What must I do to be saved?

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It's believing in his imputed righteousness. The gospel you read in 1 Corinthians 15. Nothing more. Works negate grace.
Why are you negating you inner self over your fleshy self. Christ said belive in him. It's literal. Your arguments are evading the simple truth of the gospel.
I'm getting tired of your mockery of the grace of the lord Jesus Christ. You hate grace.

I also believe in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. But what you fail to understand that not only is a belief in Jesus as the savior and the gospel a necessary part of Jesus imputing His sacrifice to us, but so is 1 John 1:7. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 2:9-11 by indirect wording says that walking in the light is loving your brother. This is confirmed in the fact that the one who does not love his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10). Loving your brother is more than just giving him a high five and or saying nice words to him only. Loving your brother would be in your actions, as well.

“My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.” (1 John 3:18).

“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8).

A person who does not know Jesus (GOD) or God the Father is not saved.

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3).
 
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- Thunderstorm of hail and fire: Ex. 9:13–35
- Locusts: Ex. 10:1–20
- Death of firstborn: Ex. 11:1–12:36

All the plagues were pre-ordained.


Right, but this was on the account of Egypt's sins and or refusal to let God's people go. This was not some kind of pre-ordained election to punishment because God woke up one day and just decided to punish people for no good reason.
 
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SkyWriting

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Right, but this was on the account of Egypt's sins and or refusal to let God's people go. This was not some kind of pre-ordained election to punishment because God woke up one day and just decided to punish people for no good reason.
Butterball1 said:
Show me an example where God preordained a person to do wrong then God punished that person for the wrong God caused that person to do..


The plagues cover the challenge. Thanks for considering it.
 
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SkyWriting

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This was not some kind of pre-ordained election to punishment because God woke up one day and just decided to punish people for no good reason.

God has preordained for all unbelievers to be punished. And God has decided who that will be and who won't be.
 
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Butterball1 said:
Show me an example where God preordained a person to do wrong then God punished that person for the wrong God caused that person to do..

Wait! What!? Tell me you just didn't say that. You said God punished people for the wrong God caused that person to do? What? If I am understanding you correct, you are basically saying God caused a person to do evil. This is not right. There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5). God is good. God is holy, and just in everything He does.

I know. You think God first hardened Pharoah's heart but this is not the case. Pharoah first hardened his own heart to begin with and God just gave him more of what he was doing.

Pharaoh initiated the whole process of hardening his own heart several times during the first several plagues (Exodus 7:13-14, Exodus 7:22; Exodus 8:15, Exodus 8:19, Exodus 8:32; Exodus 9:7, Exodus 9:34-35).
 
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God has preordained for all unbelievers to be punished. And God has decided who that will be and who won't be.

2 Peter 2:5-6 tells us that the global flood is an example to all who live ungodly thereafter. Meaning, we are to change our ways as an example of hearing the global flood story. This does not work in Calvinism because they believe one is saved by some kind of forced election process by God. No story needed to give an example for the ungodly to change. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Not some. All should come to repentance. 1 John 2:2 mentions how Christ is the atoning sacrifice not only for believers sins, but for the sins of the entire world. This means salvation is for all and not for a select few that God just randomly picks. It is not even moral or good for God to Unconditionally elect some for salvation and others to reprobation. God cannot punish people for their sin if they have no control over their sinful state and it is God who is the One who can zap and change them. It would be like kicking a dog across the room because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem. The dog cannot help but to poop hot steamy piles of furniture on his master's carpet, and yet the master does not care. He just wants to blame the poor animal and kick him like a football when he could take the animal to the vet and cure him of his sickness.
 
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GraceInChrist

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I also believe in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. But what you fail to understand that not only is a belief in Jesus as the savior and the gospel a necessary part of Jesus imputing His sacrifice to us, but so is 1 John 1:7. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 2:9-11 by indirect wording says that walking in the light is loving your brother. This is confirmed in the fact that the one who does not love his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10). Loving your brother is more than just giving him a high five and or saying nice words to him only. Loving your brother would be in your actions, as well.

“My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.” (1 John 3:18).

“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8).

A person who does not know Jesus (GOD) or God the Father is not saved.

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3).
We can not love as we should, if we could we would had never broken the law. We no longer have any sin. This is why the verses I gave remark a new spiritual birth outside our flesh. If we worketh then it wouldn't be unmerited grace. If you keep mocking free grace then you are lost and the truth is not within you.

1 John 1:8
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

We are save not because we love, but because we know how much we lack that love. We prayed God to have mercy of us sinners. Nevertheless the flesh can not be saved, this is why we struggle against sin. Does losing the battle against our iniquities negates his grace, far from it were sin abounds grace abounds even more.

Many say they believe, but they never did it within their hearts. In order to be eternally secure you need to admit you are a sinner. Then we seek God's grace and trust in him. That is the law of faith.


In regards of the mark of the beast, aren't we who remain seal with the mark of God to prevent the mark of the beast.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Imagine a person who thinks he was already saved and destined to heaven no matter what he will do, whether he do evil or not. Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.”​

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

In other words, if I tell people they are saved by grace and nothing can separate them from God, then they can do all kinds of unimaginable evils in the name of God. This is why I have a problem with Belief Alone-ism.
There is a story that rings my mind.

Luke 18:9-14

King James Version

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 
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GraceInChrist

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I also believe in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. But what you fail to understand that not only is a belief in Jesus as the savior and the gospel a necessary part of Jesus imputing His sacrifice to us, but so is 1 John 1:7. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 2:9-11 by indirect wording says that walking in the light is loving your brother. This is confirmed in the fact that the one who does not love his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10). Loving your brother is more than just giving him a high five and or saying nice words to him only. Loving your brother would be in your actions, as well.

“My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.” (1 John 3:18).

“Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8).

A person who does not know Jesus (GOD) or God the Father is not saved.

“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3).
People who reject eternal security believe our faith in the cross is foolishness.

1 Corinthians 1:18
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
 
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Butterball1

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Wait! What!? Tell me you just didn't say that. You said God punished people for the wrong God caused that person to do? What? If I am understanding you correct, you are basically saying God caused a person to do evil. This is not right. There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5). God is good. God is holy, and just in everything He does.

I know. You think God first hardened Pharoah's heart but this is not the case. Pharoah first hardened his own heart to begin with and God just gave him more of what he was doing.

Pharaoh initiated the whole process of hardening his own heart several times during the first several plagues (Exodus 7:13-14, Exodus 7:22; Exodus 8:15, Exodus 8:19, Exodus 8:32; Exodus 9:7, Exodus 9:34-35).
You misread what I posted.

Calvinism (not me) claims God causes one to do worng then God punishes that person for the wrong God caused that person to do. Therefore can a Calvinist show me an example of God doing this?
 
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Butterball1

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Butterball1 said:
Show me an example where God preordained a person to do wrong then God punished that person for the wrong God caused that person to do..


The plagues cover the challenge. Thanks for considering it.
???

The plagues did not cause men to do wrong against their will.
 
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You misread what I posted.

Calvinism (not me) claims God causes one to do worng then God punishes that person for the wrong God caused that person to do. Therefore can a Calvinist show me an example of God doing this?

I did not really read what you had posted. I was replying to Skywriter's reply to you and his belief in Calvinism that claims God causes one to do wrong and then God punishes that person for the wrong God caused that person to do. This kind of belief is shocking to say the least. It is neither moral or biblical.
 
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People who reject eternal security believe our faith in the cross is foolishness.

1 Corinthians 1:18
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”

Uh yeah. Again, you are not reading the Bible in context. Belief Alone-ism or a sin and still be saved type gospel is not what Paul was preaching. The preaching of the cross that perishes foolishness upholds the goodness of God. So you are quoting this verse out of it's context. In 1 Corinthians 3, we learn that the Corinthians are justifying the sins of strife and envy (See: 1 Corinthians 3:3). In Galatians 5:20-21, we know that Paul condemns the sins of strife and envyings and says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. I could go into a deeper explanation on 1 Corinthians 3, but so far it does not seem like you are actually reading my posts.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Uh yeah. Again, you are not reading the Bible in context. Belief Alone-ism or a sin and still be saved type gospel is not what Paul was preaching. So you are quoting this verse out of it's context. In 1 Corinthians 3, we learn that the Corinthians are justifying the sins of strife and envy (See: 1 Corinthians 3:3). In Galatians 5:20-21, we know that Paul condemns the sins of strife and envyings and says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. I could go into a deeper explanation on 1 Corinthians 3, but so far it does not seem like you are actually reading my posts.
Yet again you are failing to rightly divide the word of truth. You are reprobate. I will no longer throw pearls into pigs.
 
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Yet again you are failing to rightly divide the word of truth. You are reprobate. I will no longer throw pearls into pigs.

First, we are not allowed to insult other Christians here on the forum and say they are not saved without gaining points and eventual banning from the website. Second, you misquoted Matthew 7:6, friend.

Matthew 7:6 says, “...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you”​

So it's cast your pearls before swine and it is not throw pearls into swine or pigs.

Anyways, may God bless you (even if we disagree strongly on the Scriptures).
 
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There is a story that rings my mind.

Luke 18:9-14

King James Version

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Oh wow. So you are saying that George Sodini who murdered a bunch of people, and who took his own life was saved? Is that what you are implying by your quote of Scripture above here?
 
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We can not love as we should, if we could we would had never broken the law. We no longer have any sin. This is why the verses I gave remark a new spiritual birth outside our flesh. If we worketh then it wouldn't be unmerited grace. If you keep mocking free grace then you are lost and the truth is not within you.

1 John 1:8
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”

We are save not because we love, but because we know how much we lack that love. We prayed God to have mercy of us sinners. Nevertheless the flesh can not be saved, this is why we struggle against sin. Does losing the battle against our iniquities negates his grace, far from it were sin abounds grace abounds even more.

Many say they believe, but they never did it within their hearts. In order to be eternally secure you need to admit you are a sinner. Then we seek God's grace and trust in him. That is the law of faith.


In regards of the mark of the beast, aren't we who remain seal with the mark of God to prevent the mark of the beast.

What is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Uh yeah. Again, you are not reading the Bible in context. Belief Alone-ism or a sin and still be saved type gospel is not what Paul was preaching. The preaching of the cross that perishes foolishness upholds the goodness of God. So you are quoting this verse out of it's context. In 1 Corinthians 3, we learn that the Corinthians are justifying the sins of strife and envy (See: 1 Corinthians 3:3). In Galatians 5:20-21, we know that Paul condemns the sins of strife and envyings and says that they which do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. I could go into a deeper explanation on 1 Corinthians 3, but so far it does not seem like you are actually reading my posts.
John 5:24, KJV: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall NOTcome into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him SHOULD NOT PERISH but HAVE everlasting life. John 6:37-39 KJV All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again on the last day. John 6:47 KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. Hebrews 10:14 KJV By the which will (will of God) we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins FOR EVER, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Romans 10:10-11 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. If you are trusting in your good works to save you, God calls that sin or iniquity and if you don’t repent, this is what you have to look forward to.. Matthew 7:22-33 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all OUR righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it NO MORE of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. What about those who backslide? Hebrews 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But WE (Those who are saved by trusting in Jesus) are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. If we are in sin - Hebrews 12:6-8 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, (having believed you were) ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the PURCHASED possession, unto the praise of his glory. John 10:28-30 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Oh wow. So you are saying that George Sodini who murdered a bunch of people, and who took his own life was saved? Is that what you are implying by your quote of Scripture above here?
Yes, yet you boast like the pharisees saying thank God you are not like him.
 
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GraceInChrist

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First, we are not allowed to insult other Christians here on the forum and say they are not saved without gaining points and eventual banning from the website. Second, you misquoted Matthew 7:6, friend.

Matthew 7:6 says, “...neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you”​

So it's cast your pearls before swine and it is not throw pearls into swine or pigs.

Anyways, may God bless you (even if we disagree strongly on the Scriptures).

You mock grace. Calling it easy believism. Mocking a man for his moral failures and mistakes, calling he doesnt deserve the grace of God. And im the one flaming?

Where is that love, you so much boast?
 
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