Paul was celibate and remained unmarried. He advised others to do the same, especially the young unmarried women Have a nice day.
This is incorrect. As stated, twice now, God's law states that man has dominion over woman. Furthermore, Paul states that women in general, not just his spouse and children, are to follow such law. Thus, when Paul decrees the following:
"11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
(3rd request) Does God agree? I'll answer for you, since you refuse.
The answer is likely yes. God agrees, as the rules go as follows: God > Christ > man > woman.
Thanks for the unfalsifiable sermon.
I think that honor is yours. You anointed yourself arbitrator of relevancy in post #39.
Maybe you are since it's your OP. But then you should expect the result when you shut someone down like that.
What utter rubbish. If God is displeased with her, I'd love to be that out of favour with God. Women are exhorted to teach other women. If men get blessed, then that's a bonus.Why should I? We already know that all fall short of God's standard, no matter who you are. I'm saying that women who teach, women who do not remain quiet, and women who lead men, appear to raise discord with God (at some categorical level). As I stated in the OP, I'm not sure if this discord is designated exclusively to church, and/or in school, and/or in employment, and/or the military, and/or the household, or maybe all of them?
If (1 Timothy 2:8-15) is correct, then I'm right, and it's you whom are wrong. Are you saying this is not what God meant? If so, what does He actually mean here? At some categorical level, women are to remain quiet, not have authority over mean, and not teach.
Then maybe you are a "cafeteria" Christian?
You can believe whatever you'd like. But if God is speaking about teaching His Word, at some level, it looks as though God is perpetually displeased with what she is doing.
What utter rubbish.
If God is displeased with her, I'd love to be that out of favour with God.
Women are exhorted to teach other women. If men get blessed, then that's a bonus.
What do you know about Joyce Meyer? Do you know her childhood? Do you know how many broken women she's helped to restore? I know personally three women who have been lifted out of depression by her teaching. Many of the principles she espouses are not gender specific. Like I said, no one is compelled to listen to her.
I don't know what you mean by "cafeteria Christian".
By the way, it's "Who are wrong", not "whom".
It is dangerous to take scriptures in isolation and make a doctrine out of them. That's how the false prosperity type gospel and it's associated misunderstandings arose.
Finally, do yourself a favour. Read God's word.
Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him in and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Titus 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behaviour, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children.......
If a woman is rebellious and independent of her husband, then she is disqualified as a minister. If husbands fail to love their wives as Christ loves the church, they are way out of order also.
To clarify my position, I would not attend a church where to woman is the pastor.
Dismissing women because they are women is unbiblical.
I take issue with your blanket statement, especially regarding Joyce Meyer. Perhaps my response is too subtle for you.Thank you
I feel you are missing my point. Please carefully re-read what I stated to you in my previous response (post #24).
Can women lead men? Can women be the authority over men? According to 1 Timothy 2, seems not to be the case? I'm not quite sure in what specific capacity/category however?
I already answered here. I don't think I need to really "know" her any better. The point of this thread is to ask if she is displeasing God, with her ministry? It's quite possible she might be? You claim she is not. However, we have Scripture to demonstrate otherwise - (to remain quiet, not teach, and not have authority over men).
I'll let you figure this one out. You can then see if your actions qualify.
This isn't an English Lit. class It's an informal forum arena. Maybe I should start pointing out your type-o's
The provided Verses (1 Timothy 2:11-15) look pretty dang clear. We also have other Verses to substantiate or reinforce such assertion(s). From your perspective, at worst, the Bible adheres to the cited Verses, without any reservation and with complete clarity, as asserted in (1 Tim. 2). For you, at best, you have conflict to address.
I find this response odd, since you just told me not to cherry pick Scripture?
Can a single woman be the head of a church? We know a single man can.
(See the bold text above). BTW, it's 'the', and not 'to'.
Why would you not attend a church, where the woman is the pastor?
And yet, such passages look to exist within the Bible. Furthermore, dismissing churches, because the pastors are women, is you admitting you have no other reason not to attend, other than "because they are women".
1. Men are to head up the household. It helps to look up the word "husband". It does not mean to dominate and subjugate.
2. Elders in the church are supposed to be married men whose house is in order. There are plenty of elders who fail this test dismally
3. Pastors given far more prominence that the NT allows. Church governance should be by elders, who should also be able to teach.
4. Prophets can be male or female
5. Teachers can be male or female. They are gifts to the body generally and not the local church. They have no authority in that sense. However, if they are godly people it is foolish to ignore them.
6. Husbands and wives can minister as a team, as is obvious from the word.
7. Christians should submit to one another. What I mean by this is that each Christian is called by God for a particular ministry and purpose. The "pyramid" structure of leadership is false and has led to passive Christians who take little responsibility for their own spiritual growth.
8. Women are permitted, no, exhorted to teach other women. Or is that scripture too opaque for you to understand?
9. Evangelists can be male or female. Psalm 68:11
It's difficult to know what to say to someone who regards women the way that you do, but as you seem to see things biblically, I'm not that surprised.
Maybe we should look at just one thing: demographic decline.
A woman leading a church probably means years of education and focus on career. No problem, right? Except there is little time for children. Too much of that means a broad demographic decline across a country.
I'm sorry, but I have to respond here...
1. Does this apply to all careers, or just leading in church?
2. If the woman wants to lead, can't the father be the stay-at-home-dad? The mother can still see her kids daily after work.
3. Furthermore, doesn't the Bible tell His readers that God comes first, even before your own biological family?
4. Not all women would want to lead any way. There exists only so many churches. Why can't the ones that want to, lead?
When the Bible says don't do X sometimes the real problem is not with X but the next level up.
The problem with women leading the church is not so much about women leading the church but rather everybody else. Another example, the problem with gay marriage is not gay marriage but rather everybody else.
It doesn't matter if all women leading the church have 10 kids each with stay-at-home dads. What matters is what all the other women do after seeing those women leaders. The reality is, and we can see that today, if women focus on education and career then they have too few kids.
Gay marriage is the other way around. Society already decided that marriage was not about kids. So why not legalize gay marriage? Gay marriage is just a sign that the rest of society has gone off the rails. Increasingly for straight people, why get married and why have kids?
It's not gays or gay marriage. It's about all the others.
The scripture does say Adam came first and Eve was the one deceived, and therefore the woman should not have authority over the man. I think this is a pretty straightforward interpretation.Does this sound reasonable?
The scripture does say Adam came first and Eve was the one deceived, and therefore the woman should not have authority over the man. I think this is a pretty straightforward interpretation.
Even so . . . how about 1 Corinthians 7:4? This says the wife has power over her husband's body. That would be a way of having authority over him, I would think.
I consider there is more to it, than this.Sounds like you are in agreement with God, that women cannot be leaders in church, and/or the military, and/or in school, and/or the household, other. And when they do, this displeases God.
I consider there is more to it, than this.
What do you see, in the qualifications of a man who desires to be a "bishop"? > 1 Timothy 3:1-10.
The man needs his wife. So, you need both as a couple. Before the couple becomes qualified to pastor, first he needs to become "blameless" the way God's love makes us blameless. And his wife helps him to learn how to love, in marriage, and get real correction > Hebrews 12:4-14 > so he becomes "blameless" the way God's love cures our character. She helps him get this real correction. Plus, they learn with each other, how to relate in Christian marriage . . . so then they as a mature married couple can pastor other married people and singles so they can discover how to share in marriage.In the provided passage, can you be a female? Or, do you have to be a male?
The man needs his wife. So, you need both as a couple. Before the couple becomes qualified to pastor, first he needs to become "blameless" the way God's love makes us blameless. And his wife helps him to learn how to love, in marriage, and get real correction > Hebrews 12:4-14 > so he becomes "blameless" the way God's love cures our character. She helps him get this real correction. Plus, they learn with each other, how to relate in Christian marriage . . . so then they as a mature married couple can pastor other married people and singles so they can discover how to share in marriage.
So, you need both . . . not just a man.
And it is written >
"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
He leads by example, then. And his wife and children are included in his example . . . of how to care for and lead people in our Father's family caring and sharing way in marriage. So, they need to be mature in their marriage, so now they can relate with and help other couples . . . doing this with one another as God's example of Christian marriage.