When all does not mean all.

Randy777 said:

Again not the proper context=>one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people

Jesus didn't teach that. The Apostles didn't teach that.
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

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There is plenty of other support for UR. This isn't an isolated scripture. Here are a few more.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Saint Steven said:

To the best of my knowledge the Apostle Paul wrote this. How can you say the Apostles never taught this?

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

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The Apostle Paul did not teach all mankind will be made righteous in Christ. He Himself stated he believed in a resurrection of the unrighteous so he sought to keep a clear conscience before God. The context is ALL in Christ.

Randy777 said:

The unrighteous are raised to judgment as in to be condemned. I believe the words tormented in regard to the lake of fire suggests awareness. I believe there is no change of mind in regard to that judgment.
So there are "eternal" consequences.

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I used to believe that unquestioningly until I read this scripture below. Then a light went on. The term "those who believe" is a subset of "all people".

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Saint Steven said:

There is plenty of other support for UR. This isn't an isolated scripture. Here are a few more.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

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The gospel was sent to the whole world outside of Israel.

He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

Saint Steven said:

I used to believe that unquestioningly until I read this scripture below. Then a light went on. The term "those who believe" is a subset of "all people".

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Click to expand...

The head of the body of Christ.
Jesus=>I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

Its not for man to choose how to forgive sin.

Jesus=>"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to

Randy777 said:

The Apostle Paul did not teach all mankind will be made righteous in Christ. He Himself stated he believed in a resurrection of the unrighteous so he sought to keep a clear conscience before God. The context is ALL in Christ.

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Well, that's EXACTLY what he wrote here.
The many that were made sinners (all) will be made righteous through the obedience of the one man. (Christ) Unless you believe "the one man" is someone else?

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Randy777 said:

The gospel was sent to the whole world outside of Israel.

He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.

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Say what?
The Apostle Paul had two missionary trips to bring the gospel outside of Israel. (for starters)

Saint Steven said:

Well, that's EXACTLY what he wrote here.
The many that were made sinners (all) will be made righteous through the obedience of the one man. (Christ) Unless you believe "the one man" is someone else?

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Click to expand...

I believe many have been purchased for God by the blood of Christ from all nations. But many more have rejected Gods grace and mercy for them.

Saint Steven said:

Say what?
The Apostle Paul had two missionary trips to bring the gospel outside of Israel. (for starters)

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Where do you live?

Randy777 said:

The head of the body of Christ.
Jesus=>I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

Its not for man to choose how to forgive sin.

Jesus=>"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to

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You are doing a fairly good job of presenting one of the three views. But there are two other views. The Bible was translated with a Damnationist bias. Not easy for me to argue my case with a Damnationist text.
1) Damnationism
2) Anihilationism
3) Universal Restorationism

Randy777 said:

Where do you live?

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Did you know that Universalism was the prevailing doctrine in the early church? FYI

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96
German theologian- Philip Schaff writes :

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

Randy777 said:

Where do you live?

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Outside of Israel.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Say what?
The Apostle Paul had two missionary trips to bring the gospel outside of Israel. (for starters)

Randy777 said:

I believe many have been purchased for God by the blood of Christ from all nations. But many more have rejected Gods grace and mercy for them.

Click to expand...

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Saint Steven said:

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

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Jesus=>The Parable of the Wedding Banquet
Many are invited but few are chosen

Gods desire is to bless not to punish

God lead Israel out of Egypt. His desire was for them all to live in a land of milk and honey. Yet many of them perished in the desert because of their unbelief and disobedience. That wasn't Gods intent in freeing them from the bondage of the Egyptians. That was a consequence of their disobedience.

Clearly not all people are saved. Though Christ offered Himself for all. The invitation was sent to all. In Christ alone all are made alive.

Saint Steven said:

Outside of Israel.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Say what?
The Apostle Paul had two missionary trips to bring the gospel outside of Israel. (for starters)

Click to expand...

But Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations before the end comes. Obviously the limited lifespans of the apostles means the message would be sent by o

Saint Steven said:

Did you know that Universalism was the prevailing doctrine in the early church? FYI

"The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge"
by Schaff-Herzog, 1908, volume 12, page 96
German theologian- Philip Schaff writes :

"In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."

Click to expand...

Perhaps you should consider Jesus's conversation with Nicodemus?

Those who "God" calls His children.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Jesus is the head of the body of Christ. I follow Him. I am heavily influenced by the Spirit of Christ in me.

If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Its in Him we live. Its in Him we are held together.

"Sanctified by faith in me"
Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Michael Collum said:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

So all die in adam and so all will be made alive.

However, since - eternal torment -

It means some people don't die, since most people will not be made alive in Christ.

Comments?

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Generalization is always a matter of perspective. "All" thus can be an absolute, when it is in the sentence "all die in Adam", but it can be perspective generalization in "all will be made alive". It simply means many, or a lot. Grammatically, this makes the two parts of the whole verse look "the same".

You can say something similar,
US is built by all people of Americans.
US president is elected by all people of America.
...etc.

The reverse is also true,

Romans 5:19 (NIV2011)
For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

"many were made sinners" is actually all.
"many will be made righteous" means many.

Randy777 said:

Clearly not all people are saved.

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Sorry. That is an unbiblical claim.

Saint Steven said:

Sorry. That is an unbiblical claim.

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Clearly you are very mistaken.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it

The ratio isn't even even.

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."



and come out--those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

Randy777 said:

But Jesus said the gospel must be preached to all nations before the end comes. Obviously the limited lifespans of the apostles means the message would be sent by o

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Seriously? That is your claim?

Randy777 said:

Perhaps you should consider Jesus's conversation with Nicodemus?

Those who "God" calls His children.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Jesus is the head of the body of Christ. I follow Him. I am heavily influenced by the Spirit of Christ in me.

Click to expand...

I agree. "... no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit." So...

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: (Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 15:4)