What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

GraceInChrist

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Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?
Then im glad he came. Because in Jhon 6 it literally says everyone who sees and believes in him will have everlasting life. I have not see him yet, so that would be needed for my salvation.
 
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Jamdoc

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Please respect those who have different beliefs than yourself. Take this time of Lent God has given you to remember what Jesus did for us all and how he treated others.

That respect has to go both ways and the OP's thread is not showing the kind of respect you demand for non catholic denominations.
If he can be honest how he feels about the other denominations, I can be honest about how I feel about Catholicism.

and like I said, many Catholics also find that the church has been warped since at least Vatican II.

and let's be clear.
the official stance of the Roman Catholic Church is that nobody outside of the Catholic Church can be saved. Francis is kind of going against the grain personally but as far as I know, that's a core belief.

Baptists don't do that. if you go back, I say there are saved Catholics.
Respect needs to go both ways. I'll meet you halfway there, but do not not expect one sided respect towards you while OP denigrates every other denomination.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?
"What if's" are not sound doctrine. The so-called apostolic succession is simply wrong. The pope supports Marxism, an antichrist system that is responsible for 100 million deaths and counting. And if Protestants
are wrong? Jesus still returns for those who are His, who are born again, washed in His blood and saved by His grace.
 
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Aussie Pete

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Then im glad he came. Because in Jhon 6 it literally says everyone who sees and believes in him will have everlasting life. I have not see him yet, so that would be needed for my salvation.
Depends on what you mean by seeing. I see Jesus, not with physical eyes but spiritual.
 
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Jamdoc

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Depends on what you mean by seeing. I see Jesus, not with physical eyes but spiritual.

It seems like every doctrine is hyperliteral about some part of scripture. For Catholics.. part of it is John 6 that they're hyperliteral about.
their doctrine of transubstantiation is based on that hyper literal interpretation..
 
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Dave L

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Just as Jehovah Set up a governmental structure for OT Israel, Jesus is setting up His Governmental Structure for NT Israel, the Church.

The governmental structure of the New Israel is related to the Divine and historic government that existed before it. Bishops/shepherds were common names given to Israel's tribal leadership. So also "elder" was a common office of leadership over Israel. There were the kings of the monarchy, and there were prime ministers in Israel, second in command only to the reigning monarch. In a word, Israel always had a divinely instituted government, and this government was re-constututed under the New Covenant King in the first century. In the granting of the "Keys" to Peter (Matt 16:18-19/Isa 22:15-25), the appointment of the new 12 patriarchs (Matt 19:28; 10:1-4; Rev 21:12-14), and the ordination of bishops/elders and deacons, Jesus re-created Israel under the terms and conditions of the New Covenant order. Christ re-instituted the familiar leadership offices from Israel's history, and established the Twelve who expanded the Bishopric/Episcopate for New Israel. They went about ordaining men to offices in every city by the laying on of hands, and commissioned those appointees to continue this same practice also by the laying on of hands (a cardinal NT doctrine according to Hebrews 6:1-2). The establishment of the authorized bishopric can be traced throughout the New Testament scriptures, and is especially highlighted in Acts and the letters to the Bishops Titus and Timothy. The authorized government of New Israel is evidenced in Holy Scripture, and was maintained from Clement, Ignatius, Irenaeus and those that followed.

With respect, no one doubted the God Given authority of Peter and his successors until after the 1500s. The early Christians believed it and taught it. As they all understood, Jesus gave His own keys of the Kingdom to Peter (Mt 16:18-19), and the power this conferred upon Peter is detailed at Isaiah 22:15-24, when the O.T. kings gave the keys to their prime ministers.
But visible institutional churches are not the church. They are nothing more than business franchises that sell religious services to the church. The church is the body of Christ and exists when two or more meet in Jesus' name. They met in houses in Acts and were complete in themselves, pastor, elder, and bishop being interchangeable terms for the same office.
 
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Dave L

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So, then, you believe Christ instituted a church, said it would last until he returned, and then dropped the ball?
We're still here. The New Testament teaches that the Church is the body of Christ. It is not a visible institution by any means.
 
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Dave L

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Jesus used words paralleling Isaiah 22 when he renamed Simon as Rock (Peter) and gave him the keys to the kingdom. In Isaiah, the king gives the keys to the kingdom to his prime minister as a sign of authority. The prime minister has authority over everyone in the kingdom.
Jesus gave every believer the keys to the kingdom.

“Verily I say unto you, [all believers] Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:18)

READ the context of this verse.
 
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Valletta

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The keys of the kingdom were given to Peter and not to any of the other Apostles. Read Isaiah to find out about the keys given to the prime minister as a sign of authority. When the office of prime minister became vacant a new prime minister was chosen.
As to forgiving sins, that power was given to all of the Apostles. “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’” (John 20:22-23)
Jesus gave every believer the keys to the kingdom.

“Verily I say unto you, [all believers] Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matthew 18:18)

READ the context of this verse.
 
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Dave L

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The keys of the kingdom were given to Peter and not to any of the other Apostles. Read Isaiah to find out about the keys given to the prime minister as a sign of authority. When the office of prime minister became vacant a new prime minister was chosen.
“Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Matthew 18:15–18 (KJV 1900)

It applies to all believers who are also called a royal priesthood.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?
John 6 means exactly what it says when the whole context of the book of John is found in Chapter 20 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
When you get to chapter 6 the idea of believing is the focus of the chapter.

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

7 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me[fn] has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”.


What is the words Jesus spoke are Spirit and this whole discourse is about believing in Jesus for eternal life and has nothing to do with a cannibal ritual? You know when Jesus turned the water to wine the headmaster noted that the best wine was now brought out instead of the inferior. When the priest says the prayer that wafer still tastes like wafer and that wine is still wine. This is not a transubstantiation. This doctrine is bad and it is not found in this chapter.
 
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Valletta

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It seems like every doctrine is hyperliteral about some part of scripture. For Catholics.. part of it is John 6 that they're hyperliteral about.
their doctrine of transubstantiation is based on that hyper literal interpretation..
John 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."
 
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Berean Tim

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John 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."
Jesus said this with a piece of bread and a cup of wine in his hand
 
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BobRyan

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Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

Matt 16 -- isn't that the chapter where Jesus said to Peter "get thee behind Me Satan!" -- and you are asking "what if it means exactly what it says"?

In John 6 Jesus says that eating literal flesh and blood "is nothing"...and you are asking "what if it means exactly what it says"?
 
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BobRyan

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Valletta said:
John 6:53-56
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him."

Jesus said this with a piece of bread and a cup of wine in his hand

No he did not. John 6 is not a communion service.

And also in John 6 Jesus did not say "some day in the future you will have to eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood"

In addition -- if the followers of Jesus began literally biting him in John 6 - there would not be "the Cross" at all. He would have died then and there.

Matt 16 - Jesus hammers the disciples for taking the symbol of bread too literally

6 And Jesus said to them, “Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 7 They began to discuss this among themselves, saying, “He said that because we did not bring any bread.” 8 But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why are you discussing among yourselves the fact that you have no bread? 9 Do you not yet understand nor remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets you picked up? 10 Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets you picked up? 11 How is it that you do not understand that I did not speak to you about bread? But beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not say to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
 
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Valletta

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If Jesus comes tomorrow, most everybody is going to be surprised when he says, "That's not quite what I meant."

But we should do our best to understand anyway.
The Bible stresses the importance:
1 Cor 11:23-29
For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself.
 
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