condition for people to be saved in their last moments

mikeforjesus

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Do you think that a merciful God would condemn His children the eternal torment?

Romans 6:23 clearly says that the Penalty for sin is death.

The fire is everlasting and the death is permanent or forever .The fire is reserved for Satan and his angels. Matthew 25:41..."Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Job even asked why was he born.Job 3:11. One needs to have God's Holy spirit in order to sin against it and I have shown the scriptures that tell us how to obtain it.


The doctrine of the immortal soul is unscriptural and has been used by churches over the years to scare and control people.I have given many scriptures that say this. Here is one more...Acts 2:29."Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day.

David is not in heaven or anywhere else but the grave awaiting the resurrection.


there is indeed a hell and there are levels for some are deceivers and they know the truth and try to deceive people from knowing and following the truth either they know there is a hell or they don’t care to follow the truth and teach people to follow it but try to deceive others they have the greatest damnation in hell with all who know the truth and do not follow it others have less damnation but every damnation is very bad because one is constantly punished but it is only said to be more tolerable for some as some are punished with even more greater torments to tolerate

Because people may be willing to believe in Jesus but others try to make them believe it is a lie but they are still accountable because they are required to keep seeking and to believe
 
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mikeforjesus

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When a person comes under conviction of their sin, is the best time for that person to receive the Savior for their sin (this is what happened with the theif on the cross). His Spirit won't hang around forever convicting us of our sin.


2 Corinthians 6:2 (KJV) (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)



Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.


(Heb 4:7)



I have heard this view I thought I may agree but I wonder if it is harder to hear His voice later though still possible unless one is on his death bed and if one never tried to accept Him God may not permit that person to hear His voice then though I thought maybe God will always make it possible though harder before death for how is it said God is not willing that any perish unless it is always possible and not harder but repentance has to be sincere which only God knows


Thankyou for sharing

I still agree with this and we as Christians must not close the door on people to say it is impossible for some people to still be saved. One day it will be impossible if Jesus returns while we have not repented or if we die without having repented but today is the day of salvation as long as one still desires salvation and to repent it is still possible if he strives. Maybe it is true if one does not come to Jesus now he may need to strive very hard to believe later but if anyone believes later and repents while they have chance they are accepted. But if people do not come now and repent they may lose their opportunity for salvation as they may die at a time they do not expect without having been able to find the oil as you need to strive now to be able to find the oil before you die to be able to find and do His will and having done it all before you die


But I know the time to accept will be shortened if we do not heed as Jesus will come when transgressors have reached fullness when they no longer seek to repent and follow Jesus and also when sin increases Jesus may come sooner so if one is not repenting now when Jesus comes they may not be ready


But as revelations says if anyone thirsts later him come we should not stumble if others do not receive so it says let him who is unrighteous remain unrighteous but you should remain righteous to still preach Jesus and to follow Jesus but you should not be offended if others do not accept your preaching to make you stop preaching Jesus as the only way to heaven but you should not compromise the gospel to gain other approval but teach the whole thing so if you don’t know you should not preach but one may have believed he has a responsibility to try to show care and it is not right to pronounce judgements we do not know as only God knows what is required for each because He commands all to obey but He said it is lawful for Him to do what He wants with His own things to accept one late if He allows one to live to old age if person received Jesus in last moment and deserves excuse and you yourself remain following Jesus and do not let others make you not faithful
 
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aiki

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if everyone can be saved in their last moments then what is the harm of delaying repentance?

Good question. Of course, no one knows when their last moment will arrive and if there will be the time to repent. Anyway, the Bible offers quite a list of reasons why thinking to repent at the last minute is a VERY bad idea.

1. Loss of fellowship with God.

God made us to be in fellowship with Himself (1 Corinthians 1:9; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 John 1:3). It is the way to be most fulfilled in life. The joyful, contented, meaningful life we're all striving for in one way or another can only be encountered in intimate communion - fellowship - with our Maker. One misses out on this wonderful fellowship under the thinking that at the end of life one will repent and come to faith in Christ.

2. Hardening. (Hebrews 3:7-8; Proverbs 28:14; Proverbs 29:1)

Humans form habits very readily, habits of thought and behaviour, in good directions and bad. It's the way God has made us. As habits form and are strengthened over time through repetition, one becomes hardened in those habits. Eventually, a habit can have such momentum in one's life, one can't resist it at all and doesn't even think to do so. It becomes reflexive and at such a point often develops a physiological/biochemical component that powerfully reinforces the habit, making it extremely difficult to undo. Depression is like this, as is anxiety, and various addictions (drugs, booze, inappropriate content, food, gaming, etc).

Living in rejection of God becomes, over time, a habit. And as such a habit is maintained, the one maintaining it grows hardened in it. And the greater the hardening, the more unlikely it is that a person will turn - sincerely - toward God in the last moment of their life. It's doubtful they will even think to do so, except perhaps selfishly, having spurned Him all throughout their life. If such a person has any thought of God and the hereafter in their last moment, it will be to serve themself, as has been their habit all along, to make repentance, not about honoring God, not about responding to His love, but about protecting and serving themself. And God, of course, will respond accordingly.

3. A life of rebellion and sin blinds, deafens and scars. (Romans 1:18-32; Titus 1:15-16; 1 Timothy 4:1-2)

Not only does one grow hardened in sin over time, but one also becomes blind and deaf to moral and spiritual things, blunted to the conviction of the Spirit, calloused toward the things of God (Ephesians 4:18-19). This compounds the effect of hardening, making it even more unlikely that, in the last moment of their life, a person so affected will turn to God in sincere repentance.

4. Sin always produces death. (Romans 6:23; James 1:15; Galatians 6:7-8; Romans 8:12-13)

When one sows the "wind" of sin, one will always "reap the whirlwind" of sin. And God promises us that the harvest of our sin is always some sort of death: death of joy, of peace, of fellowship with Himself, of truth, of meaning, of conscience, of relationships, of physical and psychological health, and, ultimately, eternal "death" in hell.

5. Sin never just affects the sinner. (Romans 5:12)

Sin sends ripples outward from the sinner, harming others in a multitude of ways the sinner cannot always see. Consider the sin of Adam and Eve. Consider the sin of King David with Bathsheba. Consider the sin of Achan. And so on. As a person grows corrupted by sin, their thinking fouled and twisted by it, they behave in reflection of that corruption which always, in one way or another, hurts others. There is no sin, really, that doesn't have this effect in some way and measure. This is why Paul the apostle wrote to the Corinthian church, "A little leaven leavens the whole lump." (1 Corinthians 5:6-7)

These, then, are some of the reasons why "I'll repent in my last moment" is a powerfully foolish notion.

put your trust in Christ for salvation to forgive all your previous sins but faith without works is dead so you need to confess to others you have put your trust in Christ and does what good you can do with remaining time as you read bible God will prepare good works for you to follow as you look for opportunities to follow the gospel

Oh, dear. This is works-salvation which the Bible denies is possible. (Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5-7) You can't escape this fact by saying, "God initially saves you, but then you must preserve your salvation by doing good works." This is just pushing works-salvation back a step; but it is still works-salvation, nonetheless.

Imagine a man who falls from a boat into the ocean. He's about to drown, floundering wildly in the water, gasping his last, and then there is a man next to him who lifts his head above the water, encircles him with his arms and keeps him from drowning. The rescuer holds the drowning man for a moment and then says, "Well, I saved you from drowning. Now its up to you to stay afloat. Bye." And then the rescuer swims off, leaving the man to make it to shore - or not. Has the drowning man actually been saved by the "rescuer," if he must get himself to shore by his own effort? No. How will the drowning man get to shore if he has already nearly drowned, showing in this his utter inability to save himself?

This is exactly the case with you and I. We cannot save ourselves and we haven't the wherewithal to keep ourselves saved. God saves us and He keeps us. (Philippians 1:6; Philippians 2:13; 1 Corinthians 1:8-9; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 12:2; Jude 1:24-25)

When James wrote "faith without works is dead," he was pointing out, not the necessity of good works to Christian living, but the inevitability of such works to genuine Christian belief. Think of it this way: It is inevitable, if an apple tree is healthy and sufficiently mature, that it will produce apples. But this doesn't mean, therefore, that an apple tree must produce apples in order to be an apple tree. It isn't an apple tree only when it produces apples, right? An apple tree can only ever bear apples because it is an apple tree.

But, when we say, "A Christian must bear the fruit of good works in order to be a Christian," it is just like saying, "An apple tree must bear apples in order to be an apple tree." In both cases, though, the fruit can only be produced because of the nature - not the activity - of the thing producing the fruit.

Another example of confusing inevitability with necessity can be seen in the matter of personal possessions. Do I not first have to possess a thing in order to use it? If, say, I own a lawnmower but never use it to mow my lawn, do I not therefore possess the lawnmower? No. It's sitting in my garage; I still own it. Is it necessary to my possession of the lawnmower that I use it? No. It could sit unused in the garage for decades and still be my possession. What's more, if I don't first possess the lawnmower, I cannot cut my grass with it. I certainly don't come to possess a lawnmower by the act of mowing the grass. Now, it is inevitable that, if the mower works well, and the grass needs cutting, I'll use the mower to shorten my lawn. But, as you can see, though this is the case, it doesn't follow that using the mower to cut grass is therefore necessary to being the possessor of a lawnmower.

In the same way, I possess salvation first and then inevitably - if I'm spiritually healthy and sufficiently mature in my faith - produce corresponding good works. But the inevitability of good works to the Christian life is no more necessary to that life than using a mower is necessary to possessing it.
 
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mikeforjesus

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But if a Christian does not work when he knows he can isn’t he required to ?


Jesus says if a person knows his masters will and does not prepare himself to do His will he will be punished and even the one who does not know is punished but with less punishment

I know the bible says work out your salvation but not for your salvation but you work out your salvation by seeking God for understanding and allowing Him to produce His life in you

it does not seem inevitable to do one master will if you won’t let Him work through you to obey what He says
 
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Sophrosyne

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Salvation is a judgment of God that he "knows" if you believe him or not (faith) when you equate acceptance of Jesus works on the cross. This is nothing but faith that we can "do" to procure this and some say that God himself "gives" us the faith to be able to accept him but we have to use that faith.
As far as salvation of people near death there is a parable of the workers in the field that you should read if you it hasn't been mentioned already in the thread. The parable equates several workers God gets to work in the field. The first one he hires first thing in the morning, the next one hires half way through the day, and the last one he hires with perhaps an hour left in the work day. At the end of the day he pays all of them the same amount.

The main problems with the idea of waiting till the last minute to accept salvation is as follows:
1)If you realize the truth of the Gospel and don't act on it, you can continue to procrastinate and over time make up more and more excuses not to accept Christ to the point it hardens your heart so you in the end just don't want to do it.
2)If you realize the truth and put it off, there is no guarantee that God will protect you from death to "give you a chance" to reconsider at a later time. People die all the time in the world from things other than old age or events that they are given a time frame of which death is imminent. A 20 year old says I can accept Jesus when I'm 65 and an hour later driving home on the expressway is mowed down by an 18 wheeler and dead.
3)If you live your live like God doesn't care or matter and do what you want hurting others and with no fear or respect for anything of God are you really going to suddenly on your deathbed be any different and put no faith in God but just say the words thinking that you got by rejecting him and suddenly now he has to accept you.
I believe that there are people who have made a choice to reject God such that their lives are a testament to their faith against him.
I recall an old man that was a neighbor in his 90s that both I am another of his employees talked to about God and he didn't bite at all. The man did accept Jesus a few days before he was to die and I believe he truly accepted him as he was very kind to animals and did try and help others when he didn't have to even though he was often mean and bitter I think that he did (not knowingly) fear God and did good. I don't believe that people that don't fear God (have great respect for even) aren't going to accept salvation because to them their sins don't register as an affront to him and don't need to be forgiven or paid for so salvation has little to no meaning at all.
 
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mikeforjesus

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Thankyou for explaining I think that makes sense and is right but I believe it is still possible if a person truly wants to repent but I believe if a person delays salvation he may not find it because he does not know when he will die and if he is found living and as you said people can die unexpectedly but there is always a chance for a person who truly wants to repent and believe if he has not yet died to repent but it is harder because you must strive very hard and if you don’t you may not find it but those who found earlier are more safe but they must make sure they do not lose it some believe if one was truly saved they would not lose it and will continue bearing fruit so they seek to see if one was truly saved. It is harder to find salvation later but God has made it possible if one so desires but it has to be from one heart to truly desire which one may struggle to and it seems the foolish virgins only realised their need to repent but did not actually seek to repent or listen to the wise until it was too late they lost their chance because the bridegroom came because they did not seek earlier. For if one is not striving it can be too late and He comes. It is harder to find the oil late if you have not found it earlier and if one is not seeking Him diligently one may not find Him. If one lives in sin he does not know if he will live long and it will be hard for that person to seek the oil to repent he must seek God diligently
 
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aiki

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But if a Christian does not work when he knows he can isn’t he required to ?

Sure. But he doesn't lose his salvation if he does not. He only risks and suffers (some of) the things I explained in my last post.

Jesus says if a person knows his masters will and does not prepare himself to do His will he will be punished and even the one who does not know is punished but with less punishment

Yes? There are many things said in the Bible and we are to synthesize them together, not lift out a verse or passage here and there so that they stand in contradiction to other parts of Scripture.

I know the bible says work out your salvation but not for your salvation but you work out your salvation by seeking God for understanding and allowing Him to produce His life in you

Right. We only work out what God has first worked into us. That is the principle Paul described in Philippians 2:12, which you referred to, and in the very next verse which says that it is God who works in His children both to do, and to want to do, His will.

it does not seem inevitable to do one master will if you won’t let Him work through you to obey what He says

Remember, I said if the believer is spiritually healthy and mature, good works are inevitable - just like an apple tree that must be physically healthy and sufficiently mature in order to bear fruit. If a person is claiming to be a Christian but has no desire to God's will, they are either spiritually unhealthy or not saved.
 
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mikeforjesus

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Sure. But he doesn't lose his salvation if he does not. He only risks and suffers (some of) the things I explained in my last post.


But Jesus also taught some works as required so such works need to be produced by saving faith and the bible says we need to overcome in our trials our faith must be tested under trial if we truly have saving faith deep rooted faith that can preserve under trial with patience as Jesus said by your patience possess your souls.

Revelations 2:10-11
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’


Yes? There are many things said in the Bible and we are to synthesize them together, not lift out a verse or passage here and there so that they stand in contradiction to other parts of Scripture.


I believe it is not in contradiction to other scripture


Right. We only work out what God has first worked into us. That is the principle Paul described in Philippians 2:12 which you referred to and the very next verse which says that it is God who works in His children both to do, and to want to do, His will.




Remember, I said if the believer is spiritually healthy and mature, good works are inevitable - just like an apple tree that must be physically healthy and sufficiently mature in order to bear fruit. If a person is claiming to be a Christian but has no desire to God's will, they are either spiritually unhealthy or not saved.


It is Christ that is the vine tree and we are the branches He says it is up to the branch to abide in Him and if it does it will produce fruit if it stops bearing fruit it will be cut down
 
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aiki

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But Jesus also taught some works as required

Required for what, though? For salvation? This can't be the case in light of Ephesians 2:8-9, 2 Timothy 1:9 and Titus 3:5-7. This idea of works being required, or necessary, to Christian living also defies the doctrine of justification and the basis upon which God accepts anyone into His family. We are accepted by God only on the basis of our trust in Christ as Saviour and Lord (Ephesians 1:6-7; 1 Corinthians 1:30, John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5) whose perfect righteousness is imputed to us, covering us, and thus making us acceptable to God.

Good works are natural to a truly born-again person, they are inevitable if that person is spiritually healthy, but to say such works are required, which is to say necessary, is to go too far and contradict Scripture.

Whatever, then, you want to construe Jesus as saying, it can't be that good works are necessary, are required, to be a Christian.

Revelations 2:10-11
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

And by what means does the believer "overcome"?

1 John 4:4
4 You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world.


John 16:33
33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.”


Revelation 17:14
14 "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."


Is the "crown of life" a synonym for salvation? How could it be, since salvation is found in Jesus Himself? Christ is the Bread of Life (John 6:35); he is eternal life (1 John 5:11-12); he is the Way, the Truth, the Life (John 14:6), not a crown. If one has Christ, he has life. The "crown of life" is merely a heavenly reward given, apparently, for being faithful. But, again, this crown is not salvation and so not getting it does not mean one's salvation is lost.

I believe it is not in contradiction to other scripture

You cannot hold up one verse or passage and say, "One must do good works to be saved (or to preserve one's salvation) while other verses and passages deny this is possible. This is essentially what is the case when one contends for a works-salvation view.

It is Christ that is the vine tree and we are the branches He says it is up to the branch to abide in Him and if it does it will produce fruit if it stops bearing fruit it will be cut down

Actually, verse 6 of John 15 doesn't speak of those who are abiding in the Vine, that is, who are saved (to abide in Christ is to be saved), but of one who is not in the Vine, who is not saved, and what the eternal fate of such a person is. Jesus offered a contrast between the saved and the lost person in verses 5 and 6 of chapter 15; he did not indicate a saved person can be lost.

Don't forget: At the time Jesus said what he did in John 15:5-6, none of his disciples were actually born again, abiding in him, in the way they would after the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts 2. All of his disciples would have to come to abide in him, to be saved, just as everyone else after Christ's atonement on the cross had to be saved.
 
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mikeforjesus

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it is clear you have to overcome as revelations here says only those who overcome will not be hurt by the second death. Jesus is also clear people need to serve Him to make sure they are doing His will. He said many required commandments such as serving Him and said such way is harder difficult so He called it a narrow gate and His flock would be little because not all are striving to enter by Him to help them obey all His commandments He said he who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. He said blessed are those persecuted for righteousness sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven and people have to be faithful till death


He said pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things and stand before the Son of Man. Praying is necessary when you feel you need help to make sure you are obeying His commandments to find His will and it shows only those who do will stand before the Son of man

Revelations 2:10-11
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

Revelations 3:2
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.
 
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aiki

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it is clear you have to overcome as revelations here says only those who overcome will not be hurt by the second death.

But as the verses I offered to you indicate, we "overcome," we are overcomers, in Jesus Christ. We are in him who is the Great Overcomer. He who overcomes is he who has been placed in Christ by faith in him as Saviour and Lord (Romans 10:9-10), united with him in his overcoming work at Calvary (Romans 6:1-6; Galatians 2:20). And all who are in him are saved from the "second death."

Jesus is also clear people need to serve Him to make sure they are doing His will.

Yes, children of God ought to be serving Christ; and they will quite naturally as they grow in him and submit daily to the will and way of the Holy Spirit.

He said many required commandments such as serving Him and said such way is harder difficult so He called it a narrow gate and His flock would be little because not all are striving to enter by Him to help them obey all His commandments

You know, there is only one First and Great Commandment:

Matthew 22:36-38
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"
37 And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38 "This is the great and foremost commandment.


Paul the apostle wrote that no matter what a person may say, or know, or do, if they aren't obeying the First and Great Commandment in all of it, all their words, knowledge and good works are useless.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.


There are going to be a great many "Christians" standing before Christ at the Final Judgment who will hear from Jesus, "I never knew you." Why? Because they didn't obey his commandments? No. They went to church, and prayed, and read their Bibles, and taught Sunday School, and gave to charity, and never cheated on their spouse or looked at inappropriate content. On the surface they were very "clean," very obedient, but in their heart they were far from God.

Those people in Matthew 7:21-23 whom Jesus cast out had prophesied in his name, and in his name exorcised demons, and even performed miracles! These are all good things! And they did them in Jesus's name! Why, then, were they cast out? Because obedience to God doesn't begin with action but with a condition of the heart. God's commands start with loving Him with all of your being, not with going to church, or giving to charity, or teaching a Sunday School class. Did those whom Jesus cast out say they had loved God with all of their being? No. They just listed things they'd done, good works, external stuff that everyone could see and applaud. But if the First and Great Commandment of God is to love Him with all of one's being, why, of all God's commands, wouldn't they have claimed to have kept it? It's the First and Great Commandment! Well, because it is a whole lot easier to do stuff for God, to obey those commands of His that everyone else can see we're obeying, than to actually love God wholeheartedly.

You see, loving God has to do with desiring Him, longing for Him, yearning after Him above and before all else. This deep, all-consuming desire for God is the ground out of which all our obedience to His other commands is to arise. It is possible, though, to obey many of God's commands but to have a heart that is far from Him. This was the case with the Pharisees of Jesus's time. They were professionally obedient, the most obedient to God's commands of any of the time - at least outwardly. But inside, in their hearts, they were in constant disobedience to the First and Great Commandment. And Jesus condemned them, obedient externally as the Pharisees were, calling them hypocrites, white-washed tombs full of dead men's bones, the brood of vipers and even sons of hell.

When I see believers urging good works, threatening fellow believers with the loss of their salvation if they don't do good deeds, I always wonder if these believers are keeping the First and Great Commandment. So far, it appears they aren't, which is why they are focused on external obedience and fear of hell rather than on wanting God with a deep, consuming desire (love) that sweeps all else - Self, the World, and the devil - aside.

The Narrow Way is difficult because it is first and foremost a way that requires, not just an obedience to God externally (any old hypocrite can do this), but a changed heart, a heart that desires God above all else, that delights in Him such that no sacrifice is too high in pursuit of fellowship with Him.

Are you keeping the First and Great Commandment? Do you long for God before all else? Do you hunger after Him with everything you are? Or are you just obeying the external stuff, the stuff others can see and applaud you for?

Psalm 143:6
6 I stretch out my hands to You; My soul longs for You, as a parched land. Selah.


Psalm 42:1-2
1 As the deer pants for the water brooks, So my soul pants for You, O God.
2 My soul thirsts for God, for the living God; When shall I come and appear before God?
 
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mikeforjesus

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Yes you may be right about some things what I do must come from heart but I am not sure one can be saved if he does not overcome trials to test one faith

I know I would have desire to think though it does not seem biblical that Jesus will not reject a person who denies unwillingly but he found he could not endure but he plans to confess later but one could kill a person but that is a false teaching Jesus says he who seeks to gain his life will lose it I know one may wish to wonder if maybe Jesus didn’t require it which I did think maybe when Jesus said none shall snatch from My hand and as Paul says none shall separate us from God love but only if a person refuses to confess Christ after he is persecuted and not refusing to do so not willing to show one loyalty to Christ and not if one finds he can not endure it but only when one denies because he rejects Jesus and is afraid not to be approved by others God will judge. But that is not real loyalty to Christ because denying Him means you are showing to others Christ is not necessary and that you can choose to go back to not confessing Him as though any religion matters and can lead to heaven which is not what Christ taught

However I do not believe it is biblical because Jesus requires to prove faithful to Christ. Jesus says no one shall snatch My sheep from My hand. He also says My sheep hear My voice and follow Me because they are His sheep He will preserve them. And Paul says he is convinced nothing shall be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. It seems to refer to those who seek true relationship with Him or who do so if they are in His hands they are safe. Therefore Jesus says do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul fear Him who is able to destroy body and soul in hell

Jesus teaches us to be watchful to turn to Him now and be watchful because there is no promise if a person sins that he will have chance to repent as it will be late one time when Jesus decides it as he said if a person says his master delays his coming and drinks with drunkards his master will come when he is not looking for Him and at an hour he is not aware perhaps not always meaning to die without given chance to repent but to come when repentance is not sufficient if he is not striving to repent at a time which he should be at all times to be safe
 
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aiki

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Yes you may be right about some things what I do must come from heart but I am not sure one can be saved if he does not overcome trials to test one faith

Friend, why did Jesus have to die if you can earn your way into God's kingdom? Was Christ's atoning work on the cross so weak, so ineffective, that you must contribute your own faithfulness and work to it in order to be accepted by God?

God tests our faith so that we might see the truth about our faith, to see it stripped of all the illusions we have about our ability to please God. And when we see just how weak we are, how totally unable we are to come anywhere close to the holy perfection that God demands of us, then we throw ourselves upon Christ, upon the Spirit, in total dependence, which we must do if we are going to walk well with God.

Jesus had to die because we could not save ourselves, because we could never fully atone for our own wickedness, because we could not ever meet God's standard of holy perfection. Jesus did for us what we could not do for ourselves. When we say, though, that God wants us to add our own effort to Christ's atonement, when we make our ability to remain faithful and obedient the basis upon which we retain our salvation, then we deny our utter inability to please God and stand in the place of the Saviour as our own saviour; for it is ultimately your own faithfulness and obedience that saves you, not the atoning work of Christ.

Has Christ's salvation of you been complete and perfect - as the Bible says it is - if you must add your own faithfulness and work to make it stick? As I pointed out, this is like being saved from drowning by a man who then releases you to swim to shore on your own. Has he really saved you? No. You will just drown again, if you must get yourself to shore. But this is what you're proposing, essentially, if you must "swim to shore" by dint of your own faithfulness and obedience. In this case, Christ hasn't really saved you; he has merely postponed your "drowning."

it does not seem biblical that Jesus will not reject a person who denies unwillingly but he found he could not endure but he plans to confess later but one could kill a person

"By their fruit you shall know them," Jesus said. We reveal in our conduct whether or not we have been truly saved, or how spiritually healthy we are. But we can't earn our way into being born-again and we can't earn our way out of it, either. If someone says, "I'm a Christian!" but lives without qualm like the devil, his fruit reveals he has not been saved.

God looks on the heart and judges us there. Do you think God could not see the falseness and selfishness in the heart of a person who thinks to live wickedly until the last moment and then turn to God? Of course He can. And He judges such a person accordingly, whatever last-minute attempts at repentance the person makes.

if one finds he can not endure it but only when one denies because he rejects Jesus and is afraid not to be approved by others God will judge

Did Peter not deny Christ? Yes, he did. Three times. Did Jesus reject Peter when they met again after Jesus's resurrection? No. Did Jesus say, "How dare you deny me! Begone! You aren't one of mine"? No. Instead, Jesus asked Peter if he loved him. That was Jesus's concern; not Peter's actions or words, but the state of Peter's heart toward him. And when Peter said he did love him, Jesus simply asked him to feed the sheep of the flock of God.

However I do not believe it is biblical because Jesus requires to prove faithful to Christ.

Does an apple tree prove it is an apple tree by bearing fruit? No. It just bears apples because that's what apple trees do. It's only hypocrites, Pharisees, who want to prove they are saved by their obedience. True born-again believers just bear fruit because that's what they do when the Holy Spirit is within them, changing them into godly people. They don't say to themselves, "I must prove myself!" No, they just love Jesus and the good works flow as a natural result of that love. No proving necessary.

Jesus says no one shall snatch My sheep from My hand. He also says My sheep hear My voice and follow Me because they are His sheep He will preserve them.

Yes. So when a person is not "hearing the voice of the Shepherd" it means they are not saved, not that they once were saved but now are not.

Therefore Jesus says do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul fear Him who is able to destroy body and soul in hell

Did Jesus say this to born-again believers? No. He was speaking to the lost who are in terrible, constant danger of hell.
 
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d taylor

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condition for people to be saved in their last moments
______________________

The condition is the same as if someone had 50 more years to live their life.
Believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah from The prophecies of The Tanakh and Trust in the promised Messiah (Jesus) for Gods free gift of Eternal Life.
 
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mikeforjesus

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Faith justifies the saving faith not intellectual faith but trust in Jesus to save you but that does not mean works are not necessary but they will be a result of that faith just as Abraham trusted God and was justified but proof of that is he obeyed God. Faith had to be followed by action being the proof of the faith

Everyone who truly believed in Jesus not just intellectually did come to Him to trust Him and through that faith they will work and be empowered to work they only need to exercise trust when they need it


Maybe I can be self righteous or don’t see not that I am not worthy of salvation and fall short of glory of God but that my righteousness is really filthy rags and is just from Christ not believing I have any righteousness of my own to make me feel I am righteous because of my past obedience but it being required such humility is desired by Christ but I don’t think required as one does not know but one must only know he falls short of glory of God it does not present gospel message properly for to have assurance of salvation Jesus requires to trust in Him to save them as He said whoever falls on that stone will be broken but on whoever it falls he will be crushed. If you never have been humbled you will never even know your need of Christ at all the more you see the righteousness of Christ the greater can be your confidence in the blood of Christ and helps you have boldness in trials but you can still be saved if you trust and overcome but you don’t know as much how much you can trust


I think everyone who believes is justified and falls on that stone because they have come to him before because they know they are a sinner and need forgiveness but they can not be sure to trust unless they fall on that stone to allow them to be broken


Jesus is clear that only those who do His will are saved and said blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake for theirs is the kingdom of heaven and he who finds his life will lose it and he who loses his life for My sake will find it


I have shown you clearly as revelations 2:10-11 says only those who are faithful unto death will be saved saying he who overcomes that trial will not be hurt by second death. These are the teachings of Jesus and you have to teach the truth

People must also make the decision to follow Christ to take up one cross daily to follow Him and serve Him


Revelations 2:10-11
10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”

Luke 9:23-27
23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”


Mark 8:34-35
34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, “Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospels will save it.
 
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mikeforjesus

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Actually I don’t see. I don’t believe what you say is true that if works do not follow true faith if one has opportunity or is tested that it can be true. I have not been convinced by you people are not blamed for being blind unless they never wanted to see which Christ ensures they see if they remain open if a person keeps arguing but because they claim to see without wanting to see. I also can keep arguing I don’t mind but I won’t admit to what you say unless I am convinced
 
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mikeforjesus

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In what way ? Do you agree if works do not follow true faith if one has opportunity or is tested that it can not be true ? If so I was not unwilling to see I could not see what you were trying to show me or I may not have wanted to see what you were saying as I assumed you were trying to teach something false
Or maybe you mean because I say faith can not be true if not followed by works maybe I should have said it is not a faith that will be able to save or maybe not genuine saving faith because a faith that saves is always tested by whatever trials it needs to be tested of to see if it is genuine and saving and overcomes and those with true faith will seek to do what they know Christ instructed of them to do
 
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mikeforjesus

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I said above that we should not compromise the gospel but I thought to show care by teaching God is fair and gave everyone a chance but I don’t know if that would help them if they think I am being insensitive and I should of been silent for I don’t know if person accepted gospel or that I believe a non believer could be saved if one accepted Jesus but did not confess it. But for some it may be possible but not safe because it may be rare and only Jesus knows if it is possible if one accepted Jesus in last moments one can be saved if it was genuine and one wants to confess

There is no communion between believers and non believers. A person can’t become a Christian and act like belief does not matter.
If Christians spend time with non believers it should not be to accept others as can be saved following another religion but to preach the gospel
 
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