What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

Strong in Him · Feb 25, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
What's funny is how disciples scattered at Jesus' statement. And you put those thoughts in Jesus mouth.? Riot, that.

No, I said " what if?"
If a church believes they are doing communion the right way, no one else is, and only those who share their beliefs can take communion with them, that is going to cause division.

Though actually I said "church leaders," not just Catholics - arguments are not good.

SabbathBlessings · Feb 25, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

Thanks for quoting me

these were the scriptures I posted.

What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read:

Ten Commandments: Exodus 20

Mathew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

God said His Sabbath is a sign between Him and His people and it is a perpetual covenant

Exodus 31:13 Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.

Ezekiel 20: 20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

We are saved by Grace (His gift) but if you love Jesus you will keep His commandments.

I believe God means exactly what He says. I believe He is unchanging because He told us that. Hebrews 13:8 Malachi 3:6 God bless

Root of Jesse · Feb 25, 2021

Strong in Him said:
No, you haven't - but some of your fellow Catholics have said just that on these forums.

Well, anytime you attribute others' actions to one individual, you're off base, brother. No offense taken. I know what you mean, but it's not the Church's position. I speak for what the Church believes and teaches. Not what some of my fellows do. For instance, Joe Biden is a Catholic but he believes abortion is a right.

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

Strong in Him said:
No, I said " what if?"
If a church believes they are doing communion the right way, no one else is, and only those who share their beliefs can take communion with them, that is going to cause division.

Though actually I said "church leaders," not just Catholics - arguments are not good.

Well, Jesus said "You must eat my flesh and drink my blood in order to have eternal life." And his disciples slinked off into the darkness, back to their former lives. So the Church teaches that it is important that Eucharist be taken seriously, that it is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of He Himself. Others think it's a memorial service, like what you do when a friend dies. So how is it that church leaders made it something other than what Jesus said it was?

It's ok. It's just that another thread got closed before I could get these remarks in. What if what Jesus is said to have said is really true??? And that's why I brought up the two biggest bones you folks have with Catholic teaching. Peter being the first pope and the Eucharist. Oh, and that little thing about Baptism now saves you...
I have never been critical of Protestants, mostly. I were once one. But Protestants, not you specifically, are often critical of Catholics. Most of the time it's because Catholics, those butts in the seats, aren't being Catholic enough, and on that, I can agree. There's also Catholics who are more Catholic than the Pope himself, and I'm not that either. Just doin' the best I can here in my new home, migrated from the formerly great state of California to Georgia.

chad kincham · Feb 26, 2021

Peter was never part of the gentile Roman Catholic Church.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews, wrote Paul - and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles - which is why Paul wrote the book of Romans, and not Peter.

The RCC is full of revisionist history.

Dave L · Feb 26, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

What you are saying is, "what if these scriptures say what the Papacy wants them to say".

NomNomPizza · Feb 26, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

what if not?

Deuteronomy 32:4

King James Version

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

1 Corinthians 10:4

King James Version

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

If Peter is the rock then he is God

SabbathBlessings · Feb 26, 2021

NomNomPizza said:
what if not?

Deuteronomy 32:4

King James Version

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

1 Corinthians 10:4

King James Version

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

If Peter is the rock then he is God

And there is this:

Mathew 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men

God’s church are the ones who believe in all of God’s Word, not commandments of man. Jesus tells us this in Mathew 15:8-9. God bless

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

chad kincham said:
Peter was never part of the gentile Roman Catholic Church.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews, wrote Paul - and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles - which is why Paul wrote the book of Romans, and not Peter.

The RCC is full of revisionist history.

Peter died in Rome, though.

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

Dave L said:
What you are saying is, "what if these scriptures say what the Papacy wants them to say".

No, you said that. A plain reading of the two scriptures, not the papacy, but certainly the fathers of the Church, say exactly that doctrine of the Eucharist. Jesus wouldn't tell us we must do something and not give us a way to do what he said. Likewise, at Caesarea Philippi, the Holy Spirit chose Peter to proclaim the words, and Jesus told him "No flesh and blood has revealed this to you." And made him the head of the Apostles, and thus the Church.

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

NomNomPizza said:
what if not?

Deuteronomy 32:4

King James Version

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

1 Corinthians 10:4

King James Version

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

If Peter is the rock then he is God

Calling Peter Rock doesn't mean that Jesus is not Rock.

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

imge said:
And there is this:

Mathew 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men

God’s church are the ones who believe in all of God’s Word, not commandments of man. Jesus tells us this in Mathew 15:8-9. God bless

Oh, never heard that one before. Making Peter head of the Apostles doesn't make him sinless. Or error-less.

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

chad kincham said:
Peter was never part of the gentile Roman Catholic Church.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews, wrote Paul - and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles - which is why Paul wrote the book of Romans, and not Peter.

The RCC is full of revisionist history.

So is the Protestant Reformation, changing the meaning of words, snipping this and that out of doctrine because it's inconvenient.

SabbathBlessings · Feb 26, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Oh, never heard that one before. Making Peter head of the Apostles doesn't make him sinless. Or error-less.

True, but God's church is built on His Word, not on the apostle Paul, a man.

Dave L · Feb 26, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
No, you said that. A plain reading of the two scriptures, not the papacy, but certainly the fathers of the Church, say exactly that doctrine of the Eucharist. Jesus wouldn't tell us we must do something and not give us a way to do what he said. Likewise, at Caesarea Philippi, the Holy Spirit chose Peter to proclaim the words, and Jesus told him "No flesh and blood has revealed this to you." And made him the head of the Apostles, and thus the Church.

Scripture alone defines the Church and Church offices. Nothing that formed into the visible institutional churches after the first century can be found in the New Testament.

Bruce Leiter · Feb 26, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Another poster once asked: What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

I agree. What if John 6 means exactly what it says? What if Matthew 16:18-20 means exactly what it says, and makes Peter the head of the apostles, and thus the entire Church, and his successors the same?

Please take every passage in its context. After Jesus commends Peter for his profession of faith, Peter rebukes Jesus for saying that he was going to die and rise from the dead. Jesus tells him to get away from him, while addressing him as Satan! So, it wasn't Peter who was the foundation and leader but his faith, though weak. Also, later, James makes the final decision at the first Jerusalem Council.

In terms of John 6, Jesus' seven "I am" statements are figurative descriptions of his spirtual reality, not literal descriptions. When he wanted the crowd to eat his flesh and drink his blood, he was testing the crowd's raal allegiance, who had followed him after being fed with bread and fish when Jesus fed the 5,000 earlier in the chapter. Again, the context helps us understand the true meaning of a passage.

Berean Tim · Feb 26, 2021

Root of Jesse said:
Peter died in Rome, though.

When did Peter go to Rome ? 1 Peter 5:13 is usually the reference people quote.

1 Peter 5:13 She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.

What if Babylon in this passage isn't Rome ? I believe Mystery Babylon in Revelation is Jerusalem. I believe Peter is using Babylon as Jerusalem here as well.

Is there another Biblical reference for Peter going to Rome or is it just tradition ?

Berean Tim · Feb 26, 2021

Dave L said:
Scripture alone defines the Church and Church offices. Nothing that formed into the visible institutional churches after the first century can be found in the New Testament.

Don't look now but we agree LOL. I'm sure we agree on a lot more. Good to see you posting

Valletta · Feb 26, 2021

chad kincham said:
Peter was never part of the gentile Roman Catholic Church.

Peter was the apostle to the Jews, wrote Paul - and Paul was the apostle to the gentiles - which is why Paul wrote the book of Romans, and not Peter.

The RCC is full of revisionist history.

Jesus used words paralleling Isaiah 22 when he renamed Simon as Rock (Peter) and gave him the keys to the kingdom. In Isaiah, the king gives the keys to the kingdom to his prime minister as a sign of authority. The prime minister has authority over everyone in the kingdom.

Root of Jesse · Feb 26, 2021

imge said:
True, but God's church is built on His Word, not on the apostle Paul, a man.

Really? I didn't know that. And yet the Church is built on God's Word. Jesus. But Jesus put someone he knew to be trustworthy in charge. He told Peter that he should stop thinking in earthly terms and start thinking in terms of eternity. Peter did that, and let the Church in the first generation.

What if Jesus comes tomorrow and it turns out these scriptures mean exactly as they read?

Great is thy faithfulness

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