Why would God choose choose circumcision for His Covenant?

Davy

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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.

Yeah I know how it happened, it was a symbol that made them God's people. I've read that for ancient deals, ancient rites, and in those days seals/alliances were sealed with blood and flesh, Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?

It could have been a tattoo, an earring, a knife scar in the chest/back, etc

I've studied many wars and empires, so I'm used to read narratives about massacres, beheadings, mass rape, torture, burning, razing... And I have no problem reading things alike in the Bible (book of Joshua especially), but everytime circumcision is mentioned, I get a headache (ok, not a literal headache, but you get the idea). Seriously, if I had to choose I would gladly give up the skin of the 5 fingers of the right hand rather than losing my foreskin.

And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

Thank you

Important to consider for health reasons. Many of God's laws He gave under the Old Covenant involved cleanliness. And He did say He chose Israel to be a peculiar people unto Himself (Exodus 19:5-6).

Circumcision is a medically healthy practice.
 
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Davy

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It's a healthy practice because the result promotes cleanliness. It's easier to keep it clean. Looking back in history in the dusty middle east, when people didn't have the luxury of taking a shower every day, such a practice aided in cleanliness. It still promotes cleanliness today in that part of the man.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.

Yeah I know how it happened, it was a symbol that made them God's people. I've read that for ancient deals, ancient rites, and in those days seals/alliances were sealed with blood and flesh, Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?

It could have been a tattoo, an earring, a knife scar in the chest/back, etc

I've studied many wars and empires, so I'm used to read narratives about massacres, beheadings, mass rape, torture, burning, razing... And I have no problem reading things alike in the Bible (book of Joshua especially), but everytime circumcision is mentioned, I get a headache (ok, not a literal headache, but you get the idea). Seriously, if I had to choose I would gladly give up the skin of the 5 fingers of the right hand rather than losing my foreskin.

And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

Thank you
Welcome !
Honestly, no one can answer that question with full confidence.
 
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Joey16Vargas

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It's a healthy practice because the result promotes cleanliness. It's easier to keep it clean. Looking back in history in the dusty middle east, when people didn't have the luxury of taking a shower every day, such a practice aided in cleanliness. It still promotes cleanliness today in that part of the man.
Not convinced yet. Women used to live in the desert too, and women have more layers of flesh in the groin, however they weren't cutting women's labia to help hygiene, and plus when they were having their period, it would'be been way more difficult
 
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bling

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Not convinced yet. Women used to live in the desert too, and women have more layers of flesh in the groin, however they weren't cutting women's labia to help hygiene, and plus when they were having their period, it would'be been way more difficult
Babies heal the quickest from cuts without modern day medication, on the eighth day. Some adults today are circumcised for health reasons, while women do not have that same issue. The Jews lived in a desert region of the world with limited water supply. One reason is: it is for their good.
 
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Norbert L

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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.... Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?
What's the alternative back then when humanity was practicing things like Temple prostitution and participating in sacred sex rituals? Remember the lesson of Balaam, he couldn't curse Israel but he knew how to undermine their relationship with God.

In general there are a substantial number of human beings that are more inclined to be lovers of pleasure rather than God. The way I see it, circumcision is more of a statement to all other supernatural gods that true worship of God has nothing to do with ceremonial sex.

Just to add, what better way to show faithfulness to the one true God when the your entire group of men would rather be circumcised than participate in ritual coitus as a fertility rite.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

When I read this the immediate thought that came to mind was that God created man in His image and from man woman was made.

I have been told that it is more hygienic being circumcised.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.

Yeah I know how it happened, it was a symbol that made them God's people. I've read that for ancient deals, ancient rites, and in those days seals/alliances were sealed with blood and flesh, Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?

It could have been a tattoo, an earring, a knife scar in the chest/back, etc

I've studied many wars and empires, so I'm used to read narratives about massacres, beheadings, mass rape, torture, burning, razing... And I have no problem reading things alike in the Bible (book of Joshua especially), but everytime circumcision is mentioned, I get a headache (ok, not a literal headache, but you get the idea). Seriously, if I had to choose I would gladly give up the skin of the 5 fingers of the right hand rather than losing my foreskin.

And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

Thank you

Just a thought, not that this is all that is going on with circumcision, but:

(And this may sound off-topic, or like a tangent, but I don't think so). I have noticed that those who mock Judaism's and Christianity's attendance to

circumcision like to point to the fact that it is 'unnatural'. Even you said it 'harms'. Truth is, it is painful too, though I don't remember, lol. Without arguing the merits of whether it harms or not or whether it is worth the pain, I think it is obvious, specially in modern times, that people think of themselves as individual entities, complete in and of themselves. possessed of a certain dignity by their mere existence, quite apart from any consideration of subservience to or dependence on God. Most never even realize that it might be strange to consider God as only a mere option, when in fact he is not only our creator, but our very sustenance --that much we are entrenched in our worldview of what we consider 'reality' and 'existence'. Since Adam, and certainly lately, we have declared independence from God, even we Christians have that mindset. We really are ignorant concerning who we are and who God is.

Mankind was not designed for mankind, nor the individual for himself, but for GOD. We are not complete beings until we see him as he is. When the ultimately lost see him, and are removed of all graces and virtues, the husk that is left is hardly possessed of anything resembling what we presently consider human --perhaps arms and legs or something is all, I don't know.

With circumcision God is demonstrating that man, 'as natural', is not what we are made for. "Why the sexual organ" and "Why men, not women", are questions that beg many implications --I won't go there right now, but I am sure both are relevant.

As for the notion that God is wrong to cause any large (and therefore, logically, even small, such as in circumcision) pain and suffering: Still the question is wrong in assuming that we have some dignity in our own right, to which God owes respect. He owes us nothing. (Even his word kept is not because he owes it to us, but because he keeps his word. It is who he is.)
 
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Joey16Vargas

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When I read this the immediate thought that came to mind was that God created man in His image and from man woman was made.

I have been told that it is more hygienic being circumcised.

Well, I don't get what you're trying to say in the first part.

In the second, that's what said in the US, but think about it, only 33% of the men are circumcised worldwide, and of this 33%, most of them are because of Islam.
Consider this, basically every european country doesn't circumcise, as well as the 2 most populated countries in the world, alongside Japan, South America, Canada, New Zealand, etc

Those “benefits” of circumcision are not that real
 
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Mark Quayle

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Why wouldn't God ask to also make a sign on women?
Agreed. I think there are interesting implications there, that modern political correctness will not like.
 
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Consider this, basically every european country doesn't circumcise, as well as the 2 most populated countries in the world, alongside Japan, South America, Canada, New Zealand, etc

Those “benefits” of circumcision are not that real
The question asked was about God and Man in a different place and time, however.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Welcome !
Honestly, no one can answer that question with full confidence.
Maybe there are some old Jewish writers/ philosophers that have written on the question. Might be interesting what they think about it.
 
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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.

Yeah I know how it happened, it was a symbol that made them God's people. I've read that for ancient deals, ancient rites, and in those days seals/alliances were sealed with blood and flesh, Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?

It could have been a tattoo, an earring, a knife scar in the chest/back, etc

I've studied many wars and empires, so I'm used to read narratives about massacres, beheadings, mass rape, torture, burning, razing... And I have no problem reading things alike in the Bible (book of Joshua especially), but everytime circumcision is mentioned, I get a headache (ok, not a literal headache, but you get the idea). Seriously, if I had to choose I would gladly give up the skin of the 5 fingers of the right hand rather than losing my foreskin.

And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

Thank you
Circumcision was practiced by the ancient Egyptians before the Bible was written.

Egyptian Circumcision Before the Time of Abraham
 
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Joey16Vargas

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Leet

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Circumcision causes the male to lose sexual sensitivity. I don't understand it either, although I begrudgingly admit the cleanliness factor in ancient times. No excuse for it today imo, other than in the rare cases of a very tight, unretractable and uncomfortable foreskin as was the case with my nephew (who had the op age 2 and a half).
 
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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.

Yeah I know how it happened, it was a symbol that made them God's people. I've read that for ancient deals, ancient rites, and in those days seals/alliances were sealed with blood and flesh, Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?

It could have been a tattoo, an earring, a knife scar in the chest/back, etc

I've studied many wars and empires, so I'm used to read narratives about massacres, beheadings, mass rape, torture, burning, razing... And I have no problem reading things alike in the Bible (book of Joshua especially), but everytime circumcision is mentioned, I get a headache (ok, not a literal headache, but you get the idea). Seriously, if I had to choose I would gladly give up the skin of the 5 fingers of the right hand rather than losing my foreskin.

And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

Thank you

Like all sacraments, circumcision is rich with meaning.

The male sex organ is marked to remind the Israelites that they are a holy seed and that the redeemer will come from the seed of Abraham.

Flesh is removed as a sign of the removal of the sin nature (a removal of the flesh). Jesus also was "cut off" on the cross in order to seal the covenant. The removal of flesh points to him.

Blood is involved as a sign of the cost of sealing the covenant. This likewise points to Christ.

Circumcision is an indelible mark in the body that a person carries with them forever to be a sign of the enduring nature of the covenant.

There is also a certain convenience to it. If something is to be cut off, I suppose the foreskin is not a terrible candidate.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. But just like baptism, circumcision is a sign of rebirth, cleansing, and atonement.
 
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I think, as with many things in dealing wit God there isnt just one definitive reason, His ways are much greater than ours, so while we humans may have one motivating reason for why we do things, when God requests, allows or causes something to happen it accomplishes not just one purpose but multiple purposes.

His reasons for that particular action could be for many reasons:
Anything from hygiene for the time that humanity was under the law to simply testing Abraham and those to follow.

I saw it said that "Id rather poke a hole in my ear than that".

I believe that is oart of the point. I rammed an earring through my ear when I was 14 just cause I wanted to pierce my ear, could I not have done the same to follow God and it cost me very little pain?

IF I were a grown man slicing off a part of myself there, would it not only be a huge commitment, help my hygienicly, be a pain that remained in my head AND due to the pain would have bought me a time of lack of desire to sin by the lusts of flesh?

It will really all come down to human speculation, but as with just about all things, I dont believe humanity will ever understand or have 100% of the answers as to why God does, requests or allows anything, on this side of eternity at least. We can just make a few educated guesses at best.
 
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True, but neither is a tattoo or pierced ears gentle; and the baby doesn't remember the circumcision.
Simply he wanted to make males less sensitive and so they don't touch so much and do orgies like gentiles did. Just like with all these food laws which were not required to Noah and all other humans untill Moses . God wanted to have distinct people.

If he really wanted everybody without forsekin he wouldn't make foreskins in first place since all he does is perfection , why make something imperfect to begin with?

Some people say nonsense like " circumcision helps with infections and hygiene " but it's not reason God did it because when Jews were punished in desert they did not circumcise males yet it would be best thing to do because of infections , hygiene and lack of water in desert.
 
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Nathan@work

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Wow. So many thoughts.

It has nothing to do with anything physical(cleanliness and such). Just like not eating pork had nothing to do with health reasons.

Circumcision was simply a foretelling of what was going to come. All of Gods “laws” are.

Everything pointed to Christ, and what God ultimately does for us. Yes, you read that right - what God does for us.....not what we do.

Remember, it’s all about God. Not us.

They circumcised to show what God would do for the one with Faith. He would cut the flesh that covered the ‘sensitivity’ of the ONLY part of us that can reproduce.

In cutting away the ‘flesh’, God was showing that He would cut away the old flesh of the one with Faith, and expose the new flesh - a sensitive one towards Him.

Most importantly, God started this with Abram in order to show it has nothing to do with the law He would eventually give.
 
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Well, the OT was a bit harsh when it comes to rules and laws, but still I struggle to understand why God would ask such a thing to seal His Covenant.

Yeah I know how it happened, it was a symbol that made them God's people. I've read that for ancient deals, ancient rites, and in those days seals/alliances were sealed with blood and flesh, Ok I get it, why did God choose to harm a baby's penis in order to seal His pact?

It could have been a tattoo, an earring, a knife scar in the chest/back, etc

I've studied many wars and empires, so I'm used to read narratives about massacres, beheadings, mass rape, torture, burning, razing... And I have no problem reading things alike in the Bible (book of Joshua especially), but everytime circumcision is mentioned, I get a headache (ok, not a literal headache, but you get the idea). Seriously, if I had to choose I would gladly give up the skin of the 5 fingers of the right hand rather than losing my foreskin.

And besides, God only ask men to be marked, He never demanded that women were to have a sign too.

What do you think is the reason God choose to mark men in his most personal area?

Thank you

Why do you ask the question "why?" when the Bible doesn't answer your question? I have a whole list of questions I would like to ask God when I get there, but I probably won't care to ask them. The real question that we all have to ask is whether we can submit to his silence. It's enough for me to know that he must have had a good reason but hasn't revealed it.
 
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