Noah's Flood

1an

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In none of those does Jesus say that Noah is a real person, and not a parable like other people He told us about.

So do you actually have something wherein Jesus said that Noah was an actual person and not part of a parable?



You gave me some other guy who thinks so. But unfortunately, he couldn't find any verse that says what you want it to say, either.



So he equates the two, but the Bible does not. You're still missing a statement from Jesus.

Since Jesus didn't say whether Noah was an actual person or part of a parable, I don't see how He could have been misled.



Sorry, He said the Good Samaritan lived, too. So you're back to parable, again.
The Bible gives us the generation of Noah.
.
 
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The Barbarian

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The Bible gives us the generation of Noah.

Ah, perhaps you can show us where Jesus said that Noah was a real person, not a parable.

I think he was a real person, and there was a real flood (albeit not world-wide flood; the Bible does not say it was world-wide) but it is possible that the story is an allegory.
 
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1an

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Ah, perhaps you can show us where Jesus said that Noah was a real person, not a parable.

I think he was a real person, and there was a real flood (albeit not world-wide flood; the Bible does not say it was world-wide) but it is possible that the story is an allegory.
I hope this helps
NOAH
4892 B.C.Adam & Eve (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/Sam Genesis 5:3)
4762 B.C. Seth born (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/Sam Genesis 5:6) .
4657 B.C. Enosh born (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/Sam Genesis 5:9) .
4567 B.C. Cainan (alt. Kenan) born (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/Sam Genesis 5:12) .
4497 B.C. Mahalalel born (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/Sam Genesis 5:15) .
4432 B.C. Jared born (D:Heb/70)(B:Heb/70 Genesis 5:18) .
4270 B.C. Enoch born (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/Sam Genesis 5:21) .
4205 B.C. Methuselah born (D:Heb/70)(B:Heb/70 Genesis 5:25) .
4018 B.C. Lamech born (D:Heb)(B:Heb Genesis 5:28) .
3962 B.C. Adam dies. (Genesis 5:4) .
3905 B.C. Enoch is taken by God. (Genesis 5:22-23) .
3836 B.C. Noah born (D:Heb/70)(B:Heb/70/Sam Genesis 5:32) .
3334 B.C. Shem born (D:Heb/70/Sam)(B:Heb/70/Sam Genesis 5:10) .
3236 B.C. Methuselah dies (Genesis 5:26-27). Worldwide Flood begins (Genesis 7:6, 11). .
3235 B.C. Flood Ends. (Genesis 8:13-14) Post-Flood
3234 B.C. Arphaxad born (D:Heb/Sam) (B:70/Sam Genesis 11:12) .
3099 B.C. Cainan born (D:70)(B:70 Genesis 11:13 Septuagint only) - Luke 3:36 2
2969 B.C. Salah (alt. Shelah) born (D:Heb/Sam)(B:70/Sam Genesis 11:14) .
2888 B.C. Noah dies. (Genesis 9:28-29) .
2839 B.C. Eber born (D:70/Sam)(B:70/Sam Genesis 11:16) .
2734 B.C. Shem dies. (Genesis 11:11) .
2705 B.C. Peleg born (D:Heb/Sam)(B:70/Sam Genesis 11:18) Tower of Babel (Genesis 10:25)
2667-2648 B.C. (alt. 2628-2609 B.C.) Egypt - Reign of Djoser (Zoser), 3rd Dynasty. First stone pyramid: Step Pyramid at Saqqara.

NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES
Jesus said

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:36-39 KJV)

Further references to Noah

Heb_11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

1Pe_3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

2Pe_2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

NOAH
— rest, (Heb. Noah) the grandson of Methuselah (Genesis 5:25-29), who was for two hundred and fifty years contemporary with Adam, and the son of Lamech, who was about fifty years old at the time of Adam's death. This patriarch is rightly regarded as the connecting link between the old and the new world. He is the second great progenitor of the human family.

The words of his father Lamech at his birth (Genesis 5:29) have been regarded as in a sense prophetical, designating Noah as a type of Him who is the true "rest and comfort" of men under the burden of life (Matt.11:28).

He lived five hundred years, and then there were born unto him three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth (Genesis 5:32). He was a "just man and perfect in his generation," and "walked with God" (comp. Ezekiel 14:14,20). But now the descendants of Cain and of Seth began to intermarry, and then there sprang up a race distinguished for their ungodliness. Men became more and more corrupt, and God determined to sweep the earth of its wicked population (Genesis 6:7). But with Noah God entered into a covenant, with a promise of deliverance from the threatened deluge (18). He was accordingly commanded to build an ark (6:14-16) for the saving of himself and his house. An interval of one hundred and twenty years elapsed while the ark was being built (6:3), during which Noah bore constant testimony against the unbelief and wickedness of that generation (1 Peter 3:18-20; 2 Peter 2:5).

When the ark of "gopher-wood" (mentioned only here) was at length completed according to the command of the Lord, the living creatures that were to be preserved entered into it; and then Noah and his wife and sons and daughters-in-law entered it, and the "Lord shut him in" (Gen.7:16). The judgment-threatened now fell on the guilty world, "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2 Peter 3:6). The ark floated on the waters for one hundred and fifty days, and then rested on the mountains of Ararat (Genesis 8:3,4); but not for a considerable time after this was divine permission given him to leave the ark, so that he and his family were a whole year shut up within it (Genesis 6-14).

On leaving the ark Noah's first act was to erect an altar, the first of which there is any mention, and offer the sacrifices of adoring thanks and praise to God, who entered into a covenant with him, the first covenant between God and man, granting him possession of the earth by a new and special charter, which remains in force to the present time (Genesis 8:21-9:17). As a sign and witness of this covenant, the rainbow was adopted and set apart by God, as a sure pledge that never again would the earth be destroyed by a flood.

But, alas! Noah after this fell into grievous sin (Genesis 9:21); and the conduct of Ham on this sad occasion led to the memorable prediction regarding his three sons and their descendants. Noah "lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years, and he died" (9:29). (See DELUGE).

Noah, motion, (Heb. No'ah) one of the five daughters of Zelophehad (Num.26:33; 27:1; 36:11; Joshua 17:3).

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


DELUGE
the name given to Noah's flood, the history of which is recorded in Genesis 7 and 8.

It began in the year 2516 BC, and continued twelve lunar months and ten days, or exactly one solar year.

The cause of this judgment was the corruption and violence that filled the earth in the ninth generation from Adam. God in righteous indignation determined to purge the earth of the ungodly race. Amid a world of crime and guilt there was one household that continued faithful and true to God, the household of Noah. "Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations."

At the command of God, Noah made an ark 300 cubits long, 50 broad, and 30 high. He slowly proceeded with this work during a period of one hundred and twenty years (Genesis 6:3). At length the purpose of God began to be carried into effect. The following table exhibits the order of events as they occurred:

In the six hundredth year of his life Noah is commanded by God to enter the ark, taking with him his wife, and his three sons with their wives (Genesis 7:1-10).

The rain begins on the seventeenth day of the second month (Genesis 7:11-17).

The rain ceases, the waters prevail, fifteen cubits upward (Genesis 7:18-24).

The ark grounds on one of the mountains of Ararat on the seventeenth day of the seventh month, or one hundred and fifty days after the Deluge began (Genesis 8:1-4).

Tops of the mountains visible on the first day of the tenth month (Genesis 8:5).

Raven and dove sent out forty days after this (Genesis 8:6-9).

Dove again sent out seven days afterwards; and in the evening she returns with an olive leaf in her mouth (Genesis 8:10,11).

Dove sent out the third time after an interval of other seven days, and returns no more (Genesis 8:12).

The ground becomes dry on the first day of the first month of the new year (Genesis 8:13).

Noah leaves the ark on the twenty-seventh day of the second month (Genesis 8:14-19).

The historical truth of the narrative of the Flood is established by the references made to it by our Lord (Matthew 24:37; comp. Luke 17:26). Peter speaks of it also (1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5). In Isaiah 54:9 the Flood is referred to as "the waters of Noah."

Traditions of the Deluge are found among all the great divisions of the human family; and these traditions, taken as a whole, wonderfully agree with the Biblical narrative, and agree with it in such a way as to lead to the conclusion that the Biblical is the authentic narrative, of which all these traditions are more or less corrupted versions. The most remarkable of these traditions is that recorded on tablets prepared by order of Assur-bani-pal, the king of Assyria. These were, however, copies of older records which belonged to somewhere about 2000 BC, and which formed part of the priestly library at Erech (q.v.), "the ineradicable remembrance of a real and terrible event." (See NOAH; CHALDEA.)

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)
.
 
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Semper-Fi

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Ah, perhaps you can show us where Jesus said
that Noah was a real person, not a parable.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in
parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

So Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables.

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into
the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare
unto us the parable of the tares of the field.....

Chapter 24 does not start out as [the parable of..]

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately,
saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of
your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. ...

Here the disciples came and spoke to Jesus privately
Christ only spoke plainly to the disciples, but all else
he did speak in a PARABLE unto the multitudes.
-

The genealogy of man in the bible is not a parable.

All human beings alive today sprang from the family of Noah.
(Genesis 7:23).
Noah - Wikipedia

that Noah begat Shem, Ham and Japheth
Generations of Noah - Wikipedia


Genesis 10:32: "These are the families of the sons of Noah,
after their generations, in their nations; and OF THESE
were the nations divided in the earth after the flood."

If Noah is a parable , what about Jesus line of decedents.
And Noah's 16 grand kids became nations, many traceable.

HEBREWS 11
I think he was a real person, and there was a real flood (albeit not world-wide flood; the Bible does not say it was world-wide) but it is possible that the story is an allegory.

The water covered ever hill under heaven,
all with the breath of life died.
 
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Semper-Fi

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If you take all of it literally, it says the sky is a solid dome over the earth,
with windows in it through which rain falls.

Gods way of describing the earths atmosphere He made for us.
This is how we can breath air, and the wonderful water properties.
 
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1an

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Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in
parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

So Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables.

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into
the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare
unto us the parable of the tares of the field.....

Chapter 24 does not start out as [the parable of..]

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately,
saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of
your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. ...

Here the disciples came and spoke to Jesus privately
Christ only spoke plainly to the disciples, but all else
he did speak in a PARABLE unto the multitudes.
-

The genealogy of man in the bible is not a parable.

All human beings alive today sprang from the family of Noah.
(Genesis 7:23).
Noah - Wikipedia

that Noah begat Shem, Ham and Japheth
Generations of Noah - Wikipedia


Genesis 10:32: "These are the families of the sons of Noah,
after their generations, in their nations; and OF THESE
were the nations divided in the earth after the flood."

If Noah is a parable , what about Jesus line of decedents.
And Noah's 16 grand kids became nations, many traceable.

HEBREWS 11


The water covered ever hill under heaven,
all with the breath of life died.

All the earth was their way of saying all of Israel. Locust covered the whole earth, means the whole earth of Israel and not the whole world. Noah never collected polar bears, crocodile, kangaroos etc.
.
 
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Semper-Fi

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1an

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The Barbarian

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Gods way of describing the earths atmosphere He made for us.

It's man's attempt to understand the world. God didn't describe the world in detail, so men filled in the parts He didn't tell us as best they could. Hence the figurative language, not literally true. The sky isn't really a dome over a flat earth, and there aren't windows up there for rain to fall through.

The atmosphere, the Hebrews thought, was something below the dome.
 
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The Barbarian

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Ah, perhaps you can show us where Jesus said
that Noah was a real person, not a parable.

(no such verse offered)

O.K. If you do find one, let us know. Or alternately, you might be able to show that if Jesus mentions allegorical things in scripture,that converts them to literal history. What do you have?

I tend to agree with you that Noah was an actual person, but as you now see, it's impossible to prove that, given the figurative nature of much of Genesis.
 
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The Barbarian

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It's Official: Radioactive Isotope Dating Is Fallible

Well, let's take a look at that belief:

In Lake Suigetsu in Japan, varves have been forming for tens of thousands of years. We know this because lake varves form two layers a year, one light one and one dark one. So the organic material in these varves can be tested for Carbon-14, thus calibrating the actual decay with time. Here's the calibration curve:

varve-suigetsu-1984-c14.jpg

Since C-14 production in the atmosphere changes over time by a small amount due to fluctuations in cosmic rays, this allows a more precise check on the accuracy of the method. Notice the very tiny deviations in a system with known variability.

It has long been known that small changes in radioactive decay can happen under circumstances not normally seen on the Earth. And there are claims that radioactive decay can chance with other factors, but as the links you provided show, if they do exist, they are so tiny as to be difficult to separate from measuring errors.

As a result, it offers no comfort to YE believers. Even a 1% change in Uranium/thorium rates, which has not been observed, would mean the Earth might be 4.455 billion years old, rather than 4.5 billion years old.

To fit YE doctrines, the change would have to be about 750,000 times faster. But if that happened, the huge increase in ionizing radiation would have fried all living things on Earth.

There's just no way to fit any of it into a YE belief system.
 
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Childofgodharrison

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If you take all of it literally, it says the sky is a solid dome over the earth, with windows in it through which rain falls.



He spoke of Noah as He spoke of people in His parables. Where does Jesus say Noah was a literal person?
Do you believe the bible?
 
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The Barbarian

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Do you believe the bible?

You might want to go back and read some of my posts here. I've pointed out to a number of people that even when the Bible uses figurative language, it's still true.

Do you believe the Bible?
 
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1an

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Ah, perhaps you can show us where Jesus said
that Noah was a real person, not a parable.

(no such verse offered)

O.K. If you do find one, let us know. Or alternately, you might be able to show that if Jesus mentions allegorical things in scripture,that converts them to literal history. What do you have?

I tend to agree with you that Noah was an actual person, but as you now see, it's impossible to prove that, given the figurative nature of much of Genesis.
See Matthew 24:36-39.
.
 
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Job 33:6

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It's Official: Radioactive Isotope Dating Is Fallible

Radiometric Dating
Radiometric Dating | The Institute for Creation Research

Fluctuations Show Radioisotope Decay Is Unreliable
Fluctuations Show Radioisotope Decay Is Unreliable

More Fluctuations Found in Isotopic Clocks
More Fluctuations Found in Isotopic Clocks

The institute of creation research doesn't really produce quality research.

Every analytical method of anything is fallible. I can measure the quantity of benzene in a jar of water and come up with a number. But if my jar of water is next to the tail pipe of a running pickup truck, then my analysis can be wrong.

The difference between groups like the institute of creation research, and academic or scientific bodies, like researchers such as...those of oxford or Harvard, or even smaller state universities, is that actual scientific bodies examine quality of research. Whereas the creation institute forgoes investigation of a lot of the particular details that matter in determining what is true or not.

So is radioactive dating a method that people can perform improperly? Absolutely. But the question really should be, what methods were conducted to confirm quality of analysis.
 
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East of Eden

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And it is composed in part, of marine salt deposits:

The Mesozoic marine salt became buried by thick sediments in the coastal plain area. The salt began to form ridges and domes in the Houston and Rio Grande areas. The heavy load of sand, silt, and mud deposited by the deltas eventually caused some areas of the coast to subside and form large fault systems, essentially parallel to the coast.
marine deposits under rio grande river at DuckDuckGo

The Mesozoic Era was about 200,000,000 years ago, supposedly. There were great changes in New Mexico much more recent than that. At White Sands National Park, about 10,000 years ago, well within the Flood time period, things changed from a tropical place with mastodons (footprints still visible) to what it is today, I suspect at the same time the water-deposited sediment was laid down north in the Rio Grande valley. The NPS explains it as a 'lake' at White Sands.

Fossilized Footprints - White Sands National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

"The sands of White Sands National Monument are formed from gypsum, a soft mineral often left behind when water bodies evaporate."

Where did this immense amount of water come from in an area that gets a few inches of rain a year? The Rio Grande in that area often dries up in summer.
 
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