Meaning of "I and the Father our One"

ChristianForCats said:

I have had the same debate about Christianity vs. Jehovah's Witness idenity before on another forum, but decided now there is no reason I should not get to the bottom of it.This lady (username Elvira) attends her Kingdom Hall every week, reads the Bible every day, and says God's laws "are written on my heart." But the following discussion is keeping me frustrated as someone who wants to study evangelism through trial and error. I know I can't change her mind, but really want to get something out of this experience, not just read books and listen to pastors.

This is a copy and paste from my other message board with original formatting. Let me know how I did and if I messed up.

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You are correct; she isn't.

JW's have distorted the message of the Bible to conform to a false belief. If she believes that Jesus and God (and the Holy Spirit) aren't one, comprising the Godhead, why doesn't she just convert to Judaism?

ChristianForCats said:

I started talking to Elvira again. She said Jesus could have risen the same way Lazurus did.

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You can tell Elvira that the Jews who were standing there in person understood Jesus quite clearly as to what he meant because when Jesus asked why they were going to stone him, they replied:

"The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." (John 10:33 ERV)

Her answer if she is the typical indoctrinated cult member is that the Jews were mistaken; but take notice, John corrects the misunderstanding of the Jews when they err, as in:

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. The Jews therefore said, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou raise it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body." (John 2:19-21 ERV)

Also note, Jesus was living and raised Lazarus from being dead after several days; here in John, Jesus said "I will raise it up" which of necessity means he claimed to be Almighty God, Yahweh.

Also, in John 10:31-38 you see a rising importance, first the word of God came to those men of God called "gods", but then the Jews are going to object when God the Son came into the world and claimed unity with the Father as God? It just seems so clear Jesus was the God-Man... Son of Man and Son of God.

ChristianForCats said:

I have had the same debate about Christianity vs. Jehovah's Witness idenity before on another forum, but decided now there is no reason I should not get to the bottom of it.This lady (username Elvira) attends her Kingdom Hall every week, reads the Bible every day, and says God's laws "are written on my heart." But the following discussion is keeping me frustrated as someone who wants to study evangelism through trial and error. I know I can't change her mind, but really want to get something out of this experience, not just read books and listen to pastors.

This is a copy and paste from my other message board with original formatting. Let me know how I did and if I messed up.

Click to expand...

Meaning of ''I an the Father are one''
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one – 23 I in them and you in me – so that they may be brought to complete unity.so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. John17:20-23

How can believers be in Father and Son? Only through the Holy Spirit.
''just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us''
that they may be one AS we are one

How can believers be as one?
Only through the Holy Spirit can believers be as one, of one heart and one mind in the Spirit. In unity of the Spirit
then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind Phil2:2

then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind

That they(the believers) may be one AS(AS) we are one

ChristianForCats said:

I started talking to Elvira again. She said Jesus could have risen the same way Lazurus did.

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"The Bible indicates that all three Persons of the Trinity were involved in Jesus’ resurrection. Galatians 1:1 says that the Father raised Jesus from the dead. First Peter 3:18 says that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead (see also Romans 1:4, and note that Romans 8:11 clearly says that God will resurrect believers “through His Spirit”). And in John 2:19 Jesus predicts that He will raise Himself from the dead (see also John 10:18). So, when we answer the question of who resurrected Jesus, we can say God did. And by that we can mean it was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

Who resurrected Jesus? | GotQuestions.org


JW's quote John 17 and takes the meaning of one from there to read into John 10 --- a common word study fallacy.

In John 10:30 If Jesus were saying we are one in spirit of of the same mindset as the Father. Then the people there would had said, so are we. But, from the context they picked up stones to kill Jesus because he was claiming to be one in nature as God the Father.

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 27 My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 [f]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus replied to them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

Read a text in context and you will often see the answer.

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, everything that he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear the words of the prophecy and keep the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Message to the Seven Churches
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the [d]seven spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— 6 and He made us into a kingdom, priests to [e]His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. [f]So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

In the last post we all know it is Jesus who is to come.

2 Thessalonians 2
New American Standard Bible

Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come

In the NWT verse 2 reads "day of Jehovah" from their Kingdom Interlinear you will see the Greek word for Jehovah is Kurious or something like that. Kurious is used in verse 1, "Lord Jesus Christ".
Since both uses of the word Kurios or Lord is the same. Then it would be correctly translated Jehovah Jesus Christ.
Download the Kingdom Interlinear Translation / Christian Apologetics

Kingdom Interlinear Greek Scriptures : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

ChristianForCats said:

When did Jesus say he can't do anything without the Father? I know he said it, but can't find the chapter.

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God the Father raised Jesus (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37).
God raised Him up again (Rom. 4:24; 6:4 [through the glory of the Father]); 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12).
The Holy Spirit is somehow involved in the resurrection of Jesus:
Romans 8:11 “But if the Spirit of Him who raised…”
Romans 1:4 “who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,…”
The Son Himself lays down His life and takes it up again — John 10:17-18
It seems as though the answer is that all of the Trinity is involved in the Resurrection.

Did God the Father raise God the Son, or did Jesus raise Himself from the dead? | Bible.org

Is this the text you had in mind?
John 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

ChristianForCats said:

When did Jesus say he can't do anything without the Father? I know he said it, but can't find the chapter.

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John 10:32 and other texts here

Did Jesus do miracles by His own power or by the power of the Holy Spirit?
How Did Jesus Perform His Miracles? | The Mission Church | A Christian Church in South Jordan, Utah

johnbunyan said:

Meaning of ''I an the Father are one''
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one – 23 I in them and you in me – so that they may be brought to complete unity.so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. John17:20-23

How can believers be in Father and Son? Only through the Holy Spirit.
''just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us''
that they may be one AS we are one

How can believers be as one?
Only through the Holy Spirit can believers be as one, of one heart and one mind in the Spirit. In unity of the Spirit
then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind Phil2:2

then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind

That they(the believers) may be one AS(AS) we are one

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Friend you are reading the meaning of one from John 17 into John 10 which is a word study fallacy. If Jesus were saying that He is one with the Father in John 10 as the word one is used in John 17 --- they would not try to stone him for making himself God.

Hostile Non-Christian Source indicates the early christians worshiped Jesus as being God.

"Soon accusations spread because of these proceedings, as usually happens, and several incidents occurred. An anonymous document was published containing the names of many persons. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and also cursed Christ – none of which those who are really Christians can, it is said, be forced to do — these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ. They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to do some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food — but ordinary and innocent food."
Pliny’s Letter to Trajan | Christian History Institute

ChristianForCats said:

Because Judaism stops at Numbers. Jews don't believe any part of the New Testament.

What I do not understand is how can someone believe Jesus is the 'Son of God" with a capital S, but never raised from the dead? If Jesus was not God Himself, how could he have been the son of a virgin mom and risen from the grave? I wish a JW would explain that to me because you can't believe the entire Bible and think his death was permanent.

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I like to see how they get around the two god problem? The NWT mistranslates John 1:1c "word was a god"

Omnipresence (which only God possesses): Matthew 18:20, 28:20, John 3:13, Ephesians 1:21

• Omnipotence (which only God possesses): Matthew 28:18, Luke 21:15, John 1:3, 10:18, 1 Corinthians 1:24, Ephesians 1:22, Philippians 3:21, Colossians 2:10, Revelation 1:18

• Immutability or changelessness (which only God possesses): Hebrews 1:11-12, 13:8

• What did Jesus do? Actions which only God can do are attributed in Scripture to Jesus.
  1. Creation: John 1:3, 10, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:10
  2. Upholds and preserves all things: Colossians 1:17, Hebrews 1:3
  3. Forgives sins: Mark 2:5-10, Luke 5:20-24, 7:47-49, Acts 5:31
  4. Gives the Holy Spirit: Luke 24:40, John 16:7, 20:22, Acts 2:33
  5. Gives true peace: John 14:27, 16:33, Romans 15:33, 16:20, 2 Corinthians 13:11, Philippians 4:9, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Hebrews 13:30
  6. Gives light: John 1:4-9, 8:12, 9:5, 12:35, 46, 1 John 1:5-7, Revelation 21:23
  7. Gives eternal life: John 17:2
  8. Confers spiritual gifts: Ephesians 4:8-13
  9. Receives worship: Matthew 14:33, Luke 24:51-52, Acts 1:24, 7:59-60, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:13

• What rights and prerogatives did Jesus have? Powers and privileges belonging solely to Yahweh are claimed by Jesus for Himself.

1. Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath: Mark 2:28
2. Jesus claimed to be the final judge of all human beings: Matthew 7:21-23, 13-41-43, 19:28, 25:31-33, Mark 14:62, Luke 9:26

• Responses to a Jehovah's Witness' questions (page 3)

ChristianForCats said:

That is an outright lie, not a mistranslation. The Word is God - not a god, just God, with a capital G.

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You are correct, purposely mistranslating John 1:1c as "a god" is a lie and as such denies that God came to earth in the flesh.

Since, they do "mistranslate" it, they created a problem of believing in two gods.

Follow the link for Bowman's outline of the trinity it is worth studying.

JEHOVAH IS... JEHOVAH IS JESUS ...JESUS IS
Gen 1:1 CREATOR Jn 1:1–3
Job 33:4 Col 1:12–17
Is 40:28 Heb 1:8–12
Is 41:4 FIRST & LAST Rev 1:17
Is 44:6 Rev 2:8
Is 48:12 Rev 22:13
Ex 3:13–14 I AM Jn 8:24, 58; 13:19
Gen 18:25 JUDGE 2 Tim 4:1
Ps 96:13 2 Cor 5:10
Joel 3:12 Rom 14:10–12
Ps 47:1–9 KING Matt 2:1–6
Is 44:6–8 Jn 19:21
Jer 10:10 1 Tim 6:13–16
Ps 27:1 LIGHT Jn 1:9
Is 60:20 Jn 8:12
Ps 106:21 SAVIOR Acts 4:10–12
Is 43:3, 11 Acts 4:10–12
Is 45:21–23 1 Jn 4:14
Ps 23:1–6 SHEPHERD Jn 10:11
Ps 100:3 Heb 13:20
Is 40:11 1 Pet 5:4
Jesus is Jehovah


Jesus is Jehovah!: Jesus is Jehovah!: Contents

Daniel Marsh said:

I like to see how they get around the two god problem? The NWT mistranslates John 1:1c "word was a god"

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The JWs have created a version of Scripture solely to prove their doctrine. Period.