Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?

SabbathBlessings

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With the growing number of churches that are teaching God’s laws are a thing of the past citing arguments like “we are not under the law we are under grace” or “Gods laws are only for the Jews ” I thought I would create a post to examine what does the Bible teach us about the laws of God. If we remove God's laws what are we really teaching and what are we removing from our lives?

Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 13: 5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
According to scripture we should test ourselves to ensure we are in the faith.

My pastor preached a beautiful sermon on this topic so I wanted to share here.

What happens if we remove Gods laws? Is God’s character in Gods laws? If we remove His laws are we removing God?

God is Good:
Luke 18:19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God

God’s law is Good:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Holy:
Isaiah 5:16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment,
And God who is holy shall be hallowed in righteousness.

God’s law is Holy:
Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Just:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He.

God’s laws are Just: Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

God is Perfect:
Mathew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

God’s law is Perfect:
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

God is Love
1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

God's law is Love:
Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

God is Righteous
Exodus 9:27 2 And Pharaoh sent and called for Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “I have sinned this time. The Lord is righteous, and my people and I are wicked.

God’s laws are Righteous
Psalms 19:9 The fear of the LORD is pure, enduring forever. The decrees of the LORD are firm, and all of them are righteous.
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of Your word, For all Your commandments are righteousness.

God is Truth:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, His work is perfect; For all His ways are justice, A God of truth and without injustice; Righteous and upright is He.

God’s law is Truth:
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalms 119:151 You are near, O LORD, And all Your commandments are truth.

God is Pure:
1 John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

God’s laws are Pure:
Psalms 19:8 the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;

God is Spiritual:
John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

God’s law is Spiritual:
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

God is Unchangeable:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God’s laws are Unchangeable:
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

God is Eternal
Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

God’s laws are Eternal
Psalms 111:7,8 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, And are done in truth and uprightness

Considering God’s character is reflected in Gods laws, when we remove God’s law what else are we removing?

Yes, we are saved by grace (God’s gift) but what else does the Word of God tell us?

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

1 John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Mathew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

God's commandments are found in Exodus 20 written in our hearts and mind in the new covenant Hebrews 10:16.

God bless
 
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OldWiseGuy

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We understand that God's Laws (the ten commandments) have not gone away. It's how those laws are understood in the new testament church that is important. The Law is spiritual, but what does that mean exactly.
 
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Freth

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We've already seen what happens to a western society when God's law is removed as a cornerstone of liberty and freedom. As in the days of Noah.

Matthew 24:37-39 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.​

2 Timothy 3:1-7 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

All in the same generation!

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.​

What happens when you remove God's law from the church? Laodicea. Lukewarm Christianity.

Revelation 3:14-20 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​

The prophecies of how society would be and how the church would be in the end time have been coming to pass.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
 
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Clare73

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We understand that God's Laws (the ten commandments) have not gone away. It's how those laws are understood in the new testament church that is important. The Law is spiritual, but what does that mean exactly.
Paul's use of "spiritual" means of the domain of the Holy Spirit, the law is of the Holy Spirit, he is unspiritual, of the flesh, a slave to sin.

I don't find the Decalogue too vague or complicated to understand, and
which is fulfilled in obedience to Jesus' NT law (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10).
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I don't find the Decalogue too vague or complicated to understand, and
which is fulfilled in obedience to Jesus' NT law (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10).

It can be complicated to apply depending on the situation. If it were simple the Holy Spirit wouldn't be needed to guide us.

The literal structure of the commandments requires more than a cursory study.

The good news is that most Christians, and non Christians as well, apply the spirit of the law in their daily lives without giving it much thought. We're running on spiritual 'autopilot'.
 
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pescador

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Fundamentally, there are two ways that you can be guided through life to do God's will: the law and the Holy Spirit. If you haven't been born again and received the Holy Spirit then you must be guided externally by the law. If you have been born again and received the Holy Spirit then you are guided internally by Him.

They cannot co-exist! If you received the Holy Spirit you are "dead to the law"!

If you haven't been born again then there must be external rules in place to guide your behavior (and the behavior of others). So there is a definite need for law, both God's law and human law (in that order).
 
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Clare73

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It can be complicated to apply depending on the situation. If it were simple the Holy Spirit wouldn't be needed to guide us.

The literal structure of the commandments requires more than a cursory study.
The Holy Spirit makes easy the study of Mt 22:37-40 and Ro 13:8-10.

If we love our neighbors as ourselves, our study is complete.
 
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Clare73

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The spirit of a person is known by analyzing them by the commandments.
If you're in a position to do that, then you are in a position to note their love for their neighbor, which is the real measure.
 
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GraceBro

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God's law is for unbelievers, not Christians
"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine .." 1 Timothy 1:8-10

Christians are not under God's law
"So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:24-25

Jesus Christ is the end of the law
"For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

The law is a curse for those under it
"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” - Galatians 3:13

The Law cannot justify us
"...knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Galatians 2:16

The Law cannot make us righteous
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Galatians 2:21

The Law cannot give us life
"... and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ..." Romans 7:10

The Law stirs up sin
"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56

The Law is based on Man's self-effort
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone ..." Romans 9:30-32

The Law is a ministry of condemnation and death
"But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory." 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

The Law has been fulfilled in us
"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3-4

Under the Law sin is your master
"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

You cannot mix Law and Grace
"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

Once we come to Jesus Christ by faith, the law has done its work. We can now live in a trusting and dependent relationship on the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of trusting and depending on laws designed to manage our flesh.

Grace and Peace
 
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Clare73

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God's law is for unbelievers, not Christians
"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine .." 1 Timothy 1:8-10

Christians are not under God's law
"So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:24-25

Jesus Christ is the end of the law
"For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

The law is a curse for those under it
"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” - Galatians 3:13

The Law cannot justify us
"...knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Galatians 2:16

The Law cannot make us righteous
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Galatians 2:21

The Law cannot give us life
"... and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ..." Romans 7:10

The Law stirs up sin
"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56

The Law is based on Man's self-effort
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone ..." Romans 9:30-32

The Law is a ministry of condemnation and death
"But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory." 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

The Law has been fulfilled in us
"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3-4

Under the Law sin is your master
"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

You cannot mix Law and Grace
"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

Once we come to Jesus Christ by faith, the law has done its work. We can now live in a trusting and dependent relationship on the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of trusting and depending on laws designed to manage our flesh.

Grace and Peace
Don't forget the Decalogue is contained in Jesus' law (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10).
 
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GraceBro

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Don't forget the Decalogue is contained in Jesus' law (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10).
Jesus amplified the law to bury us under it. This was so we would recognize our need for the grace and mercy of God. Besides, nobody is obeying the law, not even the Ten Commandments. Plus, even if one obeyed all 613 commandments of the law, they still would not qualify to enter Heaven or receive the love of God. That wasn't the purpose of the law. And, as Paul stated, "love is the fulfillment of the law," not our failed attempts at obeying it. This is the love that comes from bearing the fruit of the Spirit God is producing in us. When we are loving others, we are not sinning with or against them.
 
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pescador

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God's law is for unbelievers, not Christians
"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine .." 1 Timothy 1:8-10

Christians are not under God's law
"So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." Galatians 3:24-25

Jesus Christ is the end of the law
"For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

The law is a curse for those under it
"For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things written in the book of the Law, to do them.” - Galatians 3:13

The Law cannot justify us
"...knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified." Galatians 2:16

The Law cannot make us righteous
"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.” Galatians 2:21

The Law cannot give us life
"... and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me ..." Romans 7:10

The Law stirs up sin
"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56

The Law is based on Man's self-effort
"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though they could by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone ..." Romans 9:30-32

The Law is a ministry of condemnation and death
"But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory." 2 Corinthians 3:7-9

The Law has been fulfilled in us
"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:3-4

Under the Law sin is your master
"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

You cannot mix Law and Grace
"You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" Galatians 3:1-3

Once we come to Jesus Christ by faith, the law has done its work. We can now live in a trusting and dependent relationship on the indwelling Holy Spirit instead of trusting and depending on laws designed to manage our flesh.

Grace and Peace

GREAT POST!!
 
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HIM

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We understand that God's Laws (the ten commandments) have not gone away. It's how those laws are understood in the new testament church that is important. The Law is spiritual, but what does that mean exactly.
That it is no more a matter of an obedience because we have to but because we want to through the new heart and mind we have been given. A heart and mind filled with His laws, founded in His Love that our mouths speak His words. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
 
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Fundamentally, there are two ways that you can be guided through life to do God's will: the law and the Holy Spirit. If you haven't been born again and received the Holy Spirit then you must be guided externally by the law. If you have been born again and received the Holy Spirit then you are guided internally by Him.

They cannot co-exist! If you received the Holy Spirit you are "dead to the law"!

If you haven't been born again then there must be external rules in place to guide your behavior (and the behavior of others). So there is a definite need for law, both God's law and human law (in that order).
^^This^^is probably the most concise answer.
 
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Clare73

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Jesus amplified the law to bury us under it.
Did he amplify it any more than God did on Siani?
This was so we would recognize our need for the grace and mercy of God. Besides,
nobody is obeying the law, not even the Ten Commandments.
The Christian is not free to violate the Ten Commandments.
Plus, even if one obeyed all 613 commandments of the law, they still would not qualify to enter Heaven or receive the love of God. That wasn't the purpose of the law. And, as Paul stated, "love is the fulfillment of the law," not our failed attempts at obeying it. This is the love that comes from bearing the fruit of the Spirit God is producing in us. When we are loving others, we are not sinning with or against them.
It's not about entering heaven, it's about the nature of the family, being sons of the Holy God (1Jn 3:9).
 
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GraceBro

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Did he amplify it any more than God did on Siani?
The Christian is not free to violate the Ten Commandments.

It's not about entering heaven, it's about the nature of the family, being sons of the Holy God (1Jn 3:9).

Jesus amplified the law
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Now if your right eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." Matthew 5:27-29

The Christian is not under any of the Law, Ten Commandments, or otherwise. If you believe that we are, the question you must answer is, "Are you completely obedient to all God commands?" That is a yes or no question. There is no, "I try my best" or "God gives me grace when I fall short."

The Law's standard is perfection
"For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all." James 2:10

"Therefore you shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48

Where there is no law, sin is not taken into account
"... for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law."

There no law for Christians because God is no longer counting our sins against us. So, God is not holding any violation of the law against me because He has taken it away at the Cross and given us a New Covenant.

Practicing Sin
"No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

If you are subjecting yourself to the Ten Commandments then you will be "practicing" sin because the law stirs up sin by giving you more things to think about not doing. You will experience what Paul did in Romans 7 regarding coveting, which is one of the Ten Commandments.

"But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead." Romans 7:8

We keep sin alive by trying to live by the Law.

Grace and Peace
 
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Clare73

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Jesus amplified the law
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Now if your right eye is causing you to sin, tear it out and throw it away from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." Matthew 5:27-29

The Christian is not under any of the Law, Ten Commandments, or otherwise.
I am not "under" them for righteousness/salvation, they are the conduct of the family into which I have been adopted.
]If you believe that we are, the question you must answer is, "Are you completely obedient to all God commands?" That is a yes or no question. There is no, "I try my best" or "God gives me grace when I fall short."

The Law's standard is perfection
"For whoever keeps the whole Law, yet stumbles in one point, has become guilty of all." James 2:10

"Therefore you shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48

Where there is no law, sin is not taken into account
"... for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law."

There no law for Christians because God is no longer counting our sins against us. So, God is not holding any violation of the law against me because He has taken it away at the Cross and given us a New Covenant.

Grace and Peace
 
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GraceBro

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I am not "under" them for righteousness/salvation, they are the conduct of the family into which I have been adopted.
Regardless of what you are using them for, that doesn't mean God has given them to you. God did not give us the law for "the conduct of the family into which [you] have been adopted." And again, you aren't obeying it. You may use it to try and keep order in your individual household, but that is separate from your life as a Christian. But, as far as Christians, who have been adopted into God's family through faith in Jesus Christ, we live by faith.

"Now, that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “the righteous one will live by faith.” Galatians 3:11

Grace and Peace
 
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