20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Clare73 said:

How else could you determine if all prophecy were literal?
So the resurrection from spiritual death to eternal life in the new birth was only physical?

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The church has not been glorified, which is the spiritual birth. Your so called spiritual change is only physical, or if you insist, nothing has changed. A soul has literally nothing right now, according to most.

You are not the Holy Spirit, but only have the Holy Spirit on credit. Your soul is still literally bankrupt. Then the claim is just the soul in heaven and the physical is on the last day, whatever they interpret that to be.

Christ promised us certain things, and most theology denies that and claims ideology that is impossible, like sin no longer exist in the last 1990 years.

Life in Christ currently is only physical. The church still is waiting to be glorified and the rejoining of the spirit. The OT church had to wait for the Cross to receive their physical permanent bodies in Paradise. That is why Jesus preached that the soul was in Abraham's bosom until He took the sting of death away physically on the Cross. That was the last day of physical death. All in Christ have been made physically alive in the New birth. The physical birth is the first birth. The spirit is the second birth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that is the first birth, death, and resurrection. Adam died physically that day, he lost his incorruptible God made body, for a corruptible body, that would only produce corruptible offspring.

Adam was also separated from the spirit, the second death. That which is born of the spirit is spirit. That is the second birth, death, and the glorification process. A demon is a spirit that can no longer be glorified with a soul, but cast into the lake of fire forever.

No soul in Paradise has been glorified which is the spiritual birth at the Second Coming. The use of spirit has been conflated with only God and heaven, and the physical relegated to only earth. That is not the case. The spiritual and physical is one equally created universe of existence. We are both physically and spiritually dead at the moment.

Timtofly said:

The church has not been glorified, which is the spiritual birth.

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Says who?

Paul states those "he justified, he also glorified"--past tense (Ro 8:30).

Your so called spiritual change is only physical, or if you insist, nothing has changed. A soul has literally nothing right now, according to most.

You are not the Holy Spirit, but only have the Holy Spirit on credit. Your soul is still literally bankrupt. Then the claim is just the soul in heaven and the physical is on the last day, whatever they interpret that to be.

Christ promised us certain things, and most theology denies that and claims ideology that is impossible, like sin no longer exist in the last 1990 years.

Life in Christ currently is only physical. The church still is waiting to be glorified and the rejoining of the spirit. The OT church had to wait for the Cross to receive their physical permanent bodies in Paradise. That is why Jesus preached that the soul was in Abraham's bosom until He took the sting of death away physically on the Cross. That was the last day of physical death. All in Christ have been made physically alive in the New birth. The physical birth is the first birth. The spirit is the second birth.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that is the first birth, death, and resurrection. Adam died physically that day, he lost his incorruptible God made body, for a corruptible body, that would only produce corruptible offspring.

Adam was also separated from the spirit, the second death. That which is born of the spirit is spirit. That is the second birth, death, and the glorification process. A demon is a spirit that can no longer be glorified with a soul, but cast into the lake of fire forever.

No soul in Paradise has been glorified which is the spiritual birth at the Second Coming. The use of spirit has been conflated with only God and heaven, and the physical relegated to only earth. That is not the case. The spiritual and physical is one equally created universe of existence. We are both physically and spiritually dead at the moment.

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jeffweedaman said:

Yes, of course he will. That is what he said.

He will glorify all those who have believed and wash in his blood.
They are the first fruits who believe and are born again and already seated in the heavenly realms...., awaiting the resurrection of the body the last day....., the blessed hope of his appearing in the glory of his Father.

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Then the last day physical resurrection was at the Cross. There is no more last Day physical resurrection. It has already happened for those in Christ.


Otherwise Jesus will not have a physical resurrection until some time in the future? An alledged last day still to come?

Clare73 said:

Says who?

Paul states those "he justified, he also glorified"--past tense (Ro 8:30).

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Says John in Revelation 6. Says Paul when the church is offered up to God complete at the Second Coming. Ephesians 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

This is ongoing until the Second Coming. Then the church will be whole and complete. No more church added after the 6th Seal.

Paul says the change does not happen to those alive until that moment. John says it happens at the opening of the 5th Seal to the souls under the alter, in Paradise.

The state of all was confirmed on the Cross before Creation. That was a fact before God even created the universe.

How can you accept glorified before the soul even has a physical body that you deny? Do you even accept the soul currently has an incorruptible body? Most here say all that happens at the GWT. The 5th and 6th Seal happen way before anything else in Revelation.

The last day physical resurrection was on the Cross. All in Paradise currently have a permanent physical body.

Timtofly said:

Says John in Revelation 6. Says Paul when the church is offered up to God complete at the Second Coming. Ephesians 5:25-27

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The Church is already clean (Jn 15:3), raised up and seated in the heavenly realms with Christ (Eph 2:6).

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

This is ongoing until the Second Coming. Then the church will be whole and complete. No more church added after the 6th Seal.

Paul says the change does not happen to those alive until that moment. John says it happens at the opening of the 5th Seal to the souls under the alter, in Paradise.

The state of all was confirmed on the Cross before Creation. That was a fact before God even created the universe.

How can you accept glorified before the soul even has a physical body that you deny? Do you even accept the soul currently has an incorruptible body? Most here say all that happens at the GWT. The 5th and 6th Seal happen way before anything else in Revelation.

The last day physical resurrection was on the Cross. All in Paradise currently have a permanent physical body.

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Clare73 said:

The Church is already clean (Jn 15:3), raised up and seated in the heavenly realms with Christ (Eph 2:6).

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There are some church still on earth. Not complete yet.

Timtofly said:

Then the last day physical resurrection was at the Cross. There is no more last Day physical resurrection. It has already happened for those in Christ.


Otherwise Jesus will not have a physical resurrection until some time in the future? An alledged last day still to come?

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.....When is your physical resurrection Tim?
This is when it will happen for us
1Thess 4
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

sovereigngrace said:

"The new covenant" is here identified with "the Lord's death." There is no way around it.

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Jesus has done His part or the NC, but we have yet to prove our faith and trust in Him for our part.
This test will come upon the whole world. Isaiah 66:15-17, and many will fail it, as what they fondly believed did not happen.

jeffweedaman said:

.....When is your physical resurrection Tim?
This is when it will happen for us
1Thess 4
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

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I have not been given an incorruptible body as of this moment.

All those in Paradise currently have an incorruptible physical body. The soul cannot be found naked. If you accept naked souls hanging out with each other, that is an opinion I will not argue with.

Timtofly said:

I have not been given an incorruptible body as of this moment.

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When do you get yours?

[ QUOTE Tim .... All those in Paradise currently have an incorruptible physical body. ]

If that was true then the dead in Christ would have no need to rise at his coming.

1Thess 4
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.


Both the living and dead in Christ are gloriously changed together.

jeffweedaman said:

When do you get yours?

[ QUOTE Tim .... All those in Paradise currently have an incorruptible physical body. ]

If that was true then the dead in Christ would have no need to rise at his coming.

1Thess 4
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.


Both the living and dead in Christ are gloriously changed together.

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What is being raised? Those in Christ have been raised first. The living have not prevented them. Do you have the power to stop the soul in transit from one body to another? Paul understood it was an ongoing process, because he claimed to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord in a more permanent body.

Glorification will happen at the Second Coming at the opening of the 5th and 6th Seals.

All will have been changed by that point, and glorified. All referring to the church only, not all of humanity.

There is a claim that over 25% of humanity are Christians. I do not think that is the church. The church comes from every type of society, not just a particular named religion.

Why would I know when this human flesh of mine is going to die? Paul did not know, because he expected to be alive.

sovereigngrace said:

You never give Scripture to support your beliefs - because it does not exist. Occasionally you give references that make no allusion to what you are arguing. Scripture forbids your error.

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This point of yours lacks Scripture in the post, can we just remove it from the record as just attacking my posting style instead of having a discussion on the topic?

I accept your opinion will never change, or so it seems.

sovereigngrace said:

You are ducking around the text because it forbids your theory. There is multiple Scripture above that you have avoided. You have to to sustain your position.

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I have proved that the New Covenant will be made when all the Lord's people are present in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 32:37-40, Isaiah 33:24, Ezekiel 37:26, +
It is those who wrongly believe the Jesus has made a Covenant with us now, who have no scriptural support.

Anyway; why argue about the New Covenant? We will see it in due course of events.
The issue of this thread is the pre-mill doctrine. Jesus WILL Return pre-Millennium, because He will be here as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
What will NOT happen is a pre-mill 'rapture to heaven'.

sovereigngrace said:

This has nothing to do with style. This is to do with substance and pattern.

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Or just complaining in general from the complainer about how I post.

Timtofly said:

What is being raised?

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Bodily resurrection of all those who have come to believe in Jesus throughout the whole gospel era on the last day when he appears .


[ Those in Christ have been raised first. The living have not prevented them. ]

The dead in Christ have not been bodily raised yet. The living will not precede them in this.
When he appears we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is..

1Jn 3
Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.



When he appears at the last trump then the living and dead in Christ will be changed like him.

There is one flock of sheep Gathered the last day from all nations who will inherit glorification.... not 2.



Jn
10 “Truly, truly I say to you, the one who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. 2 But the one who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he puts all his own sheep outside, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 However, a stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers.” 6 Jesus told them this figure of speech, but they did not understand what the things which He was saying to them meant.

7 So Jesus said to them again, “Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All those who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came so that they would have life, and have it abundantly.

11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters the flock. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own, and My own know Me, 15 just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice; and they will become one flock, with one shepherd.