AMAZING FUN FACTS ON GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT AND SUNDAY WORSHIP!

guevaraj said:

Brother, unless you are close to the International Date Line, the Sabbath does not fall on a day of the week as in Eden and as in Israel it falls between two days of the week: between the sixth and the seventh day of the week. The only places that keeps the Sabbath correctly by direct instructions from God are those in Israel's time zone without understanding why they keep it the way they do.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was MORNING—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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I see. I guess that leaves the rest of the world out of the picture.

guevaraj said:

Brother, Longitude @ 145.092069º W is the true International Date Line established by God in creation week.

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wrong again. How on earth do you come up with this nonsense?

RBPerry said:

wrong again. How on earth do you come up with this nonsense?

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Brother, begins by understanding that God capped the end of the first day in a "morning" because the days of the week are from "morning" to "morning" and "evening" falls in the middle of the first day.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Why is it you won't deal with the scripture that I posted? No where in the bible does it say one must keep Saturday as the sabbath. It does clearly state that we must set one day out of seven to rest and worship.
It isn't only the Saturday sabbath issue that drove me away from the adventist church. Dietary restrictions that have been proven not to be consistent with scripture. Dress codes for women that have no basis in scripture such as wearing makeup.
Restrictions on drinking alcohol, and that has been proven to have health benefits if consumed in moderation. Drinking coffee, also proven to have certain health benefits.
Eating of meat, also proven to have health benefits not available in a vegetarian diet.
Nonsensical beliefs that wine was grape juice, that is one of the most ridiculous beliefs put forth by anyone.
Oh, and dancing, now there is a real big sin, why nobody seems to know, but it is to be avoided.
Rejection or distortion of anything in the New Testament that might challenge their beliefs.
Why do you think the Adventist forum won't allow challenges to their beliefs, sounds like they are afraid of the truth.
Yes, Jesus taught in the synagogues on Saturday because that's when they Jews worshiped, he also disputed their rules and made it clear that what they were demanding was wrong. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. So what does that mean that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath?
Now for our calendar, most of us know the julian calendar is based on 365.24 days a year to stay current with the solar year. That means we gain a day ever 128 years. Oh, no, what does that do to Saturday, it moves every 128 years one day. So let's see the Julian calendar was implemented around 45 or 46 BC. That means Saturday has moved just over 16 days.
So what day are you worshiping on? Please don't take this too seriously, but think about it.

Oh, I warn you not to challenge me on the dietary issues. I've spent over forty years studding what effects foods have on our metabolism. You can argue with science, but it will only prove you wrong.

RBPerry said:

So when Jesus was asked "what are the greatest commandments"? What was His answer?
Sunday worship has been established since 300 AD, no one had a problem with it until Mrs. White started having her dreams, dumped her kids to run around the country preaching about her dreams.

Most people today think of Sunday as the the seventh day of the week because most work Monday through Friday and then have Saturday and Sunday off.

I was almost expelled from Loma Linda because I started asking hard questions. The one thing Loma Linda had at the time was one of the best nutritional educations in the country, however they distorted it as well.

I have many SDA friends that I love dearly, we just disagree on way too many things to discuss theology, and most know little or nothing about Christian history and various beliefs that came about prior to the establishment of the Catholic church.

You want to worship on Saturday, fine, just don't make it a requirement, because it isn't. Personally I think we should begin each and every day worshiping our heavenly Father.

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What I say is not important. The only Words that matter are Gods.

The only day in the entire Bible that God set aside as "Holy" "Sacred" "Blessed" "We should Hallow" "Sanctified" and is the Sabbath is the seventh day. These are not my words they are Words our Creator wrote with His own hand and spoke with His own voice.

Exodus 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Following traditions that are man-made Jesus warns us about in Mathew 15:8,9

God wrote His laws (Exodus 20) in the Second Covenant in our hearts and minds well before Jesus came and those laws have never been abolished. In fact, Jesus made that abundantly clear when He said Matthew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The greatest commandments are God's commandments summarized.

As an FYI the other poster that is posting about the IDL is not an SDA member from what he has told us previously, so your discussion with him are not from an SDA view, which you may have suspected despite him labeling himself as one.

God bless

RBPerry said:

It does clearly state that we must set one day out of seven to rest and worship.

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Can you provide that scripture please?

imge said:

Can you provide that scripture please?

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You already posted it, Gen 2:2, don't see Saturday mentioned there.

What commandments was Jesus referring too? He wasn't referring to the Mosaic law, if he had been then we are all guilty of failing to follow the laws. He was referring to the Ten commandments.

So based on exodus 20:8-11 Jesus sinned by healing on the sabbath, and that is exactly what the Pharisees accused Him of. Reality is that scripture is a direct contradiction of what Jesus taught, so who are you going to believe? This is just one of the many conflicts in the bible as it is written today.

Do you know that the Gnostic Christians wanted the writings or letters of the New Testament and Jesus teachings totally separate from the Jewish bible (the old testament). Now I do not endorse that because of the prophecies that told of the coming messiah.

The bible we use today is merely a fraction of the documentation of what Jesus taught, you can thank the Catholic church for eliminating anything the challenged their beliefs and authority. Try reading the Apocryphas, that will open your eyes.

You are wrong in when you say "what you have to day doesn't matter", it does matter because other people will read it. I'm convinced your heart is in the right place, and you truly want to serve God as you believe He wants you to. We just disagree on interpretation and understanding of core beliefs.

My freshman year at Loma Linda I was an Adventist Adventist that thought everyone else was going to hell, by the time I graduated, I didn't know what to believe because I found too many conflicts in their dogma.

imge said:

As an FYI the other poster that is posting about the IDL is not an SDA member from what he has told us previously, so your discussion with him are not from an SDA view, which you may have suspected despite him labeling himself as one.

God bless

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I kind of figured that, sounds like a young man that has much to learn.
Heck, I'm a non denominational Christian going to a Southern Baptist church, that has more pentecostals in it than Baptist. Now you want to talk about some wild debates, this club has them. On top of that our Pastor is full blooded German, yes from Germany, and yes I drive him crazy at times.
What we all need to get straight, is we are followers of Christ to the best of our knowledge and openness to the direction that the Holy Spirit leads us.
Here is the thing, I can't say God doesn't want you in the SDA faith, nor you mine. I truly believe we are led by the Holly Spirit to worship where he wants to put us.

BobRyan said:

John 12:47-48
47 If anyone hears My teachings and does not keep them, I do not judge him;

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As I said, those who accept him (even though they do not keep his commands) will not be judged. Only those who do not accept him will be judged.

RBPerry said:

I kind of figured that, sounds like a young man that has much to learn.
Heck, I'm a non denominational Christian going to a Southern Baptist church, that has more pentecostals in it than Baptist. Now you want to talk about some wild debates, this club has them. On top of that our Pastor is full blooded German, yes from Germany, and yes I drive him crazy at times.
What we all need to get straight, is we are followers of Christ to the best of our knowledge and openness to the direction that the Holy Spirit leads us.
Here is the thing, I can't say God doesn't want you in the SDA faith, nor you mine. I truly believe we are led by the Holly Spirit to worship where he wants to put us.

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I just noticed you are in N. Cal. Curious if you ever went to see Pastor Doug Batchelor preach?

Freedm said:

As I said, those who accept him (even though they do not keep his commands) will not be judged.

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Sometimes in the Bible "Judged" means "judged and condemned"
And sometimes it means "evaluated"

Context matters

As I always say - "The Bible is the Word of God"

Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Rom 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad.

RBPerry said:

Here is the thing, I can't say God doesn't want you in the SDA faith, nor you mine. I truly believe we are led by the Holly Spirit to worship where he wants to put us.

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The point of these threads is not to argue "hey God does not want you to go to church where you go to church" - but rather to study the Bible on whatever the topic is - and do the "sola scriptura" test against the various points of view posted.


Everyone has free will and can choose as they wish - the question to be resolved for each individual is "What does the Word of God say on this subject?"

RBPerry said:

Why is it you won't deal with the scripture that I posted? No where in the bible does it say one must keep Saturday as the sabbath. It does clearly state that we must set one day out of seven to rest and worship.

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I am stepping into that conversation because it might make more sense to you (and to me) at this point.

Ok time for some "sola scriptura"

What text says "Sabbath is one day in seven - pick one"??
hint: it is most certainly not Ex 20:10 where the opposite point is found in scripture. Nor is it Gen 2:1-3

Let's say for the sake of argument someone at the foot of Sinai in Ex 20 had said "huh? what? did you say one day in seven? I think you said one day in seven... hmm fine.. I pick week day 4"... then what happens? (Might be at risk of having to go a day without food)

Ex 16 God said "tomorrow is the Sabbath"
Ex 20:10 God says that is the 7th day.

Luke 4 says Jesus was in the Synagogues on Sabbath reading scripture "as was his custom"

Acts 18:4 says "every Sabbath" they gathered for more gospel preaching from Paul.

And in the NT we see that while that is great for the 7th day - what about the first day of the week?

Clearly it says Jesus was resurrected on the first day of the week.

So hmmm all Sunday keeping Christians freely admit that week-day-1 is Sunday and all Sabbath keeping Christians (and Jews) agree that the 7th day is Saturday.

I think even Muslims agree on that numbering.

So you have all monotheistic religions pretty much agreeing on that numbering - to this very day.

So the numbering of the days mapped to the names we give them -- is what many would call "the easy part".

Even modern science freely states that 2000 years ago the Jews were keeping Saturday as the 7th day of the week (Sabbath).

RBPerry said:

Yes, Jesus taught in the synagogues on Saturday because that's when they Jews worshiped,

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Apparently you also agree that when God said "the seventh day IS THE Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 - that it was Saturday (since in Ex 16 He had already said "tomorrow IS THE Sabbath"

For 40 years no manna falls on "Saturday" -- I wonder how long they spent confused about "a seventh day" vs "the seventh day"

RBPerry said:

wrong again. How on earth do you come up with this nonsense?

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ok that is where we all pretty much join you.. I have no idea where those suggestions come from.

imge said:

I just noticed you are in N. Cal. Curious if you ever went to see Pastor Doug Batchelor preach?

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No, would be kind of hard, he died in 1994. I did listen to one of his messages and he was another claiming wine was grape juice.
I would be happy to engage any SDA pastor or theologian in a debate, I have with a few already.
Ask anyone who knows Greek the different greek words for wine and grape juice that isn't SDA.

BobRyan said:

Sometimes in the Bible "Judged" means "judged and condemned"
And sometimes it means "evaluated"

Context matters

As I always say - "The Bible is the Word of God"

Matt 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Rom 2:13-16
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive compensation for his deeds done through the body, in accordance with what he has done, whether good or bad.

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Not sure what happened, my response vanished.

BobRyan said:

Sometimes in the Bible "Judged" means "judged and condemned"
And sometimes it means "evaluated"

Context matters

As I always say - "The Bible is the Word of God"

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Your point is? We all know judgement is coming, not quite sure how you get condemned out of the word judge.

BobRyan said:

I am stepping into that conversation because it might make more sense to you (and to me) at this point.

Ok time for some "sola scriptura"

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Hi Bob, well so when did the manna fall, oh ya, the 40 years after leaving Egypt, Cesar came up with the Julian calendar around 45 BC, long after the Jews entered the promised land.

Now I do not dispute that the Jews worshiped on Saturday, no question, that was their Sabbath.

When I was in grade school (SDA school) one Saturday everyone was asked to pray for one of the members, he was a butcher and couldn't find a job. Why? They required butchers to work on Saturday. I foolishly stated, "Well he could go to church on Sunday like my friend Mike does." Well after my ears stopped ringing I decided not to give anymore advice. That was the logic of a sixth grader at the time, and you know what, it still is.

The issue isn't if Saturday is the original Sabbath and still is. The reality is Sunday worship didn't become an issue until the 1800 when Mrs White stared having her dreams.
Now we have all been taught that the bible we have today is the inspired word of God, don't you think if He had an issue with Sunday Worship He would have dealt with it during the foundation of the Christian faith. We all know Constantine changed the day of worship to appease the sun god worshipers, and that my have been a bad idea, but obviously God let slide and had no issue with it.

My main argument is legalism, and what it has done to Christianity, we have hundreds of denominations based on different interpretations of scripture. So someone curious about Christianity comes along and says, "these people don't know what they believe."

Like Paul said, all things are permissible, but not all are profitable ..... (my interpretation)

RBPerry said:

The issue isn't if Saturday is the original Sabbath and still is. The reality is Sunday worship didn't become an issue until the 1800 when Mrs White stared having her dreams. Now we have all been taught that the bible we have today is the inspired word of God, don't you think if He had an issue with Sunday Worship He would have dealt with it during the foundation of the Christian faith. We all know Constantine changed the day of worship to appease the sun god worshipers, and that my have been a bad idea, but obviously God let slide and had no issue with it.

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Brother, God is using the Sunday tradition to correct an even older Jewish Saturday tradition. When we stop with our worldly jealousy and quarrel with each other over which Sabbath tradition we follow and seek the truth of the Sabbath in God's word, we will discover that no one is following God's true biblical Sabbath. Such a person will need the faith to stand firm in the truth, without the support of a church. People like Samuelle Bachiochi's parents. Samuelle Bachiochi was my professor at Andrews University and he told us that his parents kept the Sabbath out of personal conviction while they were in Rome, living near Vatican City for many years before joining the Seventh-day Adventist Church.


United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge