Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

imge said:

Yes, but His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant and one that continues forever as promised in Isaiah 66:23. So the more does not mean a different Sabbath. We will have to wait to see what it means and not speculate to undermine what we are told to do NOW. God bless.

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I think the covenant involving the Sabbath would mean that we consider the Sabbath holy and do not do our work on it.

Is there a day that you consider unholy and that you do your own work on, disregarding God's work?

Nathan@work said:

Not a new law.

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I'm going with what Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you. . ." "You have heard it said,. . .but I tell you. . ."

Actually, they are new, they are new legislation, subject to penalty. . .
"subject to judgment," "in danger of hell fire,"
"you may be thrown into prison and you will not get out until you have paid the last penny,"
"gouge it out, cut it off, rather than your whole body go to hell,"
"in the way you judge other, you will be judged,"

Clare73 said:

I'm going with what Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you. . ." "You have heard it said,. . .but I tell you. . ."

Actually, they are new, they are new legislation, subject to penalty. . .
"subject to judgment," "in danger of hell fire,"
"you may be thrown into prison and you will not get out until you have paid the last penny,"
"gouge it out, cut it off, rather than your whole body go to hell,"
"in the way you judge other, you will be judged,"

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2 John 1:5- "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another."

God Bless!

I am reminded of....

Mark 2:18-22 (ESV2011)
Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. And people came and said to him, “Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day. No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment. If he does, the patch tears away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear is made. And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins—and the wine is destroyed, and so are the skins. But new wine is for fresh wineskins.”

Matt 13:44-53 (ESV2011)
“The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who, on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it. “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. “Have you understood all these things?” They said to him, “Yes.” And he said to them, “Therefore every scribe who has been trained for the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house, who brings out of his treasure what is new and what is old.” And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there,

BobRyan said:

1. No text says " Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath " not even the ones you provide above.
2. No NT text says Christians assembled every week-day-1 not even the ones you provide above.
3. No NT text says to "assemble on the day of Christ's resurrection each week" not even the ones you provide above.
4. No NT text says "the day of Christ's resurrection is the Lord's day" not even the ones you provide above.

My guess is that you might also agree to these obvious facts since you never provide a text saying any of that.

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Strawman. . .which demonstrates nothing.

No text says "God is sovereign," but he is anyway.
No text says "Jesus is divine," but he is anyway.
No text says, "God is Trinity," but God is anyway, etc., etc., etc.

Hebrews is addressed to NT Hebrews who, because of persecution by the Jews and disinheritance by their families,
were considering a return to Judaism. It contains five spiritual warnings about the drastic spiritual consequences
of such a decision, of which the third, Heb 6:4-6, is the most dreadful, and of which Heb 4:1-13 is the second,
reminding them of the consequences of 40 years wandering in the dessert for their refusal to enter Canaan, the land of the promised rest
(Dt 12:9-10, 25:19; Josh 1:13, 11:23, 21:44, 22:4, 23:1), and warning them not to fail to enter into God's rest again.

Heb 4 is about the (spiritual) salvation rest of the NT (4:1-3, 6-7, 9-10), which is God's own rest (4:10)
in which they are invited to share (4:11), prefigured, foreshadowed in Canaan, the OT (physical) rest after 40 years
of wandering in the wilderness, promised by God but only partially and temporarily fulfilled in Canaan (Heb 4:8),
because God spoke of another day, "Today" in Ps 95:7-8 (4:7) of Sabbath-rest for the people of God (4:9), in the NT (4:11).

What is the nature of this rest of "another day, Today" for the people of God spoken of in Ps 95:7-8,
and what is it a rest from, to which Heb 4:1-13 is referring?

The nature of the rest is spiritual, it is rest in Christ.
It is rest from our own work to save, and rest in Christ's work which saved us.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath, set apart (sanctified) and given for rest (Ex 23:3; Dt 5:14),
which is why we find the NT Christians assembling on the day of Christ's resurrection, the Lord's Day (Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; Rev 1:10).

imge said:

Not sure how that verse undermines God's Sabbath. Everything that is good is from God and we should give thanks to Him daily. I try to read my Bible daily and pray daily, but His Sabbath is special and God asked us to not work on the seventh day and keep it Holy. God bless

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It doesn't undermine the sabbath!

I think it gives us a fuller understanding of it.

I don't think that the commandment about the Sabbath says to do no work on it, rather not to do our own work.

We know that the priests were commanded to work on the sabbath, but I don't think they are breaking the Sabbath, because they are doing God's work.

BobRyan said:

BobRyan said: ↑
Moses and Elijah stand "With Christ" in Matt 17 before the cross - in glory.
Moses did not say to work on the Sabbath since "you are holy and anything you do is holy"
"The gospel was preached to us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:1-2
Gal 4 condemns the keeping of even one pagan day as holy.



John 8 Jesus said "Abraham saw MY DAY and was glad"
Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:8 that Gospel was preached to Abraham
1 Peter 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

So while we may have some details that they did not know about - the Gospel is the same according to the NT text.

There are non-gospel details like the failure of the Jews that may have been too much for them in the OT to stomach at the time.

But the death of Christ paying all the debt of sin for all the sins of the entire world - does not need a Roman soldier or a Jew in rebellion. Christ was already dying in Gethsemane sweating great drops of blood.

There will be no Roman soldiers or rebellious Jews at the lake of fire event "waiting to torment the lost". That is not "our debt"

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Yes, I agree that there are details that they didn't know about. I think some of those details would be how we go about fulfilling the commandments.

Peace!

Leaf473 said:

It doesn't undermine the sabbath!

I think it gives us a fuller understanding of it.

I don't think that the commandment about the Sabbath says to do no work on it, rather not to do our own work.

We know that the priests were commanded to work on the sabbath, but I don't think they are breaking the Sabbath, because they are doing God's work.

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And I think this might only apply to those "esteem on day as above another", and not "every day alike", etc, also, etc...?

"Let each one be persuaded in his own mind", etc...

Or "settle it in his own conscience", etc...

(Romans 14:5)

Full context (Romans 14), etc...

Cause the ones who esteem "every day alike", might be doing God's work almost all of ever single one of those days pretty much all of the time, etc, and are "just not really ever keeping track", etc, of the "days", etc, cause "that's just the way they are", etc, and maybe "is just the way their life is now like maybe", etc...

So when they need a break, they take a break, not really thinking about the days, etc, and/or but and/or because, it's not very long till they are "back at it again", etc, and again, are "not really keeping track", etc...

Either Saturday or Sunday worship/God's work, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Nathan@work said:

Well, you are reading a 'translation' of what Jesus said.

The word you read as "new" literally, specifically, means 'refreshed'.

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Thanks, but the word is kainos, and it means several things: new, recent, newly made, fresh.

And Jesus stated the consequences of disobeying those new commands.

Clare73 said:

What about:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
so that the man of God be complete (thoroughly equipped) for every good work." (2Tim 3:16-17)

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I like that passage. In fact, if you look at my post, you will see I kinda quoted it.

imge said:

You can read it for yourself, it is pretty clear to me:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We are to do all our work in six days, God asks us to keep Holy the seventh day each week. This is an important way we know our Lord God by dedicating the day He asked to Him .

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So we don't, any of us, ever do any kind of work at all for God, on the Sabbath Day at all ever, etc, not even God's work, or a work of God on the Sabbath Day ever, etc...?

I'm curious then, what then qualifies, or else does not qualify, in your mind then, as God's work, or a work of God or not, (being done on the Sabbath or not) then, etc...?

Did Jesus sin then, because He was doing God's work on the Sabbath Day, cause that's exactly what the Pharisees thought, cause they said it was "absolutely no work of any kind at all ever" (on the Sabbath Day), etc...?

Just trying to figure out your way of thinking on this, etc...?

God Bless!

This post keeps disappearing in the thread:

Why is that?
#345:

BobRyan said:

1. No text says " Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath " not even the ones you provide above.
2. No NT text says Christians assembled every week-day-1 not even the ones you provide above.
3. No NT text says to "assemble on the day of Christ's resurrection each week" not even the ones you provide above.
4. No NT text says "the day of Christ's resurrection is the Lord's day" not even the ones you provide above.
My guess is that you might also agree to these obvious facts since you never provide a text saying any of that.

Click to expand...

Which demonstrates nothing.

No text says "God is sovereign," but he is anyway.
No text says "Jesus is divine," but he is anyway.
No text says, "God is Trinity," but God is anyway, etc., etc., etc.

Hebrews is addressed to NT Hebrews who, because of persecution by the Jews and disinheritance by their families,
were considering a return to Judaism. It contains five spiritual warnings about the drastic spiritual consequences
of such a decision, of which the third, Heb 6:4-6, is the most dreadful, and of which Heb 4:1-13 is the second,
reminding them of the consequences of 40 years wandering in the dessert for their refusal to enter Canaan, the land of the promised rest
(Dt 12:9-10, 25:19; Josh 1:13, 11:23, 21:44, 22:4, 23:1), and warning them not to fail to enter into God's rest again.

Heb 4 is about the (spiritual) salvation rest of the NT (4:1-3, 6-7, 9-10), which is God's own rest (4:10)
in which they are invited to share (4:11), prefigured, foreshadowed in Canaan, the OT (physical) rest after 40 years
of wandering in the wilderness, promised by God but only partially and temporarily fulfilled in Canaan (Heb 4:8),
because God spoke of another day, "Today" in Ps 95:7-8 (4:7) of Sabbath-rest for the people of God (4:9), in the NT (4:11).

What is the nature of this rest of "another day, Today" for the people of God spoken of in Ps 95:7-8,
and what is it a rest from, to which Heb 4:1-13 is referring?

The nature of the rest is spiritual, it is rest in Christ.
It is rest from our own work to save, and rest in Christ's work which saved us.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath, set apart (sanctified) and given for rest (Ex 23:3; Dt 5:14),
which is why we find the NT Christians assembling on the day of Christ's resurrection, the Lord's Day (Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; Rev 1:10).

Clare73 said:

Thanks, but the word is kainos, and it means several things: new, recent, newly made, fresh.

And Jesus stated the consequences of disobeying those new commands.

Click to expand...

Humor me. Have you ever read the whole Bible?

This post keeps disappearing in the thread:

#342:

Nathan said:

Not a new law.

Click to expand...

I'm going with what Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you. . ." "You have heard it said,. . .but I tell you. . ."

Actually, they are new, they are new legislation, subject to penalty. . .
"subject to judgment," "in danger of hell fire,"
"you may be thrown into prison and you will not get out until you have paid the last penny,"
"gouge it out, cut it off, rather than your whole body go to hell,"
"in the way you judge other, you will be judged,"

Nathan@work said:

Humor me. Have you ever read the whole Bible?

Click to expand...

Have you?

imge said:

You can read it for yourself, it is pretty clear to me:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We are to do all our work in six days, God asks us to keep Holy the seventh day each week. This is an important way we know our Lord God by dedicating the day He asked to Him .

Click to expand...

We may wish to look at the context "do all your work" during the six days.

Doesn't Jesus teach that it is lawful to do good on the sabbath? even if it involves work?

I think it is lawful to help a person who has been injured in a car accident on the sabbath. Do we agree there?

Neogaia777 said:

2 John 1:5- "And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another."

God Bless!

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Jn 13:34.

Clare73 said:

Jn 13:34.

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Do you agree that Love "always was", etc, and always existed in, and even from before, the very beginning, etc...?

Yes or No, etc...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

And I think this might only apply to those "esteem on day as above another", and not "every day alike", etc, also, etc...?

"Let each one be persuaded in his own mind", etc...

Or "settle it in his own conscience", etc...

(Romans 14:5)

Full context (Romans 14), etc...

Cause the ones who esteem "every day alike", might be doing God's work almost all of ever single one of those days pretty much all of the time, etc, and are "just not really ever keeping track", etc, of the "days", etc, cause "that's just the way they are", etc, and maybe "is just the way their life is now like maybe", etc...

So when they need a break, they take a break, not really thinking about the days, etc, and/or but and/or because, it's not very long till they are "back at it again", etc, and again, are "not really keeping track", etc...

Either Saturday or Sunday worship/God's work, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

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Yes, like Jesus talked about how everyone back then agreed that it was lawful to circumcise on the Sabbath day.

How much better to make an entire person whole, or to at least help them change their flat tire!

But like you were talking about, be fully convinced in your own mind.

Peace!