What if God gave you a life of suffering so he could bless you eternally?

Jamdoc

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Lol those are methods of torture. Being stoned to death is terrible.

key word to death. There's an end in sight.
when we're talking torture, it's pain without death, they just keep you alive and causing pain just to cause pain.
a pretty significant difference.
 
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SANTOSO

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Dear ones, beloved in Christ Jesus.

Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the LORD delivers him out of them all. -Psalms 34:19

When we are afflicted ! Are we not suffering? We are. But we have the promise that God delivers the righteous out of all the afflictions.
We have hope in His words. He deliver us because He loves us.

Are those not healed and died ?
Are they not suffering or afflicted? They are
Are not they not delivered? They are delivered through Christ our Lord.

This is what we have heard:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy,

He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, -1 Peter 1:3

to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, -1 Peter 1:4

who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. -1 Peter 1:5

Those who are not healed, died and have believed in the name of the Son of God. Yes, they have believed in His person and power to deliver them. Yes, deliver them from death.

For the Lord have spoken :
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, -John 11:25
and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" -John 11:26
She said to him, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who is coming into the world." -John 11:27

Yes, those who have died and believe in Christ Jesus will live with those who lives and believe in Christ Jesus — for we shall never die because we believe that Jesus our Lord is
Christ the Son of God, who is coming into the world.

Yes, we have heard that there are those who have received healing, in the process of being healed and those who have not been healed.

This is what we have heard:
For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; -2 Corinthians 5:14
and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him who for their sake died and was raised. -2 Corinthians 5:15

Therefore, those who have been healed, in the process of healing, and have not been healed — should live for Christ who for their sake died and was raised.

Yes, much pains, suffering, and afflictions.
We need to trust in Christ’s steadfast love that He binds our wounds, and revive us.( Hosea 6:1-2 )
We need to trust in His righteousness to bring us out of distress. ( Psalm 25-17; Psalm 143:11 )
We need to trust in His strength to carry us through. ( Psalm 28:8-9 )

For our Heavenly Father out of His goodness have spoken to this to us in Proverbs 4:20-22
Likewise, we have heard in Roman 8:10-11.

Let us love our God despite our circumstances.

Remember the grace that He will give us when the tent that is our earthly home is torn down, that we have heard:

we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. -2 Corinthians 5:1
Also, a guarantee!
He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. -2 Corinthians 5:5

Let us be grateful to God for His love. Let us love God for all He has prepared for us who love Him. Let us trust in His steadfast love and surely His steadfast love will surround us !
 
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Macchiato

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I know what that - OT - verse says; I don't believe that God sends sickness and problems, for the reason given.

There is doubtless a fine line between specifically sending something and allowing it to take place - maybe it seemed to Isaiah that God was sending everything? The problem is that James says that every good and perfect present comes from God, and I don't know of anyone who thinks that bereavement, dementia, chronic illness and agonising pain are either good or perfect.


And the purpose for this is

In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:6-7).

Peter's talking about persecution.
He addresses his letter to those who are scattered, 1 Peter 1:1. When persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, Acts of the Apostles 8:1, the believers were scattered.
Persecution would test anyone's faith - remain true to Jesus and be killed, or deny him and live knowing that you have denied the faith and the Lord? That's why Hebrews was written - to encourage those facing persecution to stand firm, and not deny Christ and return to the Jewish faith. The church in Smyrna are told to stand firm and persevere under persecution, Revelation 2:10.

This is not at all the same as saying that the Lord sends M.E, MS, Cancer or whatever to teach and rebuke Christians.




Jesus didn't say that he had deliberately been made blind just so that God could be glorified.
Any treatment that he had received had not been successful, and God was clearly going to work in his life. But God didn't need to make him blind just to look good when he healed him.



In practice there is probably no difference between God sending something and God allowing it; it still hurts when we are going through it.

But I believe that God is the ultimate recycler - he can use anything for his own glory, Romans 8:28. That doesn't mean he sends the bad things. He is a perfect, loving heavenly Father, and the Good Shepherd. It is the devil who is the bad shepherd and who comes to steal and destroy; the devil who sends what he can to turn us away from God - look at Job 1.
As I said, to think up an evil disease like Alzheimer's is not the mark of a loving heavenly Father - Dementia might cause believers to forget God, and they would be unable to learn anything.



And supposing a Christian turns away from his faith and doesn't glorify God or help and comfort others? Supposing they forget they are Christians and everything that God has done for them, and can no longer praise and worship him in the latter years of their lives? Supposing Christian leaders get cancer, or other illnesses and dies from them? David Watson was very open about his cancer, wrote a book and gave talks about how he was closer to God and how he had been blessed IN it - but still died from it. God could have dramatically healed an international evangelist, but didn't. Same with Roy Castle and John Wimber, and I'm sure there have been others.

God's glory is seen in creation, in changed lives, in his people serving him, witnessing to him and being light - letting his light shine through them. God doesn't need to send pain, agony, sickness, destruction to glorify himself - but he can nonetheless receive glory in them by the way that we react to them.[/QUOTE]

So what do u make of that Verse? Bc its in the Bible and it does say God causes darkness/ calamity.

And that he allows them for pruning.

The verses are there.
 
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Macchiato

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key word to death. There's an end in sight.
when we're talking torture, it's pain without death, they just keep you alive and causing pain just to cause pain.
a pretty significant difference.
On earth youre going to die eventually whether slow or fast its still torture.
 
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bling

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Some might say well couldn't he have just given you the blessing without the suffering? The answer is yes but if he blesses you eternally after you have suffered for a lifetime then that blessing means so much more than if you have always had it good.

I see this in my life because God could have put me in a family where we have everything and life is as good as it gets but he wanted to give me the best he had and that meant enduring a life of poverty and severe illness. And I thank him for blessing me with knowing true pain and suffering so I could know true joy and happiness.
Wow, When I read the title to this thread I immediately thought it would be about the rich man and Lazarus, but skimming the post no one brought that up???
Most of the responses addressed the hardship as something that was "good" for the person going through the hardship, which can be true sometimes.
Lazarus was there everyday because God Loved the rich man and was providing the rich man with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type Love, by just helping Lazarus. Lazarus did a great job of providing that opportunity for the rich man, but it would have been better for everyone if the rich man had invited Lazarus in to join him at his table.
Today there are lots of Lazarus's to trip over every day, so how are we doing?
 
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Macchiato

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Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Fibromyalgia
Sciatica
Rare form of migraines

All four were healed. It’s been 9 years now.

Three years ago I was diagnosed with bulging discs. I woke one morning and couldn’t move and collapsed on the floor. One side of my body was useless. I went to the ER and was admitted 13 hours later.

I was a fall risk and couldn’t leave until they gave me a treatment and occupational therapy cleared me. I was sent home with a walker but I never used it. They sent me to physical therapy. I was released after 4 sessions. There were 8 total and they expected I’d need another round.

The pain was gone and I did an hour long aerobic workout a few days later. I reinjured it last year. They gave me a preliminary treatment (different one) to see if the more invasive one would work. It didn’t help. On the day of the procedure I arrived pain free. They stopped the procedure on the table when they realized I wasn’t hurting.

My doctor said it was a miracle and never happens. Less than 1% of patients would have my experience and I didn’t get relief from it. The pain left 2 weeks later. She refused to do it and agreed we’d follow the same pretreatment course if it returned. Miracles happen twice. She’s a believer.

That was last summer. I haven’t been back. It appears the Lord uses my health to minister to others. The physical therapy staff was shocked and praising God. No one with my condition would be released early. Not given the mobility loss I experienced.

The pain clinic team was shocked. They knew the case and had the x-rays. But they have my records and are aware of the other conditions going away. It wasn’t a leap of faith to call it a miracle. The other diseases and ailments disappeared.

The Lord told me to pray for healing years ago and last year when I hurt myself. In both instances I was told to pray against the spirit of infirmity. The first go round I fasted for a year. I didn’t the second time.

I may have the gift of intercession. I’m not sure. Breakthroughs are common when I pray for myself or others.

~bella

Wow. So amazing thats an amazing testimony and kind of my point. Your affliction were of no cause of your own but God was able to use it and save others around you.

Amazing.
 
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Macchiato

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Wow, When I read the title to this thread I immediately thought it would be about the rich man and Lazarus, but skimming the post no one brought that up???
Most of the responses addressed the hardship as something that was "good" for the person going through the hardship, which can be true sometimes.
Lazarus was there everyday because God Loved the rich man and was providing the rich man with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type Love, by just helping Lazarus. Lazarus did a great job of providing that opportunity for the rich man, but it would have been better for everyone if the rich man had invited Lazarus in to join him at his table.
Today there are lots of Lazarus's to trip over every day, so how are we doing?
I thought of Lazarus I just didn't get to it.
 
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bèlla

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Wow. So amazing thats an amazing testimony and kind of my point. Your affliction were of no cause of your own but God was able to use it and save others around you.

Amazing.

Thank you. I’ve enjoyed your posts in the thread. You have a good understanding of the word and explain well. Do you lead bible studies? You should. :)

~bella
 
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SANTOSO

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There are many people with physical ailments who don’t spend the day focused on discomfort. I’ve known my share and was the same. I couldn’t sit at a desk for more than 10 minutes without needing to lay down. And it took 15 to 20 minutes to walk a block depending on length and I didn’t drive. Life wasn’t a cakewalk.

I could have spent my days feeling sorry for myself. I went from healthy to debilitated with no warning. I had a reason to be upset. But it wouldn’t change anything.

I didn’t define myself by my condition nor did anyone else. They hated seeing me suffer but they didn’t treat me like I was helpless. And I wasn’t coddled either. I had assistance and looked after myself. I didn’t want to be a burden or crippled internally. Filling my head with negative thoughts had no upside.

It has nothing to do with your circumstances. It’s your mindset within the trial that makes a difference. Some of that is innate, circumstantial, and a reflection of maturity. You can bear up with dignity in your weakness or believe you’re useless. The choice is yours.

Physical illness can be infectious if you permit it. It creeps into the mind and heart and poisons them. We may never understand the reasons for our ailments. Only God does. Suffering is always unpleasant for the bearer. But there are greater hurts.

Look beyond yourself. Do something for others everyday. Pray for the forgotten and overlooked. Be an ear, study partner, mentor or friend. There’s a lot you can do.

Your in His Service,

~bella
I like your testimony,Bella. I like the way you think. I would like you to know that God gives strength to His people, as we have heard in Psalm 28:8. Why it matters? Because you are His people! Because you are loved by the Lord. When you rely on His strength, you will grow in love because of His goodness and loving kindness.

Are we called to grow in love ? What better way to be delighted? To know He rescued us out of love !
God bless you !
 
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So what do u make of that Verse? Bc its in the Bible and it does say God causes darkness/ calamity.

And that he allows them for pruning.

The verses are there.

And so are the verses about God being love, being perfect, being a heavenly Father who does not give his children snakes when they want fish, and that every good and perfect present comes from him. Those verses are there too - and they're all NT. So either God contradicts himself, or those OT verses mean something else.

God can use anything to speak to us and get our attention; not just burning bushes, pillars of fire and miracles, anything.
Maybe it seemed to the writers of the OT that God was causing these things, since he was not doing anything to stop them. But we are not told anywhere that God thinks to himself, "Right, X has sinned; what is the best level of sickness to send him to make him repent? Is Covid too harsh? What about a nice, temporary broken bone - that might work." Jesus never affirmed sickness, and never said "you haven't learnt your lesson yet" - he healed all kinds of illnesses; healing disease is a sign of the Kingdom.
If sickness was sent by God, then when God walked the earth in Jesus, he would have either told us that and said that people could stay sick for longer, until they had learned that lesson, or he would have deliberately made people sick.

And if God had wanted to control us through circumstances - sending problems and bad things until we do as we're told - he would have done it in the Garden of Eden and forced Adam not to disobey him.
 
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bèlla

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I like your testimony,Bella. I like the way you think. I would like you to know that God gives strength to His people, as we have heard in Psalm 28:8. Why it matters? Because you are His people! Because you are loved by the Lord. When you rely on His strength, you will grow in love because of His goodness and loving kindness.

Are we called to grow in love ? What better way to be delighted? To know He rescued us out of love !
God bless you !

Thank you. My illness arrived without warning and turned my world upside down. I had to give up my dream, change majors, stop working, etc. Losing medicine was hard. It broke my heart. But I found an alternative.

Sometimes you have to lose to gain. I’ve had my share and it hurt a lot. But I wouldn’t change a thing. :)

~bella
 
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Macchiato

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Thank you. I’ve enjoyed your posts in the thread. You have a good understanding of the word and explain well. Do you lead bible studies? You should. :)

~bella
Lol i do not. I had a decent teacher but as for me my heart needs to get right. I feel a leader if someone that loves God with all their heart, trusts no matter what and has integrity. Im working on all 3 lol.
 
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Macchiato

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And so are the verses about God being love, being perfect, being a heavenly Father who does not give his children snakes when they want fish, and that every good and perfect present comes from him. Those verses are there too - and they're all NT. So either God contradicts himself, or those OT verses mean something else.

God can use anything to speak to us and get our attention; not just burning bushes, pillars of fire and miracles, anything.
Maybe it seemed to the writers of the OT that God was causing these things, since he was not doing anything to stop them. But we are not told anywhere that God thinks to himself, "Right, X has sinned; what is the best level of sickness to send him to make him repent? Is Covid too harsh? What about a nice, temporary broken bone - that might work." Jesus never affirmed sickness, and never said "you haven't learnt your lesson yet" - he healed all kinds of illnesses; healing disease is a sign of the Kingdom.
If sickness was sent by God, then when God walked the earth in Jesus, he would have either told us that and said that people could stay sick for longer, until they had learned that lesson, or he would have deliberately made people sick.

And if God had wanted to control us through circumstances - sending problems and bad things until we do as we're told - he would have done it in the Garden of Eden and forced Adam not to disobey him.
You still didnt answer my question about that Isaiah verse. Im not trying to make God out to be a tyrant but to me it shows God is completely sovereign. Just because God is loving doesnt mean he'll give you all the desires of your heart like one person said many died without receiving God's promises. We can desire a spouse and still never marry. God has a will for all of us. Our will and his look totally different but His is ultimately best--and wont be overriden to an extent.

God's sovereignty and what he allows/ sends is something a lot of people struggle with but it's still Biblical.
 
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SANTOSO

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Thank you. My illness arrived without warning and turned my world upside down. I had to give up my dream, change majors, stop working, etc. Losing medicine was hard. It broke my heart. But I found an alternative.

Sometimes you have to lose to gain. I’ve had my share and it hurt a lot. But I wouldn’t change a thing. :)

~bella

Bella .. I thank God give you strength to persevere in this situation..thank God who give joy in this situation, too.

Recently, I learn the meaning of the word “dismay” that is : consternation and distress, typically that caused by something unexpected.

Then I remember :
Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go." -Joshua 1:9

The Lord know that there are those who face unexpected! This assurance He has given before an unexpected distress come, that He is with us where we go.

I believe there is deeper meaning of counsel and comfort of love from understanding what truly the Lord means that He is with us !
 
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bèlla

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Lol i do not. I had a decent teacher but as for me my heart needs to get right. I feel a leader if someone that loves God with all their heart, trusts no matter what and has integrity. Im working on all 3 lol.

It looks like you’re on your way. I’m sure the Lord will nudge you directly and through others when you’re ready to take on more.

Leaders are just like laymen. They have moments of doubt too. Both are servants. One was entrusted to serve as a leader and the other in a different capacity. They glorify Him. :)

~bella
 
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