When people say “God/The Father told me x, y, and z...”

Butterball1

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Do you believe them?

Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV


John 14:26 KJV


Is the concept of followers of Christ hearing audibly(or in our head) from God the Father supported by scripture?
I do not believe them.

Hebrews 1:1-2 shows a clear distinction in how God communicated with those under the OT law to how He communicates with us today. Under the OT law God communicated through angels, prophets, dreams, visions or spoke directly. Today God commuicates to us through His son Jesus Christ. Christ is the Testator of the NT (Hebrews 9:16-17). Certain men were selected by God and endowed to miraculously receive revelatory, inspired "words" (1 Corinthians 2:13) from the Holy Spirit and write those inspired words down where we today can read and understand those written down words, (Ephesians 3:3-4). Since Christ speaks to us today by His written word, He says the exact same thing to all men. I have seen those who claim direct communication from God not only contradict each other, but contradict God's written word...yet God does not contradict Himself.
Does God Speak Directly to People Today?

The context of John 14:26 Jesus is speaking to His Apostles (pronoun "you" refers to the Apostles) promisng the Apostles and them only, the Comforter and not anyone today.
 
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Strong in Him

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Since Christ speaks to us today by His written word, He says the exact same thing to all men. I have seen those who claim direct communication from God not only contradict each other, but contradict God's written word...

There is no new revelation about God, or the faith - everything we need to know about him and our salvation is in Scripture; that is true. Cults such as the Moonies, JWs etc whose founders claimed direct revelation and "extra" messages from God should have their claims tested against Scripture. If this were not so and we had nothing to measure such claims against, then anyone could claim that anything they said was from God and we'd all end up believing it - this is true.

But God still speaks to us today and can guide us in our choice of career etc - a matter which the Bible does not address.

The context of John 14:26 Jesus is speaking to His Apostles (pronoun "you" refers to the Apostles) promisng the Apostles and them only, the Comforter and not anyone today.

So no Christian today has the Holy Spirit?
How then can anyone be born again, John 3:3? And if we aren't born again, how can we be Christians?

At the time, Jesus' close followers were called disciples - learners; they were called Apostles (which means 'sent') after the ascension, when they were sent.
I don't know about you, but I am a disciple of Jesus - therefore his words were for me too.
Otherwise what would have been the point of writing the NT? Why record Jesus' words if they were only for the 12 who followed him? Why would Paul have written Romans 8 - life in the Spirit, or 1 Corinthians 12 - the gifts of the Spirit, or Galatians 5:22-23, the fruit of the Spirit, if only the Apostles were able to receive the Spirit? For that matter, why record the events at Pentecost where the Spirit was poured out on all? What about the book of Acts, which records the apostles preaching the Gospel and Gentiles, former Pharisees and magicians believe and receive the Holy Spirit? That clearly shows that the Spirit was not just given to the apostles.

If the Holy Spirit wasn't given to anyone today, no one could believe, since it is the Spirit who draws us to Christ. There would be no Bible either, since he inspired it to be written.
 
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Butterball1

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There is no new revelation about God, or the faith - everything we need to know about him and our salvation is in Scripture; that is true. Cults such as the Moonies, JWs etc whose founders claimed direct revelation and "extra" messages from God should have their claims tested against Scripture. If this were not so and we had nothing to measure such claims against, then anyone could claim that anything they said was from God and we'd all end up believing it - this is true.

But God still speaks to us today and can guide us in our choice of career etc - a matter which the Bible does not address.



So no Christian today has the Holy Spirit?
How then can anyone be born again, John 3:3? And if we aren't born again, how can we be Christians?

At the time, Jesus' close followers were called disciples - learners; they were called Apostles (which means 'sent') after the ascension, when they were sent.
I don't know about you, but I am a disciple of Jesus - therefore his words were for me too.
Otherwise what would have been the point of writing the NT? Why record Jesus' words if they were only for the 12 who followed him? Why would Paul have written Romans 8 - life in the Spirit, or 1 Corinthians 12 - the gifts of the Spirit, or Galatians 5:22-23, the fruit of the Spirit, if only the Apostles were able to receive the Spirit? For that matter, why record the events at Pentecost where the Spirit was poured out on all? What about the book of Acts, which records the apostles preaching the Gospel and Gentiles, former Pharisees and magicians believe and receive the Holy Spirit? That clearly shows that the Spirit was not just given to the apostles.

If the Holy Spirit wasn't given to anyone today, no one could believe, since it is the Spirit who draws us to Christ. There would be no Bible either, since he inspired it to be written.

There is no verse that says God speaks directly to people today much less can people prove their claims that God speaks to them. The Bible says God speaks to us though His Son, Hebrews 1:2, not directly. The Son speaks to us through His word.

John 14:16 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Again, contexually Jesus is speaking only to His Apostles here not to anyone today. The Apostles were inspired men, inspired in what they taught and wrote, Ephesians 3:4. There are no inspired Bible writers today. The Comforter would bring to the Apostles "all remembrance" of what Jesus said to them whereby they could relay a complete message ("all truth" John 16:13) to us not an incomplete one. Such a promise was never made to anyone today for people today must read, study God's word (Acts of the Apostles 17:11) to know about God and His plan for saving man. Men today have been instructed "not to go beyond the things which are written" 1 Corinthians 4:6. Men today who go beyond what is written are in going against the Bible and claiming things that are uninspired, unprovable. Such claimed direct revelations allows them to make all kinds of wild claims with no way for them to prove these claims.

Again, people that make such claims continue to contradict the Bible and each other in the claims as to what God supposedly said to them causing division (1 Corinthians 1:10). The claim itself that God speaks directly to men contradicts the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 scriptures furnishes, equips man with all he needs therefore there is no need for extra information spoken directly from God. Jude prophetically wrote "...ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints". Therefore "the faith" has once and for all been delivered so no need for continual direct revelations piece by piece, here's some, there's some.

Hence God, the Holy Spirit speaks today through the word...Hebrews 3:7 "the Holy Spirit saith" the verb 'saith' is present tense, meaning the Holy Spirit is speaking right now and continues to speak to men thru His word. Jesus, the Son, is speaking to us right now today thru His word, Hebrews 1:2. The Christian is armed with the sword of God which is the word of God, Ephesians 6:17 and the Christian does battle with this written word not with unprovable, wild claims.
 
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topher694

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There is no verse that says God speaks directly to people today much less can people prove their claims that God speaks to them. The Bible says God speaks to us though His Son, Hebrews 1:2, not directly. The Son speaks to us through His word.

John 14:16 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Again, contexually Jesus is speaking only to His Apostles here not to anyone today. The Apostles were inspired men, inspired in what they taught and wrote, Ephesians 3:4. There are no inspired Bible writers today. The Comforter would bring to the Apostles "all remembrance" of what Jesus said to them whereby they could rely a complete message ("all truth" John 16:13) to us not an incomplete one. Such a promise was never made to anyone today for people today must read, study God's word (Acts of the Apostles 17:11) to know about God and His plan for saving man. Men today have been instructed "not to go beyond the things which are written" 1 Corinthians 4:6. Men today who go beyond what is written are in going against the Bible and claiming things that are uninspired, unprovable. Such claimed direct revelations allows them to make all kinds of wild claims with no way for them to prove these claims.

Again, people that make such claims continue to contradict the Bible and each other in the claims as to what God supposedly said to them causing division (1 Corinthians 1:10). The claim itself that God speaks directly to men contradicts the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 scriptures furnishes, equips man with all he needs therefore there is no need for extra information spoken directly from God. Jude prophetically wrote "...ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints". Therefore "the faith" has once and for all been delivered so no need for continual direct revelations piece by piece, here's some, there's some.

Hence God, the Holy Spirit speaks today through the word...Hebrews 3:7 "the Holy Spirit sayeth" the verb 'sayeth' is present tense, meaning the Holy Spirit is speaking right now and continues to speak to men thru His word. Jesus, the Son, is speaking to us right now today thru His word, Hebrews 1:2. The Christian is armed with the sword of God which is the word of God, Ephesians 6:17 and the Christian does battle with this written word not with unprovable, wild claims.
I can prove it. I guess that means you are wrong. Oh shoot, I guess now we all have to start accepting the fact that God actually talks to His children that He loves... weird.
 
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Butterball1

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I can prove it. I guess that means you are wrong. Oh shoot, I guess now we all have to start accepting the fact that God actually talks to His children that He loves... weird.
Then provide the proof.

Have you ever played a game with someone who keeps changing the rules? No way to win. I can show from the Bible that God said 'x' but these people who claim God speaks to them says God told them 'y'. This supposed direct communication from God gives them a way to rewrite the Bible, change the rules so to speak, to make things fit their preconceived ideas.
 
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topher694

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Then provide the proof.
Here is one example of many. Not long ago I prophesied to a young man (you see that's one way God speaks to His kids). He had come in late after worship had started. I prophesied about his job and a future business idea. What I could have known was that young man had walked in with a notebook that he had written a business plan on that he was planning on asking me about after service. The prophetic word that I release (ie what God spoke to me) described, in detail, everything in that notebook, even the name of the business. There is zero way I could have known this without God speaking to me. I could give dozens of examples like this.
 
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Butterball1

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Here is one example of many. Not long ago I prophesied to a young man (you see that's one way God speaks to His kids). He had come in late after worship had started. I prophesied about his job and a future business idea. What I could have known was that young man had walked in with a notebook that he had written a business plan on that he was planning on asking me about after service. The prophetic word that I release (ie what God spoke to me) described, in detail, everything in that notebook, even the name of the business. There is zero way I could have known this without God speaking to me. I could give dozens of examples like this.
You are just relating a story you claim happened with no demonstrable proof. Furthermore the Bible teaches miracles as prophecying has ceased, so more contradictions.
 
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topher694

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You are just relating a story you claim happened with no demonstrable proof. Furthermore the Bible teaches miracles as prophecying has ceased, so more contradictions.
I was proof to him. That makes it proof. All you have going for you is the necessity to dismiss, diminish and demonize absolutely anyone and everyone that has a supernatural encounter with God like this, no matter how positive and uplifting it is. You literally have to discredit believers to be right. How sad is that? It sure doesn't sound like Jesus to me. In fact is is contrary to a whole bunch of scripture. So you keep doing you and putting people down, and I'll do me and keep lifting them up and glorifying God.
 
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topher694

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Have you ever played a game with someone who keeps changing the rules? No way to win. I can show from the Bible that God said 'x' but these people who claim God speaks to them says God told them 'y'. This supposed direct communication from God gives them a way to rewrite the Bible, change the rules so to speak, to make things fit their preconceived ideas.
Editing after reading my response... classy.

This just proves your willful ignorance on the subject. The number one rule of the prophetic or ANY for of God speaking to us is that it does not contradict the Bible or change the rules. If there is any chance it does it is dismissed and thrown out. God saying "I love you" to one of His kids does not rewrite the Bible. And there is plenty more He can say without doing so.
 
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Strong in Him

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There is no verse that says God speaks directly to people today

There doesn't need to be a verse.
God has always spoken to those he created, his followers, his children - and even to people who didn't know him, see Samuel's calling. There is no reason to believe that that cannot continue while God's children are serving him and waiting for him to return.
There is no verse to say that God will stop speaking to his children and followers.

The Bible says God speaks to us though His Son, Hebrews 1:2, not directly.

Well he's breaking his own word then - because he speaks to us directly.

The Bible, his word, is great, it is how we hear from God and learn about him, how we learn about his love, salvation etc etc, but it doesn't tell us everything.
How are we to know, from the Bible, whether God wants us to be a teacher, or to be a nurse? A bank manager or an accountant? To live in London or Birmingham? America or the UK? To go to this evangelical church which will allow us to take part in great worship, or that, more traditional church which provides solid teaching?
How do you make decisions about your day to day life from the Bible only? Don't you believe God speaks to you in prayer?

John 14:16 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

Again, contexually Jesus is speaking only to His Apostles here not to anyone today.

So the Holy Spirit was only for the Apostles? God doesn't guide any other Christian at all?
Without the Spirit we wouldn't be born again, could not be saved and wouldn't be on this forum discussing these things.

The Apostles were inspired men, inspired in what they taught and wrote, Ephesians 3:4.

Of course - they were inspired to write the Gospels and NT letters so that believers who came after them would know about God and how he loves, saves, relates and speaks to his people.

There are no inspired Bible writers today.

That's because the Bible can't be added to.
If God ever told us to open the canon of Scripture and add extra books, he would provide the people to write those books.

Men today have been instructed "not to go beyond the things which are written" 1 Corinthians 4:6.

Regarding doctrine, yes.
But again, the Bible does not tell us everything that we want/need to know about living for God now. How do you think that people can testify about being called into the Ministry, or missionary work, Bible translation or whatever - unless it's by hearing from God?

Men today who go beyond what is written are in going against the Bible and claiming things that are uninspired, unprovable.

Only with regards to doctrine.

You cannot find verses in the Bible that allow the use of computers, or teach that churches should have Sunday schools, or illustrate teaching using power point, puppets, Godly Play, Lego or anything else like that - but hundreds do.
There are no verses in the Bible which say that communion/the Lord's supper has to be presided over by ordained clergy - yet it is, and thousands would say that unless it it, it's not "valid".
There are no verses in the Bible which say that we should use certain translations of the Bible, or prayer books or allow drums and guitars in church etc etc - but these things aren't wrong.

The claim itself that God speaks directly to men contradicts the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

If that were the case, God wouldn't have spoken to anyone since St John died.

scriptures furnishes, equips man with all he needs therefore there is no need for extra information spoken directly from God.

If you follow only Scripture, presumably you live in Israel, wear robes and sandals, speak Greek/Aramaic and follow exactly the lifestyle of the Apostles?
Like I said, what about your personal life - living for God in the 22nd century? Isn't there anything you need him to tell/show you?
Or do you live your life without seeking his will, as you believe he can't speak to you?
 
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Butterball1

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I was proof to him. That makes it proof. All you have going for you is the necessity to dismiss, diminish and demonize absolutely anyone and everyone that has a supernatural encounter with God like this, no matter how positive and uplifting it is. You literally have to discredit believers to be right. How sad is that? It sure doesn't sound like Jesus to me. In fact is is contrary to a whole bunch of scripture. So you keep doing you and putting people down, and I'll do me and keep lifting them up and glorifying God.
You are not providing any demonstrable proof, just relating a story about something you claimed happen. There are no prophets today. Please do not get upset at me because I am not gullible to swallow everything people post on religious forums. Where were these so called prophets on Dec 6, 1941 or Sept 10, 2001?
 
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Butterball1

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Editing after reading my response... classy.

This just proves your willful ignorance on the subject. The number one rule of the prophetic or ANY for of God speaking to us is that it does not contradict the Bible or change the rules. If there is any chance it does it is dismissed and thrown out. God saying "I love you" to one of His kids does not rewrite the Bible. And there is plenty more He can say without doing so.

I wonder how many people just on this forum alone claim God directly speaks to them or that the Holy Spirit "illuminates" their understanding yet they contradict each other and the Bible all the time.
 
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Butterball1

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There doesn't need to be a verse.
I posted earlier "There is no verse that says God speaks directly to people today."

To which you responded above "There doesn't need to be a verse" and your whole argument dies here.

Earlier I posted about playing a game with someone who changes the rules as we go along. To which you replied "This just proves your willful ignorance on the subject. " Yet you just admitted above you do not need any "rules" to go by, you don't need a verse to go by for you will make up the rules for yourself and get angry at those whom you cannot pull the wool over their eyes.

Your argument is dead and you killed it.
 
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Strong in Him

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I posted earlier "There is no verse that says God speaks directly to people today."

To which you responded above "There doesn't need to be a verse" and your whole argument dies here.

I said that God has God has always spoken to his people and there is nothing to say that he has stopped. If there was a verse in the Bible that says "in X number of years I will stop speaking to people", that would be a prophecy. But there isn't.
I also said it is a fact that not everything we do is in the Bible.
There is no Bible verse which says that we can use computers to communicate - some have said that the internet, www = 666.
There are no Bible verses which show us which job to take, where in the country, or world, to live.
There are probably no Bible verses for some of the things that you do in your life - so either you have a very limited life or you are conveniently disregarding your own statement.

Earlier I posted about playing a game with someone who changes the rules as we go along. To which you replied "This just proves your willful ignorance on the subject. "

No, that was someone else.

Yet you just admitted above you do not need any "rules" to go by,

I didn't say that at all - sorry, but either you haven't read my post or haven't understood it.

I said, and I repeat, there are not Bible verses for everything that we want to do in our lives; watch tv, use a computer, use AV in church. There are no Bible verses that tell us where to live, who or whether to marry, how many kids to have, if any, where to send them to school etc etc.

When it comes to Christian doctrine and teaching us about God, yes, it needs to be in Scripture.
So when "Rev" Moon tried to tell people "I had a vision of Jesus and he told me that I was the 2nd Messiah and would do the work that Jesus had failed to do", we can say with confidence that that is unscriptural and we shouldn't believe it. Jesus knew exactly what he had come to do and on the cross he said "it is finished".
We don't believe what Moon claimed that God told him because the message didn't line up with Scripture.

But God DOES speak to people today - just as he always has done. If a person says "God told me to take this job", there is no Scripture that can show or disprove that.

Your argument is dead and you killed it.

By claiming that I said something that I didn't, you've sort of killed your own argument.
 
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topher694

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I wonder how many people just on this forum alone claim God directly speaks to them or that the Holy Spirit "illuminates" their understanding yet they contradict each other and the Bible all the time.
You don't claim to hear God's voice, yet you contradict the Bible all the time, so maybe speaking to God isn't the common factor?
 
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topher694

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You are not providing any demonstrable proof, just relating a story about something you claimed happen. There are no prophets today. Please do not get upset at me because I am not gullible to swallow everything people post on religious forums. Where were these so called prophets on Dec 6, 1941 or Sept 10, 2001?
Logical fallacy
 
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Do you believe them?

Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV


John 14:26 KJV


Is the concept of followers of Christ hearing audibly(or in our head) from God the Father supported by scripture?[/QUOT

Only if it is something God has already told us in the Bible.
God would never tell us anything that is extra biblical, yes He can speak via His word to us or the Holy Spirit will bring to mind scripture that pertains to us.
But as for God giving people new messages: no.
 
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You are so far off I hardly know where to begin.
Hebrews 1:1-2 shows a clear distinction in how God communicated with those under the OT law to how He communicates with us today. Under the OT law God communicated through angels, prophets, dreams, visions or spoke directly. Today God commuicates to us through His son Jesus Christ.
Baloney. Heb 1:1-2 merely adds Jesus Christ to the historic list of prophets speaking to us - it doesn't spell the cessation of prophecy or God's voice. That's called eisegesis.


Certain men were selected by God and endowed to miraculously receive revelatory, inspired "words" (1 Corinthians 2:13) from the Holy Spirit and write those inspired words down where we today can read and understand those written down words
Which inscripturated words were NOT solid food! See 1 Cor 3:1-2, and Heb 5:11-14, and (1Pet 2:2). Chrysostom remarked that not even “Scripture hath anywhere discoursed to us of these things" (Chrysostom, NPNF, Part 1, Vol 12, Homily 34).

Since Christ speaks to us today by His written word, He says the exact same thing to all men. I have seen those who claim direct communication from God not only contradict each other, but contradict God's written word...yet God does not contradict Himself.
And? Is there a point here? Your logic seems to be this:
(1) People who prophesy are often wrong.
(2) Therefore prophecy is illegitimate.

That sword cuts both ways, visualize:
(1) Exegetes are often wrong.
(2) Therefore exegesis is illegitimate.

As a matter of fact, Scripture sanctions Direct Revelation, often designated as prophecy (1Cor 14:1) - rather than exegesis - as the only legitimate epistemology.

"Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged" (1 Cor 14).

That same word "revelation" is used in similar passages, notably Mat 11:25 where The PROPHET Jesus, in typical fashion, looks to "revelation" for His superior knowledge of the Scriptures contra the myriad errors of the exegetes/ scholars - the Sola Scriptura parties of His day consisting of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Teachers of the law.

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned [i.e. the Bible scholars], and revealed them to little children."


Paul himself walked in the erroneous Sola Scriptura mentality until he experienced a Direct Revelation on the Road to Damascus. That was a paradigm shift - for the rest of his life, Direct Revelation became his principal authority. You and Paul got saved (and remain saved) the same way - by an ongoing Direct Revelation known among evangelical scholars as the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit (Calvin's term).

You MET Christ via a revelation - even if the Light, vision, and voice were more dull for you than for Paul (dullness of revelation is actually due to a lack of revival). Therefore MORE revelation is the only way to know Him better. Hence Paul prayed:

"17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him.18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints."

If that word "enlightened" didn't clue you in on the need for illumination, perhaps this passage will:

"For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”b made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2Cor 4):

Hence Paul prayed:

"For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding" (Col 1).


Our thoughts have a sonic quality. You can prove this to yourself by mentally singing any words to your favorite tune. As a result, any influence of God upon our minds counts as His voice. Our thoughts are also visual (we comprehend words by visualizing their meanings), hence His influence ALSO counts as visions, for example:

"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate a the Lord’s glory...." (2cor 3:18).

Going back to what you said:

I have seen those who claim direct communication from God not only contradict each other, but contradict God's written word..
All you've done is underscore the fact that the church has mostly prophesied in presumption throughout history. Indeed the church still hasn't cogently defined how to authenticate a voice. That's where I step in, on numerous threads such as this one:
Is Sola Scriptura Guilty of Logical Inconsistency? | Christian Forums
 
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Butterball1

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I said that God has God has always spoken to his people and there is nothing to say that he has stopped. If there was a verse in the Bible that says "in X number of years I will stop speaking to people", that would be a prophecy. But there isn't.
I also said it is a fact that not everything we do is in the Bible.
There is no Bible verse which says that we can use computers to communicate - some have said that the internet, www = 666.
There are no Bible verses which show us which job to take, where in the country, or world, to live.
There are probably no Bible verses for some of the things that you do in your life - so either you have a very limited life or you are conveniently disregarding your own statement.



No, that was someone else.



I didn't say that at all - sorry, but either you haven't read my post or haven't understood it.

I said, and I repeat, there are not Bible verses for everything that we want to do in our lives; watch tv, use a computer, use AV in church. There are no Bible verses that tell us where to live, who or whether to marry, how many kids to have, if any, where to send them to school etc etc.

When it comes to Christian doctrine and teaching us about God, yes, it needs to be in Scripture.
So when "Rev" Moon tried to tell people "I had a vision of Jesus and he told me that I was the 2nd Messiah and would do the work that Jesus had failed to do", we can say with confidence that that is unscriptural and we shouldn't believe it. Jesus knew exactly what he had come to do and on the cross he said "it is finished".
We don't believe what Moon claimed that God told him because the message didn't line up with Scripture.

But God DOES speak to people today - just as he always has done. If a person says "God told me to take this job", there is no Scripture that can show or disprove that.



By claiming that I said something that I didn't, you've sort of killed your own argument.
You have not yet shown the verse that says God still speaks directly to men today. Just claiming He does is no proof at all.
 
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Butterball1

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You are so far off I hardly know where to begin.
Baloney. Heb 1:1-2 merely adds Jesus Christ to the historic list of prophets speaking to us - it doesn't spell the cessation of prophecy or God's voice. That's called eisegesis.


Which inscripturated words were NOT solid food! See 1 Cor 3:1-2, and Heb 5:11-14, and (1Pet 2:2). Chrysostom remarked that not even “Scripture hath anywhere discoursed to us of these things" (Chrysostom, NPNF, Part 1, Vol 12, Homily 34).

And? Is there a point here? Your logic seems to be this:
(1) People who prophesy are often wrong.
(2) Therefore prophecy is illegitimate.

That sword cuts both ways, visualize:
(1) Exegetes are often wrong.
(2) Therefore exegesis is illegitimate.

As a matter of fact, Scripture sanctions Direct Revelation, often designated as prophecy (1Cor 14:1) - rather than exegesis - as the only legitimate epistemology.

"Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged" (1 Cor 14).

That same word "revelation" is used in similar passages, notably Mat 11:25 where The PROPHET Jesus, in typical fashion, looks to "revelation" for His superior knowledge of the Scriptures contra the myriad errors of the exegetes/ scholars - the Sola Scriptura parties of His day consisting of the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Teachers of the law.

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned [i.e. the Bible scholars], and revealed them to little children."


Paul himself walked in the erroneous Sola Scriptura mentality until he experienced a Direct Revelation on the Road to Damascus. That was a paradigm shift - for the rest of his life, Direct Revelation became his principal authority. You and Paul got saved (and remain saved) the same way - by an ongoing Direct Revelation known among evangelical scholars as the Inward Witness of the Holy Spirit (Calvin's term).

You MET Christ via a revelation - even if the Light, vision, and voice were more dull for you than for Paul (dullness of revelation is actually due to a lack of revival). Therefore MORE revelation is the only way to know Him better. Hence Paul prayed:

"17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him.18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints."

If that word "enlightened" didn't clue you in on the need for illumination, perhaps this passage will:

"For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”b made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2Cor 4):

Hence Paul prayed:

"For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding" (Col 1).


Our thoughts have a sonic quality. You can prove this to yourself by mentally singing any words to your favorite tune. As a result, any influence of God upon our minds counts as His voice. Our thoughts are also visual (we comprehend words by visualizing their meanings), hence His influence ALSO counts as visions, for example:

"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate a the Lord’s glory...." (2cor 3:18).

Going back to what you said:

All you've done is underscore the fact that the church has mostly prophesied in presumption throughout history. Indeed the church still hasn't cogently defined how to authenticate a voice. That's where I step in, on numerous threads such as this one:
Is Sola Scriptura Guilty of Logical Inconsistency? | Christian Forums
Hebrews 1:1-2 is proof God does not speak to men today as He did back in OT times either directly and in dreams, etc. God speaks to us today through His Son Jesus Christ Who speaks to us today through His written word. You did not prove otherwise but just gave your subjective opnion on the subject.

The Bible shows miracles were for a certain purpose and time that being, miraclous were used to bring about the word of God, condirmation of that word and when that was completed then by the end of the first century, then the miracles ceased having fulfilled their purpose, 1 Corinthians 13; Ephesians 4.

Therefore if one wants to believe in miracles they can believe the ones written down in the Bible....
"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name
." John wrote various miracles down so that we today can read and believe in them. The phrase "are written" is perfect tense denoting an act done in the past that has an abiding effect. Those signs that induced a belief in people back in the first century, John wrote them down whereby they have an adiding effect in inducing belief in people today who read them. Just another reason there are no miracles today. To claim the need for miracles today undermines the whole reason of John writing the miracles down performed by Christ.

Hence those who claim to perform miracles today (as prophecying) have no Biblical basis to their claim, have no objective proof behind their claims...they have nothing but unprovable, unsubstatiated claims.
 
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