and women sports teams. We should be smart enough as a society to acknowledge that, and find a solution.
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Wolseley
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Perhaps they should simply create a third venue. "Male" sports for those born biologically male and who stay that way; "Female" sports for those born biologically female and who stay that way; and "Transitional" sports for those born one or the other but decide to become something else.
That way, boys only compete against boys, girls only compete against girls, and the others only compete amongst themselves. Seem eminently fair to me.
That way, boys only compete against boys, girls only compete against girls, and the others only compete amongst themselves. Seem eminently fair to me.
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The Barbarian
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I'd like to know who's being "pushed out" also. As I said, I have a daughter who coaches professionally, and she can't give me an example, other than that transgendered wrestler, who even though she's now a he, was forced to wrestle with girls, beating them handily, because the process gave him much greater strength. He doesn't like it; the girls don't like it, but conservative rule-makers imposed it on them.
But that's probably not the example you'd like to hear about.
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If you can't hear me by my positions on the issue I guess you don't wish too. Your 'other than' example The Barbarian is what I'm referring too. The article I linked to? They were not forced - they ran.
I mean I can play the word game too. The Trans athlete wasn't 'forced to wrestle with girls'. If she didn't like it, and knew it was unfair? She had a decision to make, and she made it. No gun to her head to force her. So tell me - how was she 'forced'? Who forced her The Barbarian?
Explain the word salad to me.
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The Barbarian
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Way too sensible to ever be implemented. It sounds fair to me, but the politically correct on the left and right would have a conniption. The radical left, because they want gender to be fluid and therefore your third category would be a perceived insult, and the radical right, because they don't want to accommodate transgender at all.
Seems reasonable. But that would require everyone to be reasonable.
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The Barbarian
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Actually, he was. And it wasn't unfair to him, it was unfair to the girls. He was willing to compete with guys, but the system wouldn't let him.
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