A few questions for those who believe in partial atonement (also called limited atonement)

zoidar · Feb 26, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
Clever title, by the way. Who says "partial atonement"? The term is Particular Redemption.

Hm, the meaning of particular redemption sounds unclear though. I could say I believe in unlimited atonement, yet a person is not redeemed until he is saved. Wouldn't that also be particular redemption?

John Mullally · Feb 26, 2021

The Holy Spirit speaking through Peter promises the remission of sins and gift of the Holy Spirit (this is arguably salvation) to those who repent and are baptized (in verse 38). Verse 39 says that that offer extends to today.

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them

zoidar · Feb 26, 2021

Kenny'sID said:
I doubt too many would disagree, the scriptue following this, the one I posted earlier here, is referring to works when it states we must do good or go to hell.

Point being, works are very clearly in that scripture, not only important as you say, but cricial to getting us to heaven. The scripture is so simple and clear, the only way to not see that we must do good in order to get to heaven is, if we choose not to see it. It's simplicity is why I like the following so much.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

I like to know how you answer this question. If God judges us on works, why can't a Buddhist be saved that is doing good works? Why is faith necessary?

I'm going to bed. Good night!

Kenny'sID · Feb 26, 2021

zoidar said:
I like to know how you answer this question. If God judges us on works, why can't a Buddhist be saved that is doing good works? Why is faith necessary?

I'm going to bed. Good night!

Faith, the gospel, accepting Christ as savior, the whoe ball of wax are necessary, and if he's a Buddhist, he can't have accepted Christ.

BobRyan · Feb 26, 2021

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Please just answer the question.

The one who "is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" 2 Peter 3

BobRyan · Feb 26, 2021

zoidar said:
I like to know how you answer this question. If God judges us on works, why can't a Buddhist be saved that is doing good works? Why is faith necessary?

I'm going to bed. Good night!

well it depends -- Is that Buddhist a born-again saved saint?

Rom 8:4-11
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 26, 2021

BobRyan said:
The one who "is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" 2 Peter 3

What is His name?

Mark Quayle · Feb 26, 2021

zoidar said:
Hm, the meaning of particular redemption sounds unclear though. I could say I believe in unlimited atonement, yet a person is not redeemed until he is saved. Wouldn't that also be particular redemption?

Not sure what you mean by "saved", then. Are you talking about when he arrives in Heaven? Or are you talking about the moment of Christ's death, or are you talking about the moment of Regeneration? A person is saved from the guilt, and enslavement of sin, upon regeneration, by faith, because of the Holy Spirit taking up residence in a person.

Whatever, Redemption happens only to those to whom God chose (from the foundation of the world) to show mercy, for whom Christ died. No others. (And just so you won't go there like others do here: No, a person need not know how it happens for it to happen. He need not find out whether he is chosen to be among the chosen.)

BobRyan · Feb 26, 2021

Handmaid for Jesus said:
What is His name?

YHWH (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit)

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 26, 2021

BobRyan said:
YHWH (God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit)

Phil.2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Navair2 · Feb 26, 2021

zoidar said:
1. Can I know with 100% certainty that I am of the elect?

Yes.

zoidar said:
How do I know with 100% certainty I am of the elect?

Do you fit what is stated in 1 John 4:7-21 and 1 John 5:1-13?

Norbert L · Feb 26, 2021

Clare73 said:
Was not the reward Paul spoke of related to his works of building (1Co 3:10-14), and the prize related to his motives (1Co 9:27),
and neither to his salvation (1Co 3:15), since salvation is the Lord's (Rev 7:10).

Here's another time that Paul was questioning himself about his success and the will of Jesus. "I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain." Galatians 2:2

Have you ever had one of those moments where you just weren't sure?

Aussie Pete · Feb 26, 2021

zoidar said:
This thread is purely for discussing partial atonement, not whether it is true or not, but what follows the belief of the doctrine.

1. Can I know with 100% certainty that I am of the elect?

2. If the answer to question 1 is "no", then can I know with 100% certainty that Christ has borne my sins?

3. If the answer to question 2 is "no" then how can I fully trust on Jesus for salvation if I can't be 100% sure Jesus has borne my sins?

Is there a problem here, or is it simply a misunderstanding on my part? This doctrine can seem to divide us, but if we belong to Christ we are still one family. Be blessed brothers and sisters!

You prove that you are one of the elect when you receive Christ. Allowing doctrine to divide in one of Christianity's major failings. God is NOT interested in how accurate our doctrines are. He looks at how loving we are, whether or not we live in harmony with each other and whether or not we can humble ourselves. Our enemy is Satan, not each other. It is possible, and even necessary, to agree to disagree at times.

zoidar · Feb 27, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
Not sure what you mean by "saved", then. Are you talking about when he arrives in Heaven? Or are you talking about the moment of Christ's death, or are you talking about the moment of Regeneration? A person is saved from the guilt, and enslavement of sin, upon regeneration, by faith, because of the Holy Spirit taking up residence in a person.

Whatever, Redemption happens only to those to whom God chose (from the foundation of the world) to show mercy, for whom Christ died. No others. (And just so you won't go there like others do here: No, a person need not know how it happens for it to happen. He need not find out whether he is chosen to be among the chosen.)

With remdeemed I meant the moment of regeneration, where you are born again, saved. I guess it's also how you use the words. When I say atonement I mean what happened on the cross. When I say redeemed I mean what happend to us when receiving the atonement.

What do you mean you have to find out if you are among the chosen? Doesn't the Bible say if you are born again you are chosen?

Dave L · Feb 27, 2021

Handmaid for Jesus said:
One must believe in order to be saved.
Read and understand.
Romans10: 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

This is pure legalism and salvation by works. You cannot recite a chant and save yourself. If Christ saved you, you will do all these things as a matter of routine. And Paul assures those who are speaking about Christ are saved or they would not believe.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 27, 2021

Dave L said:
This is pure legalism and salvation by works. You cannot recite a chant and save yourself. If Christ saved you, you will do all these things as a matter of routine. And Paul assures those who are speaking about Christ are saved or they would not believe.

So you don't have to believe to be saved? So why would Paul and Silas intruct the jailer to believe? Read Acts 16:9 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Romans10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher

Dave L · Feb 27, 2021

Handmaid for Jesus said:
So you don't have to believe to be saved? So why would Paul and Silas intruct the jailer to believe? Read Acts 16:9 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Romans10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, not something you try to conjure up in the flesh. If you believe the gospel without choosing to believe it, it is because you are saved by grace. Only the born again can believe this way.

If you must choose to believe, it is because you don't believe. But must force the sinful flesh to believe in a false Christ version that appeals to it.

Handmaid for Jesus · Feb 27, 2021

Dave L said:
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, not something you try to conjure up in the flesh. If you believe the gospel without choosing to believe it, it is because you are saved by grace. Only the born again can believe this way.

If you must choose to believe, it is because you don't believe. But must force the sinful flesh to believe in a false Christ version that appeals to it.

OK let me understand you. From your posts I understand that you:
1. You believe Jesus is a false Christ.
2. the "christ" you promote does not require one to believe.
3. One can believe the gospel without choosing to believe it.

Ok! I got you. My prayer above includes you.

Clare73 · Feb 27, 2021

Bible Highlighter said:
When I read the Scriptures, I see 4 different aspects of salvation described.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

#2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).

Conclusion:

Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement

Sanctification requires obedience. There is no sanctification of habitual sin.

Dave L · Feb 27, 2021

Handmaid for Jesus said:
OK let me understand you. From your posts I understand that you:
1. You believe Jesus is a false Christ.
2. the "christ" you promote does not require one to believe.
3. One can believe the gospel without choosing to believe it.

Ok! I got you. My prayer above includes you.

What you assume is completely false for the most part. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. If you believe in the true Christ, it is because he gave you the faith to believe in him. Faith tells you he died for you.

If someone taps you on the shoulder, you believe they did because of the experience. You do not need to choose to believe someone tapped you on the shoulder. So it is with believing in Christ. You experience the New Birth (fruit of the Spirit) and that causes you to believe in him. It's an experience, not a blind work of the flesh.

A few questions for those who believe in partial atonement (also called limited atonement)

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

You can't steal my joy

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Junior Member

You can't steal my joy

May the Lord Jesus Christ be magnified above all

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

loves Jesus the Christ! ✝️

Well-Known Member

You can't steal my joy

Well-Known Member

You can't steal my joy

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Similar threads