What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

East of Eden

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Apostolic succession, as shown by Paul to Timothy and Titus, and the Apostles to Matthias.

Apostolic succession in teaching what Jesus and the apostles taught, of which there is very little in the RCC. Can you imagine Jesus or Paul living in a palace wearing the pope's get up?
 
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Jamdoc

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Wouldn't Jesus realize that and clarify? But he didn't. He doubled down.
He did clarify, verse 63.

Human blood, I agree with you. But Jesus' blood wasn't human.
Nowhere was a distinction made, it's just against consuming blood that the law was commanded.

Then be free! Don't do what he said. That's the point of this thread. What if Jesus meant what he said? You say he didn't. OK. Bye!
He meant what He said just not as you understand it. The flesh profiteth nothing.

Actually, "Baptism now saves you." 1 Peter 3
the parenthesis are put in an unfortunate spot.. but it's actually "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"
It's not the water baptism that saves you, it's the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You got that right! It's Jesus doing it, actually the Holy Spirit. Not the one pouring the water or doing the dunking.
and yet your emphasis is on the rituals.
 
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Valletta

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"In the Catholic Church, the veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus, encompasses various Marian devotions which include prayer, pious acts, visual arts, poetry, and music devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary." Wikipedia

Mary can't hear your prayers, like the rest of us, she was a sinner in need of Christ's redemption. The
"In the Catholic Church, the veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus, encompasses various Marian devotions which include prayer, pious acts, visual arts, poetry, and music devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary." Wikipedia

Mary can't hear your prayers, like the rest of us, she was a sinner in need of Christ's redemption. The Bible also says she gave birth to other children, contrary to RCC doctrine. Yes, she was a good example, would that we all had her attitude, "I am the Lord's servant, may it be to me as you have said."



There was a recent movement to have Mary declared 'co-redemtrix', rediculous.



And you should read 'Roman Catholicism' by Boettner.



Islamic Jihadists do that regularly, it doesn't mean their beliefs are true.

Bible also says she gave birth to other children, contrary to RCC doctrine. Yes, she was a good example, would that we all had her attitude, "I am the Lord's servant, may it be to me as you have said."



There was a recent movement to have Mary declared 'co-redemtrix', rediculous.



And you should read 'Roman Catholicism' by Boettner.



Islamic Jihadists do that regularly, it doesn't mean their beliefs are true.
The Bible does not say Mary "gave birth to other children."
 
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East of Eden

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The Bible does not say Mary "gave birth to other children." That is an outright fabrication.

Bunk, the Bible, not to mention Josephus, says Jesus had brothers and sisters, where did they come from? IMHO the root of this bad doctrine is that the RCC sees normal marital relations as somehow involving sin, which is why they hold to the equally unbiblical doctrine of mandatory priestly celibacy. Did Mary also never go to the bathroom?
 
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Valletta

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Yes, queen of an earthly kingdom, not Queen of Heaven, only pagan religions had that title.
There are no pagan queens in Heaven. The Bible says: "A great sign appeared in the heavens, a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars."
 
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Valletta

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Bunk, the Bible, not to mention Josephus, says Jesus had brothers and sisters, where did they come from? IMHO the root of this bad doctrine is that the RCC sees normal marital relations as somehow involving sin, which is why they hold to the equally unbiblical doctrine of mandatory priestly celibacy. Did Mary also never go to the bathroom?
Please stop misrepresenting the Catholic Church. Instead of making up stories about Catholics please cite the Catholic Catechism for Catholic beliefs.
 
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East of Eden

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There are no pagan queens in Heaven. The Bible says: "A great sign appeared in the heavens, a woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars."

Which has what to do with Mary? Jesus held his mother in no such hyper reverence. He said "Who is my mother and brethern? Those who do My will."

If Mary was sinless, why did she ever have to die?
 
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East of Eden

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Please stop misrepresenting the Catholic Church. Instead of making up stories about Catholics please cite the Catholic Catechism for Catholic beliefs.

I'd rather cite the Bible. Reminds me of a guy I know who grew up Catholic, and is now an evangelical protestant. He would read the Bible and see the obvious contradictions between it and the RCC, when he asked his priest about them he was told, "If you'd quit reading the Bible you wouldn't have these questions."
 
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Valletta

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Which has what to do with Mary? Jesus held his mother in no such hyper reverence. He said "Who is my mother and brethern? Those who do My will."

If Mary was sinless, why did she ever have to die?
We don't know that she died. Yes, Mary did the will of God, that is why all generations (that includes you and me) are to call her blessed.
 
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Valletta

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I'd rather cite the Bible. Reminds me of a guy I know who grew up Catholic, and is now an evangelical protestant. He would read the Bible and see the obvious contradictions between it and the RCC, when he asked his priest about them he was told, "If you'd quit reading the Bible you wouldn't have these questions."
In fact when the Catholic Church chose the 73 books of the Bible any text that was not 100 percent in compliance with Catholic teaching was rejected.
 
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chad kincham

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They do mean exactly as they read. The problem is with us and our interpretations.

God has always forbidden drinking the blood of the sacrifice, the Old Testament is very specific - and Paul restated that gentiles still must abstain from drinking/eating blood - thus its blatantly obvious that communion is a symbolic eating and drinking.

Jesus also said it’s done in remembrance of His sacrifice of Himself for us.

And finally, Paul taught how to take communion - and missing completely from his teaching, is the need for a priest to convert the elements to real flesh and real blood, before taking it.

That’s because transubstantiatiion is a bogus doctrine.
 
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Dave L

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Why would people become martyrs for something false? Sorry, it wasn't small. Constantine saw the writing on the wall-the Church was bigger than he thought, he had a vision and a conversion, and legalized Christianity.
Many martyrs and true believers. But few in comparison to the world of unbelievers.
 
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Dave L

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No he didn't. @The Liturgist knows his history.
History shows Constantine made Christianity the preferred religion and pagans flooded the institutional churches. The NT Church (believers only) could not be taken over because it was not a man-made institution.
 
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Dave L

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Nope! HE was specifically speaking to Peter.
“Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee [all believers], go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 18:15–18 (KJV 1900)
 
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Matt5

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Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

Well, maybe they don't mean exactly what they say. Why? Because the return of Jesus will be no surprise. He comes 7 years after the Antichrist appears and 1290 days "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up. (Daniel 12:11-12)"

So who should be surprised by the return of Jesus? Anyone who can't read?

So clearly the scriptures mean something else. What could that be?
 
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GraceBro

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God has always forbidden drinking the blood of the sacrifice, the Old Testament is very specific - and Paul restated that gentiles still must abstain from drinking/eating blood - thus its blatantly obvious that communion is a symbolic eating and drinking.

Jesus also said it’s done in remembrance of His sacrifice of Himself for us.

And finally, Paul taught how to take communion - and missing completely from his teaching, is the need for a priest to convert the elements to real flesh and real blood, before taking it.

That’s because transubstantiatiion is a bogus doctrine.
Are you sure you replied to the correct individual? I don't know what you are talking about since I didn't say anything about this subject matter.
 
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Root of Jesse

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"In the Catholic Church, the veneration of Mary, mother of Jesus, encompasses various Marian devotions which include prayer, pious acts, visual arts, poetry, and music devoted to the Blessed Virgin Mary." Wikipedia
Veneration is different than worship. And Wiki is often different than serious research.
Mary can't hear your prayers, like the rest of us, she was a sinner in need of Christ's redemption. The Bible also says she gave birth to other children, contrary to RCC doctrine. Yes, she was a good example, would that we all had her attitude, "I am the Lord's servant, may it be to me as you have said."
Maybe you don't believe Mary is in heaven, but we do. Revelation says those in heaven hear our prayers, and pray with us. Mary never sinned. I know, Romans 3, but if you believe that all means all, then you must believe Jesus Himself sinned. Nowhere in Scripture does it say Mary gave birth to other children. It does mention Jesus' brothers, but that, again, is different.
There was a recent movement to have Mary declared 'co-redemtrix', rediculous.
If I'm mowing my lawn and my young boy wants to 'help' me push the mower, he would be a co-mower. Even if he doesn't help a bit. By the same token, Mary, who said to the steward at the wedding feast, says 'Do whatever he tells you', is co-redemptrix. But that hasn't been nailed down, so just like all your protestant denominations, it's a proposal worth considering.
And you should read 'Roman Catholicism' by Boettner.
I've read some of it. Rediculous.
Islamic Jihadists do that regularly, it doesn't mean their beliefs are true.
Committing suicide is different than being a martyr.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Bunk. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:10 'as it is written:

“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”



Who said they were dead?



Nonsense, see The Bible seems to suggest that Mary had other children | carm.org

The Jewish historian Josephus mentions James, the brother of Jesus.

"In the 3rd century, biological relatives with a connection to the nuclear family of Jesus, without explicit reference to brothers or sisters, were called the desposyni,[7] from the Greek δεσπόσυνοι, plural of δεσπόσυνος, meaning "of or belonging to the master or lord".[8] The term was used by Sextus Julius Africanus, a writer of the early 3rd century." Wikipedia

The etymology of the Greek word for "brother" (adelphos) is “of the same womb,” a-delphys.
Seems to suggest isn't definitive. The Bible NEVER says Mary had other children. Jesus having brothers is different.
 
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