Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

BobRyan · Feb 28, 2021

imge said:
With the growing number of churches that are teaching God’s laws are a thing of the past citing arguments like “we are not under the law we are under grace” or “Gods laws are only for the Jews ” I thought I would create a post to examine what does the Bible teach us about the laws of God. If we remove God's laws what are we really teaching and what are we removing from our lives?

Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 13: 5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
According to scripture we should test ourselves to ensure we are in the faith.

My pastor preached a beautiful sermon on this topic so I wanted to share here.

What happens if we remove Gods laws? Is God’s character in Gods laws? If we remove His laws are we removing God?

God is Good:
Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God

God’s law is Good:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Holy:
Isaiah 5:16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment,
And God who is holy shall be hallowed in righteousness.

God’s law is Holy:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Just:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

God’s law are Just: Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Perfect:
Mathew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

God’s law is Perfect:
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

God is Love
1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

God's law is Love:
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

God is Righteous
Exodus 9:27 2 And Pharaoh sent and called for Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “I have sinned this time. The Lord is righteous, and my people and I are wicked.

God’s law are Righteous
Psalms 19:9 The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever. The decrees of the LORD are firm, and all of them are righteous.

God is Truth:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

God’s laws is Truth:
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. Psalms 119:151 You are near, O LORD, And all Your commandments are truth.

God is Pure:
1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

God’s laws are Pure:
Psalms 19:8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;

God is Spiritual:
John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

God’s law is Spiritual:
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God is Unchangeable:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God’s laws are Unchangeable:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

God is Eternal
Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

God’s laws are Eternal
Psalms 111:7,8 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, And are done in truth and uprightness

Considering God’s character is reflected in Gods laws, when we remove God’s law what else are we removing?

Yes, we are saved by grace (God’s gift) but what else does the Word of God tell us?

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

1 John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Mathew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

God's commandments are found in Exodus 20

God bless

Thank you for posting that list - very helpful.

In Rom 3:31 - "do we then make VOID the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! in fact we establish the Law".

Where as Paul reminds us in Eph 6:1-2 that law "established" includes the TEN where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment in that special unit of TEN.

In Romans 8:4-9 we find that the lost "do not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" - as noted below.

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him

Religiot · Feb 28, 2021

Nathan@work said:
Think about it a little more.

With respect, I didn't think about it at all: I just defer to what God says--I'll post the reference further below.

Nathan@work said:
When Adam ate, he then knew evil. Not good from evil.

Adam didn't know either, but ate for another reason.

Nathan@work said:
Had Adam and Eve been allowed to stay in the garden, and continue to eat, then they would have grown in the knowledge of good and evil - becoming wiser.

That theory is contrary to what God says.

Nathan@work said:
However, since they were removed, he no longer had access to it. Just like he no longer had access to the tree of life - and because of that, died

Yes, in part, for the denial of the tree of life did prevent the ongoing of his life.

Nathan@work said:
The damage was done though, and now the lie continues to remain - mankind thinking they can be like God knowing good from evil, wise in their own eyes.

Man does indeed know good from evil--wisdom in his own eyes is just a result of evil, not the knowledge thereof, but it's effect.

What God says about this matter:

"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." --Genesis 3:22-24

Nathan@work said:
Satan is a liar and there is no truth in him.

Yes, Satan is indeed a liar, but more specifically, the father of it, yet you failed to see his lie in the garden, for in all that he said, he lied but in one thing alone, when he said, "Ye shall not surely die."

This is the lie that pervades all religion, to this day, the immortality of man, presupposed, with or without God: the first lie remains, unchanged, throughout the ages. --the Dragon succeeds in deceiving the whole world, but the very elect of God, for they have been preserved from his power to twist God's word, thus it is impossible for them to be carried away. Amen.

BobRyan · Feb 28, 2021

Clare73 said:
Mk 2:27; Gal 4:8-11; Col 2:16--where the Sabbath was a shadow of the things to come, but the reality is found in Christ, not in a day of the week.

The NT command is not to forsake meeting together (Heb 11:25).

No text says "The Sabbath was a shadow" of anything.

Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"
Col 2:16-17 says the feasts, festivals... and sabbaths (the annual sabbaths/feasts of Lev 23) were shadows.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.(NKJV)

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.(NASB 1995)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

All of the annual Sabbath days of Lev 23 were given with animal sacrifice liturgy pointing to the sacrifice of Christ -- a shadows, at their inception. Not so with the Ex 20:11, Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath day (the Sabbath day) - given before sin entered in the world and it was included in the TEN.

Toro · Feb 28, 2021

Anyone saying that the law no longer natters would concern me, for Christ IS the fulfillment of the law.

While true it means we are no longer bound by the black and white of the law as the Pharisees so loved for it allowed for the inside of their cup to remain filthy. We ARE still bound to the spirit of the law, that we can only follow if He abides in us and we in Him. It means that the inside must be clean, allowing no loopholes for me to WANT to continue living in filth. That though falling to sin will happen, I do not joyfully return to commit them.

fhansen · Feb 28, 2021

So we have the ancient churches firmly and consistently upholding the ten commandments even as they understood the commandment regarding sabbath in a new way and observed it differently from the Jews. All of the law was regarded in a new way for that matter. And this understanding involving the sabbath was also supported by writings of early church fathers and other sources. And then, as the doctrine of Sola Scriptura took hold some fifteen centuries later, we have a variety of opinions on the matter, with some, as this thread demonstrates, thinking the law doesn't even need to have a place at all in the Christian faith based on their interpretation while others may pipe up and proclaim, "I read the bible, and I know that we're supposed to observe the sabbath as was originally done, regardless of how the church may or may not have done things back in the day. Meanwhile those older churches just keep chugging along with the same beliefs and practices that were handed down, addressing and clarifying some beliefs at council at times as the need arises.

SabbathBlessings · Feb 28, 2021

Clare73 said:
Mk 2:27; Gal 4:8-11; Col 2:16--where the Sabbath was a shadow of the things to come, but the reality (rest from our own works to save ourselves) is found in Christ, not in a day of the week (Heb 4:1-11, v.9)

The NT command is not to forsake meeting together (Heb 11:25).

There is more than one Sabbath in the Bible. There is the moral Sabbath that God established at creation before sin Genesis 2:3 and than wrote in stone Exodus 20:8-11. God said His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant, meaning it can not be broken ever. The Sabbath you are referring to in Colossians is the ceremonial Sabbath(s) the Sabbath festivals, if you read Colossians 2:16 its all about food and drink and there is nothing in God’s commandments about food or drink Exodus 20. God asked us to REMEMBER His Sabbath which is why on the New Earth all will worship Him each and every Saturday. Isaiah 66:23.

Clare73 · Feb 28, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
It is in the Torah, thus from God through Moses.

But it is not the basis and condition of the Mosaic Covenant, as was the Decalogue.

Clare73 · Feb 28, 2021

pescador said:
The OP concerns removing the laws of god[sic]

First of all, the only way that God's laws can be removed is if God removes them. They are HIS laws. The Mosaic covenant is a suzerainty; the subjects have no say in the terms of the agreement. It's a one-way "protection street".

It's not about having a say in the terms. It's about having conditions required to keep the covenant in force.

And, actually, the Mosaic Covenant it is a two-way street (Ex 19:5-8).

So far, God has not removed His laws. They are still in effect for all those who are not in Christ. In their ignorance they haven't understood that the penalty for violating those laws has already been paid by Christ's shed blood. How tragic is that!!

Clare73 · Feb 28, 2021

Clare73 said:
You think all Christians are disqualified from being in the faith?

Clare73 said:
Paul received his revelation from Jesus personally, in the third heaven (2Co 12:1-5), some of which he was not even allowed to tell!

You have it backwards, he knew much more than the apostles.
Where do you find justification, the one olive tree, God's plan for Jesus Christ in the church, etc. in writings other than Paul?

SkyWriting said:
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

It's in my sig file near the bottom.

Non-responsive. . .wanna' answer the question?

Maria Billingsley · Feb 28, 2021

Clare73 said:
But it is not the basis and condition of the Mosaic Covenant, as was the Decalogue.

And....the Mosaic Covenant was filled through Jesus Christ of Nazareth. We are now in the New Covenant through regeneration by the Holy Spirit given to all who believe in Him. All other covenants are obsolete.

Clare73 · Feb 28, 2021

BobRyan[ said:
No text says "The Sabbath was a shadow" of anything.

1) Mark 2:27 "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND"
2) Col 2:16-17 says the feasts, festivals... and sabbaths (the annual sabbaths/feasts of Lev 23) were shadows.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.(NKJV)
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.(NASB 1995)
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
All of the annual Sabbath days of Lev 23

So you're saying instead of calling it Passover (Unleavened Bread), or Feast of Weeks, or Feast of Trumpets, or Feast of Tabernacles,
they just called them Sabbaths and, therefore, Col 2:16 does not refer to the weekly Sabbath?

But NT testimony of the practice of assembling on Sunday (Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; Rev 1:10) does not support that.

were given with animal sacrifice liturgy pointing to the sacrifice of Christ -- a shadows, at their inception.Not so with the Ex 20:11,
Gen 2:1-3 Sabbath day (the Sabbath day) - given before sin entered in the world and it was included in the TEN.

The Sabbath was not given to man for rest in Ge 2:1-3. And you left out. . .

3) Heb 4:1-11, v.9, where the Sabbath was a shadow of the things to come (Sabbath-rest in Christ for the people of God, v.9), while
the reality (rest from our own works to save ourselves, v.10) is found in Christ, not in a day of the week.

The Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ (Heb 4:9-11).

Christian records from the first century (Didache) show Sunday as the day of assembly.
And that record would have been from the first transmission from the apostles (those taught by the apostles).

imge said:
There is more than one Sabbath in the Bible. There is the moral Sabbath that God established at creation before sin Genesis 2:3

The Sabbath was not given to man for rest in Ge 2:1-3.

See the above.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 28, 2021

Religiot said:
On the contrary, to focus on the truth of what actually happened is the only way to get to the meaning of the facts.

If the truth has a negative effect on the congregation, then what does that tell you about where the congregation was going?

Sometimes, an impact against the wrong direction is all it takes to turn things right-way-round; wherefore, what seems negative now, could very well be what is actually positive now.

According to the bible, Truth sets free, The words of God are Truth, and Jesus is the incarnation of Truth.

When the rebellion of consuming the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is called Truth, this illustrates why the church is in decline.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 28, 2021

Religiot said:
--By living-faith, otherwise, they will die, by dead-faith: the works of the dead are none to God, but dust and ashes, but the works of the righteous are the faith through which He saves.

Living faith is the only way, folks, otherwise, your belief is indeed vain.

The letter of James illustrates that these works consist of not showing favoritism, judging with mercy, and living by the law of liberty i.e. treating others as Jesus treated you.

Following the dead letter of the law, results in dead faith.

Religiot · Feb 28, 2021

Michael Collum said:
When the rebellion of consuming the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is called Truth, this illustrates why the church is in decline.

I've quoted your comment mostly to preserve it for others to see; cause what you've just said in response to me, is so absurd as to put me in complete disbelief.

How you are able, to say what you've just said, and then to post it publicly as a response to what I said, is beyond me.

No one has ever twisted a post of mine to such a bewildering degree.

Truly, I'm astonished at your attempt to twist what I said into something I, nor anyone here, could ever mean.

If you hate my posts to this extent, why not just ignore me?

Gregory Thompson · Feb 28, 2021

Religiot said:
I've quoted your comment mostly to preserve it for others to see; cause what you've just said in response to me, is so absurd as to put me in complete disbelief.

How you are able, to say what you've just said, and then to post it publicly as a response to what I said, is beyond me.

No one has ever twisted a post of mine to such a bewildering degree.

Truly, I'm astonished at your attempt to twist what I said into something I, nor anyone here, could ever mean.

If you hate my posts to this extent, why not just ignore me?

So I am being accused of what the above post is doing. Bizarre.

Religiot · Feb 28, 2021

Michael Collum said:
The letter of James illustrates that these works consist of not showing favoritism, judging with mercy, and living by the law of liberty i.e. treating others as Jesus treated you.

Following the dead letter of the law, results in dead faith.

I strongly recommend you bother to read my other posts on this thread before you continue commenting, because you have yet to touch on anything that contradicts what I've already said.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 28, 2021

Religiot said:
I strongly recommend you bother to read my other posts on this thread before you continue commenting, because you have yet to touch on anything that contradicts what I've already said.

I am replying to your reply to my post, I see no need to read the other posts of someone who is hostile towards me.

Religiot · Feb 28, 2021

Michael Collum said:
So I am being accused of what the above post is doing. Bizarre.

The only things bizarre are your responses.

Why not address the doctrine I've proved by the scriptures instead?

Gregory Thompson · Feb 28, 2021

Religiot said:
The only things bizarre are your responses.

Why not address the doctrine I've proved by the scriptures instead?

I'm not reading previous posts.

furthermore, your interpretation =/= the scriptures.

Religiot · Feb 28, 2021

Michael Collum said:
I am replying to your reply to my post, I see no need to read the other posts of someone who is hostile towards me.

I'm not interested in playing along with your pretense of hostility, I'm here to prove what is true by the scriptures to the glory of God, period.

Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

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