Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,207
6,163
North Carolina
✟278,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think a better measure is how one loves themselves. "You shall love your neighbor as you love your self."
To love yourself is to be committed to your well-being, and is the same for love of neighbor.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: disciple1
Upvote 0

pescador

Wise old man
Site Supporter
Nov 29, 2011
8,530
4,776
✟498,844.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
All are disqualified.
Romans 3:10
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


All are disqualified.

How can you quote Romans 3:23 and not include it in context?

Romans 3:19-24, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the law the righteousness of God (although it is attested by the law and the prophets) has been disclosed— namely, the righteousness of God through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. But they are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

disciple1

Newbie
Aug 1, 2012
2,168
546
✟62,178.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
You are conflating the laws of the old covenant contained in ordinances (which has now passed away), with God's eternal laws, which cannot pass away, but were indeed transferred to Christ, and written in the hearts of those born of Him: that is the promise that is now fulfilled.

THE NEW COVENANT IS THE SPIRIT WRITING GOD'S LAWS IN OUR HEARTS

"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." --Jeremiah 31:31-34

"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." --Hebrews 8:7-13

"For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another." --Romans 2:13-15
Can you please point to where the OP said anything about trying to become justified by works of the law?

This is a discussion about the law, some people think their justified by obeying the law.

Look at these verses.

Isaiah chapter 28
9 “Who is it he is trying to teach?
To whom is he explaining his message?
To children weaned from their milk,
to those just taken from the breast?
10 For it is:
Do this, do that,
a rule for this, a rule for that;
a little here, a little there.”

All I'm saying is why not obey the easy way.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
How can you quote Romans 3:23 and not include it in context?

The context goes without saying. I'm pretty familiar with the source.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 3:12
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

Romans 3:9
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned—every one—to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

2 Peter 1:4
By which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

2 Peter 1:3
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

Religiot

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2020
1,046
384
Private
✟29,006.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
If I had read your excellent post I would not have written mine, which approaches the issue at perhaps excessive length from what I consider an amusing paradox of ecclesiastical history, before attempting to summarize all of what you said here in the closing sentence!
Thanks!
Are you yourself a minister or member of the clergy? Your post has a homiletic quality.
Not in the traditional sense, but in the biblical sense: I believe that, under the new covenant, all believers are priests to God.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pescador
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,207
6,163
North Carolina
✟278,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Galatians 3 quote is particularly compelling.

Now, let us consider a strange paradox of ecclesiastical history:

In the 5th century, a difference in Christological terminology caused a schism at Chalcedon. In the 11th century, the Chalcedonian churches separated over the issue of papal infallibility vs. the rights of individual bishops within autocephalous synods.

In the 16th century, one of those churches, that being the Roman Catholic Church, was challenged by Martin Luther, and lost control of its dioceses in most of Northern Europe due to the perception of being excessively legalistic.

While three primary denominations emerged (Lutheran, Calvinist, Anglican), and two others were spared (Moravian, Waldensian) there was also a “Radical Reformation” which produced denominations like the Anabaptists. Also there was later a schism between Methodists and Episcopalians and the Church of England, which is very complex and not germane, as far as I can tell, but should greater relevance attach to issues like the Jacobite Rebellion, the Non-Juring Bishops, and so on, we have numerous bona fide Anglicans including one who I did with all sincerity endorse for the episcopate, not that I, a non-conformist, have a say, can explain.

Non-conformists included Puritans, the distant descendants of my denominational heritage, the Quakers, and Baptists, as well as English Presbyterians, and I suppose by law, “north of the Border,” as they say in the UK, Scottish Episcopalians after the triumph of full Calvinist Presbyterianism in the Established Church of Scotland, which had the interesting effect of making the British sovereign the Defender of the Faithful, the Head of the Church of England, and a member in full communion with the very different Church of Scotland. But of most interest were the Baptists and Puritans, because they had been influenced by the Radical Reformation in Germany. So in the New World, as it was then commonly known, it was inevitable that the Non Conformists of Britain and those of the Radical Reformation would in course of time converge, in some cases completely, such as the merger of the Evangelical Reformed and Congregational churches to form the United Church of Christ, which if the OP were written to complain about in its present anomic approach to Christianity, or any of the shrinking mainline Protestant denominations that has capitulated to secular values and media pressure on human sexuality, I would support it. However I sense a wider net has been cast.

In the late 19th and early 20th century, a remnant of a revivalist apocalyptic group known as the Millerites was reorganized, under an individual as charismatic as Martin Luther and certainly more prolific an author. This denomination makes strict Sabbatarian and dietary observance of great importance, and of this I have no objection, but apparently, a very small minority of its members, none of whom are known to me personally (I have known hundreds of Adventists and been greatly aided by some) also seem determined to attack the Roman Catholic Church and all non-Sabbatarian churches, including Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches which had nothing to do with the legalism that Martin Luther complained of, not to mention traditional Lutherans, Calvinists, Anglicans and other Protestants who are not Sabbatarian.

The paradox is the legalism that Luther accused the Romans of having, which prompted him to advocate several of the Solas, most notably sola scriptura and sola fide, is exhibited when verses in Galatians which appear to contradict certain aspects of Adventist doctrine are ignored yet the importance of sola scriptura is strongly emphasized, by this vocal anti-non-SDA minority.

And I wouldn’t even care, except so many threads are being posted on certain Theology forums on this site when we have other more relevant matters to discuss, like religious freedom and worship practices in the context of the global pandemic, or the impending schism in the United Methodist Church, or the recent and in my opinion glorious victory of the Anglican Diocese of Fort Worth against its former denomination regarding real estate, which could end mainline denominational denial of real estate to departing conservative parishes where there is no longer a shared bond of faith but in some cases a difference vaster than that between traditional Protestantism and traditional Roman Catholicism,

Also, a central claim made very often, that the traditional Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox ignore the ten commandments has been shown false by @BobRyan , an Adventist who I have great respect for who did compile the catechisms of these churches.
For the Epistle of Paul to the Galatians is not a license to sin but, among many other things, an explanation of the
difference between the exoteric
restrictive interpretation of the law of the Mosaic Covenant
and the esoteric interpretation, and an exegesis of that and the lightened yoke of the New Covenant.
Very informative, thanks.

What does the "esoteric" interpretation mean?
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,207
6,163
North Carolina
✟278,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Considering one of the commandments that seems to be altered is God's 4th commandment. Found here Exodus 20:8-11. You can clearly see its been altered by peoples actions.
Worshipping God on the first day of the week is not Biblical.
There is NT evidence that the Christians assembled on the first day of every week for the Lord's Supper (Ac 20:7; 1Co 16:2; Rev 1:10).
There is no scripture in the entire Bible telling us to keep Holy the first day. The Roman Catholic church takes credit for making this change and people should realize when they go to church on Sunday they are obeying a commandment of the Catholic church, not a commandment of God. Just a few quotes.

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the Seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.
—Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995


This is sort of like when your partner who you claim to love asks you to do A, but you choose to do B C and D. While you think its a nice gesture and you're doing more than what was asked, its still not what your partner asked of you. Don't you think God our Creator and Savior has the right to choose the day we worship Him? He did. Exodus 20 8-11, Isaiah 66:23

God's commdmants are not to be altered. When you start tinkering with God's Word is easy to start following someone other than Him maybe without even realizing it. Jesus warned us about this too.

Mathew 15:8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

God bless
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟982,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
To love yourself is to be committed to your well-being, and is the same for love of neighbor.

In the absence of a neighbor you have only yourself to love. ;)
 
Upvote 0

1watchman

Overseer
Site Supporter
Oct 9, 2010
6,039
1,226
Washington State
✟358,358.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Certainly God's laws, standards, principles, instructions are still valid. The laws for Israel were fulfilled in Jesus -the Christ of God. God says: "them that honor Me, I will honor". If real "born again" Christians seek to honor God they will regard His standards. Israel of old (and much today) failed to listen to the Prophets and rebelled as enjoying their status as Israelites, and in time killed their Messiah --Jesus Christ. That religion was closed and set aside now and until the time after the Church is 'raptured' up to Heaven ---"in a moment in the twinkling of an eye", and Jesus comes again and reigns on earth with His bride --the Church for a thousand years (Millennium), as was intended when He came before.

We see in Revelation that Jesus will return with His 'bride' (the Church now), and begin His thousand year reign ---the Millennium. Israel as God's earthly people will then be restored by the Covenant He made with them ---a NEW people; and they will be His earthly people. Jesus will then take His "bride" --the Church, with Him again as He returns to Heaven. There will be an earthly people --the new Israel, and a heavenly people --Christ and His Bride forever.

Today if ANYONE is not part of the Bride of Christ ---"born again" (John 3; John 14) by faith in the Lord Jesus, they will NOT be saved for Heaven (including professing Israelites). That is the plain picture in a brief statement here. --1watchman
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,459
3,771
Eretz
✟317,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Father, in the name of Jesus, please remove the veil that covers the eyes of those who are under the law. Please show them the difference between a life of flesh management is not what you have called us to. Reveal to them the New Covenant and what it means to have the hope of Christ in them and not the hopelessness of life under the law. Lead them to the end of themselves so they will learn to trust in you and not their disobedience of trying to a life they cannot live. Show them that the sin issue is over between you and us. Allow them to experience your forgiveness so they can have a relationship with you and not your commandments. Take away the religious pride that deceives us into believing we have found a way to be obedient to your laws and makes us lord over other Christians. Let them see that the law is for unbelievers and not Christians. Lead them into your rest. Show them the light yoke you promised. Thank you for your faithfulness and fellowship to us despite our sins and failures. May you be glorified in all of this. Amen!

Of course you would think that....that is the problem... Did you even read what I wrote?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Religiot
Upvote 0

Religiot

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2020
1,046
384
Private
✟29,006.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
All I'm saying is why not obey the easy way.

Galatians chapter 5 verse 14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
There is great danger in forming doctrine by plucking verses from their context:

In Galatians chapter 5, Paul condemns circumcision pursuant to the old covenant, and teaches that whomsoever will keep any part of the old covenant, must keep the whole thing, etc.; moreover, he speaks to interpersonal relationships between believers, that we need to only love each other, and that alone will cause us to fulfill all of the law that pertains to people--however, loving each other alone does not fulfill all the law, but loving each other as God commands does; otherwise, this citation would be a direct contradiction to what the Lord says, namely:

"But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." --Matthew 22:34-40

To love each other as God commands, presupposes loving God, for the command follows from God, thus to love God first is required; thereby is the order preserved; otherwise, the affection towards others would be inordinate.

Once the above is understood, then what follows may be received, viz:

THE NEW COMMANDMENT

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." --John 13:34-35
 
Upvote 0

Yeshua HaDerekh

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it
May 9, 2013
11,459
3,771
Eretz
✟317,562.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
The archaic Talmudic interpretation of the Torah differs from the modern reformed Jewish practice. The first century AD Gospel of John stated the Jews wanted to kill Jesus for Sabbath violations.

John 5: 8 Jesus said to him, “Arise, take up your mat, and walk.”
9 Immediately, the man was made well, and took up his mat and walked.
Now it was the Sabbath on that day. 10 So the Jews said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath. It is not lawful for you to carry the mat.”
11 He answered them, “He who made me well said to me, ‘Take up your mat and walk.’”
12 Then they asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your mat and walk’?”
13 But he who was healed didn’t know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a crowd being in the place.
14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “Behold, you are made well. Sin no more, so that nothing worse happens to you.”
15 The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well. 16 For this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill him, because he did these things on the Sabbath.

Nothing in this post disproves what I have written.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Religiot
Upvote 0

GOD Shines Forth!

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 6, 2019
2,615
2,061
United States
✟355,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
God's law is for unbelievers, not Christians
"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine .." 1 Timothy 1:8-10

Christians are not under God's law
"So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:24-25

Jesus Christ is the end of the law
"For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

The law is a curse for those under it
"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” - Galatians 3:13

The Law cannot justify us
"...knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Galatians 2:16

The Law cannot make us righteous
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Galatians 2:21

The Law cannot give us life
"... and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ..." Romans 7:10

The Law stirs up sin
"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56

The Law is based on Man's self-effort
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone ..." Romans 9:30-32

The Law is a ministry of condemnation and death
"But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory." 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

The Law has been fulfilled in us
"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3-4

Under the Law sin is your master
"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

You cannot mix Law and Grace
"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

Once we come to Jesus Christ by faith, the law has done its work. We can now live in a trusting and dependent relationship on the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of trusting and depending on laws designed to manage our flesh.

Grace and Peace

Truth.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: GraceBro
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,207
6,163
North Carolina
✟278,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Bible uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's laws,
which is because they are God's instructions for how to testify about His nature, and God's nature is eternal,
therefore all of His laws are also eternal
Major Premise: The Bible uses the same terms to describe the nature of God as it does to describe the nature of God's laws,

Minor Premise: which is because they are God's instructions for how to testify about His nature, and God's nature is eternal,

Conclusion
: THEREFORE: all of His laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), not just ten of them.

The minor premise is an assumption, therefore the conclusion rests on an assumption.
There are more ways to do what is righteous or sinful that God's law specifically prescribes or prohibits, but God's laws is spiritual in that it has always been intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples, and which are aspects of God's nature. For example, God's righteous laws teach us about His righteousness, which can lead us to live in a way that testifies about God's righteousness both in situations that are specifically prescribed by God's law and in those that are not.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Religiot

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2020
1,046
384
Private
✟29,006.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Father, in the name of Jesus, please remove the veil that covers the eyes of those who are under the law. Please show them the difference between a life of flesh management is not what you have called us to. Reveal to them the New Covenant and what it means to have the hope of Christ in them and not the hopelessness of life under the law. Lead them to the end of themselves so they will learn to trust in you and not their disobedience of trying to a life they cannot live. Show them that the sin issue is over between you and us. Allow them to experience your forgiveness so they can have a relationship with you and not your commandments. Take away the religious pride that deceives us into believing we have found a way to be obedient to your laws and makes us lord over other Christians. Let them see that the law is for unbelievers and not Christians. Lead them into your rest. Show them the light yoke you promised. Thank you for your faithfulness and fellowship to us despite our sins and failures. May you be glorified in all of this. Amen!
God will be glorified, but not by your prayer:

"If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me." --Psalms 66:18

"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination." --Proverbs 28:9

"And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: but if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." --Isaiah 1:15-20

You are advocating lawlessness, we are advocating obedience.

You equivocate the old covenant with the laws of God, they are not the same, just look for yourself and see.

Christ empowers believers to keep the laws of God rightly, from the heart, not from the fear of men, but of God: this righteousness comes only from God, by His Spirit.

Your doctrine is man-made.

--The laws of God are transferred to Christ, not abolished by Him, but in care of Him, and placed in us, by His Spirit; that is the new covenant: we are priests now, to God, through Christ: that is the new administration, the old is past, solely because the new is here--we are the preservation of God's word, not the tables of stone, but our living hearts.

As Isaiah says:

"Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples." --Isaiah 8:16
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,207
6,163
North Carolina
✟278,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What laws? This is the second covenant. The first covenant is Gods ten commandments. What this means is God's laws are magnified. Sin begins in our hearts, but we are still required to keep the letter.
Reminder: The first covenant was the Abrahamic Covenant of Genesis, of innumerable seed, and an everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,126
4,255
USA
✟480,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Reminder: The first covenant was the Abrahamic Covenant of Genesis.
Which laws is God referring to in the second covenant? Maybe you can show me specifically via scripture the laws we are supposed to obey in both our hearts and minds where God wrote in His new covenant.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
25,207
6,163
North Carolina
✟278,107.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It is a new covenant, God said He would write His laws in our hearts and in our minds. WHAT LAWS? Does it say “I’ll give them a new covenant, and I'm making a new law”?

It says He will write His laws, Gods laws are only found in Exodus 20 and is the first covenant. So laws from the first covenant (God's 10) are transferred over to the New Covenant with better promises. It's still not okay lie, cheat steal, vain His name or break any of God's commandments. Which is made clear by numerous scripture in the New Testament. Read my OP for just a few.

The new covenant is not a different law. It is the same law written in a different place. The old covenant was salvation by faith because even in Old Testament times they all sinned. So God’s saying, “I'm going to make a covenant with you that you might be saved.” We are going to be saved based on forgiveness and faith. The terms of the covenant are the same. God wants us to be saved from sin. What is sin? Breaking God's law. God is not changing the covenant by saying, “I'm throwing out the law.”

Jesus kept all of His Fathers laws and asked us to do the same. John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Small, but significant, clarification. . .the first covenant with Abraham was a covenant of faith/grace.
The Mosaic Covenant, the second covenant, was added (Gal 4:19) to the Abrahamic Covenant of grace, to show the nature of sin and its remedy, sacrificial atonement.
The Mosaic Covenant was made obsolete (Hen 8:13) when the once-for-all atoning sacrifice of the Son of God was offered by the High Priest, Jesus Christ.
We are now in the New Covenant of grace, the third covenant, which covenant is based in the shed blood of Jesus Christ (Mt 26:28).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
10,126
4,255
USA
✟480,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Maybe you stopped reading after the 7th verse but if you keep reading you will see these words from Jesus:


Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0