Does God love all or some?

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

Dave L said:
THE BIBLE SAYS GOD HATES SINNERS, NOT JUST THE SIN:

Leviticus 20:23: “And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nations which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I ABHORRED THEM. ”
Leviticus 26:14-30: “If ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; And if ye shall despise My statutes, or if your soul abhor My judgments, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but that ye break My covenant, I also will do this to you... And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary to Me; Then I WILL WALK CONTRARY TO YOU IN FURY... I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols, and MY SOUL SHALL ABHOR YOU. ”
Deuteronomy 18:12 “For all that do these things are an ABOMINATION TO THE LORD, and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee. ”
Deuteronomy 25:16: “...ALL THAT DO UNRIGHTEOUSLY ARE AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD. ”
Deuteronomy 28:62-63: “Because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God... it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will the Lord will REJOICE OVER YOU TO DESTROY YOU, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. ”
(In Deuteronomy 27, 28, and 29, 124 CURSES are promised upon the Jews who refused to obey God’s commandments.)

Deuteronomy 32:16-20: “They provoked Him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations they provoked Him to ANGER... And when the Lord saw it , HE ABHORRED THEM... ”
Psalm 2:4-9: “The Lord that sits in the heavens shall LAUGH: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall He speak unto them in His WRATH, and VEX THEM IN HIS SORE DISPLEASURE... break them with a rod of iron: Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter ’s vessel. ”
Psalm 5:5-6: “The foolish shall not stand in Thy sight: THOU HATEST ALL WORKERS OF INIQUITY. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (lies): THE LORD WILL ABHOR THE BLOODY AND DECEITFUL MAN.”
Psalm 7:11-13: “...God is ANGRY with the wicked every day. If he turn not, He will whet His sword; He hath bent His bow, and made it ready. He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; He ordaineth His arrows against the persecutors. ”
Psalm 10:3: “For the wicked... blesseth the covetous, WHOM THE LORD ABHORRETH. ”
Psalm 11:5-7: “The Lord trieth the righteous: but THE WICKED AND HIM THAT LOVETH VIOLENCE HIS SOUL HATETH. Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness... ”
Psalm 50:22: “Now consider this, ye that forget God, LEST I TEAR YOU IN PIECES, AND THERE BE NONE TO DELIVER. ”
Psalm 78:59: “When God heard this He was wroth, and GREATLY ABHORRED ISRAEL. ”
Psalm 106:40: “Therefore was the wrath of the Lord kindled against His people, insomuch that HE ABHORRED HIS OWN INHERITANCE. ”

Lots more but this should do.

While we were still sinners, God sent His only Son. So the rest of us observe something changed.

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

Dave L said:
What's your point?

You are not able to see or discern sin in others.

Cormack · Feb 22, 2021

Amos 3:6 has nothing to do with God controlling everything. It’s about temporal judgement against wicked cities, hence the trumpet being blown (well known act of war.) The trumpet sounds and the city trembles.

“Evil” in that verse is better translated calamity, meaning when calamity falls upon a wicked city, is not the Lord it’s executioner.

In short: God punishes wicked nations.

That’s for you, @Hmm. ^^^^ You probably already know these points but I thought it bears sharing, your ears listen and your eyes see.

Dave L · Feb 22, 2021

SkyWriting said:
While we were still sinners, God sent His only Son. So the rest of us observe something changed.

I don't get your point. Can you be more specific?

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

Dave L said:
But, it shows how much God hates sinners (all) and he does not change. Do you want to think you had a special quality that caused God to save you?

I was saved from the beginning of time.

Dave L · Feb 22, 2021

SkyWriting said:
You are not able to see or discern sin in others.

You can judge them by their fruit.

Neogaia777 · Feb 22, 2021

The problem with Universalism is that it is not in line with Bible truth...

Everyone is not saved and goes to heaven, etc...

And this is just a "fact", etc...

But we like what we like, and don't like what we don't like, etc, but that does not make it truth, etc, especially when it is not truth, etc...

Cause the truth is Jesus preached on hell, much, much more than he did an eternal heaven, etc...

It is only because we don't like it, and can't normally reconcile it, that we reject it, etc, but that is also rejecting "the truth" also, etc...

And that is also "blasphemy" also, etc, cause anything that is not what the Bible clearly states is clearly the truth, etc, and goes against that truth, etc, regardless of how we feel about it, etc, is "blasphemy", etc...

And heresy also, etc...

Now, however you reconcile it, or if you can't, then I am very sorry, etc, but please do not try to change or alter the truth just only just because of that and that only, etc, OK...

I have already reconciled it, and tried to tell you all how, etc, but you fail to listen, etc, or maybe even comprehend maybe, etc, and for that I am truly sorry also, but it wasn't for my lack of trying, etc...

But please don't try to change or alter the truth just because of that only, or just because you just simply don't like it only, or just because it doesn't sit right with your own human emotions or frailties or feelings only, or just doesn't sit right with your own, only human, very limited comprehension and/or perspectives or points of view only, etc, cause that is blasphemy, etc, and I won't stand for blasphemy, etc...

Anyway...

The hard things and the hard way(s) are never easy, etc...

Nor should they be, etc...

But that is no reason to reject them outright, etc...

Because doing so is so very, very wrong in my book, etc...

And I think God's as well...

Anyway...

God Bless!

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2021

Cormack said:
Having Gods life today changes the trajectory of lives going forward, so much so I’d rather people felt and enjoyed that comfort and renewing of the mind today like I’ve been doing for years.

Reuniting with God even to the universalist isn’t just about the end game, it’s about the painful journey going there. I’m sure we’d all rather be reunited with an estranged wife or children sooner rather than later.

Right.
Jesus said we would be better off going to the afterlife without the eye or hand that causes us to sin. So, we should all take the consequences in the afterlife seriously. Universalists are NOT promoting a free pass for sinners.

We do not, however, believe in eternal punishment for temporal sin. That's not justice; it's cruelty on the grandest scale.

Cormack · Feb 22, 2021

My guy @Saint Steven

Although I’ve read “Universalism, the prevailing doctrine,” most of post #294 is brand new to me. I’m in for an interesting weeks reading.

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

Dave L said:
We are born wicked. God controls our wickedness in his wrath for sin. Some he has mercy on and pays for their wickedness in Christ he punished in their place on the cross.

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 (KJV 1900)

Each person is born in God's image. But we are born into a sinful condition
just as a fish is born into water. We are all wet, no not one is dry.
But we can understand that being wet is not what we were designed for.

Dave L · Feb 22, 2021

SkyWriting said:
Each person is born in God's image. But we are born into a sinful condition
just as a fish is born into water. We are all wet, no not one is dry.
But we can understand that being wet is not what we were designed for.

It's far worse than that. But you are looking in the right direction.

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

public hermit said:
Do you think we love God by loving others? I read something the other day that said the two are not equivalent. God is not others, and therefore loving others is not equivalent to loving God.

1 John 4:19-21
We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 4:11
Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

True. Not the same thing.

Strong in Him · Feb 22, 2021

Saint Steven said:
I thought you said he succeeded. ???

Christ died to reconcile mankind to God. He has made it possible for ALL to come to God, receive forgiveness, eternal life and every spiritual blessing in Christ.
He does not force anyone to do that - otherwise "love" would be coercive and dismissive of a person's choice.

So if someone says, "I don't want to know, don't care, don't want eternal life", it's not because Christ never died for them, but that they have not received it.

The GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus.
If I gave you a gift and you left it on a table/park bench/at someone's house, or you never opened it because you didn't like the one who was giving it - how would that gift be for you? How would you benefit and enjoy that gift?
I gave my husband a voucher once, for a ride on a steam train (which he enjoys). He didn't use it within the time (16 months), so he missed out and I felt that I had wasted my time and money. What point had there been to that gift?

Neogaia777 · Feb 22, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Right.
Jesus said we would be better off going to the afterlife without the eye or hand that causes us to sin. So, we should all take the consequences in the afterlife seriously. Universalists are NOT promoting a free pass for sinners.

We do not, however, believe in eternal punishment for temporal sin. That's not justice; it's cruelty on the grandest scale.

What if it's not a punishment, but only a judgement, etc...?

But and/or anyway, that being said and/or anyway, Universalists, if they (some of them) if they believe in a hell at all, they believe that people are only disciplined there only, and only for a short temporary time there only, and that, in or by the end, everyone is eventually saved and all goes to heaven, etc, and that it (hell) is not in any way shape or form, "eternal", etc, and I find that absolutely nowhere in scripture at all, etc, and in fact, I find quite the opposite most of the time or most usually, etc...

That's why I say it is blasphemy, etc...

Clearly not Bible truth, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Strong in Him · Feb 22, 2021

Cormack said:
Do universalists appear to say those things or do they actually say those things?

I haven't studied universalism, so if I'd said "universalists teach .....", there is a good chance that I could have been wrong.

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

Dave L said:
You can judge them by their fruit.

It is possible to discern believers by their actions. But if you look at one person, you can't see what the other billions are doing. And you don't have time to see more than a pinhole of the information needed to judge. So your judgment is based on looking through a pinhole camera and seeing just one shadow of truth.

Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Matthew 7:1-2
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.

Titus 3:2-7
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, ...

Strong in Him · Feb 22, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Not "But", And...
Christ died to save everyone, the world, from the penalty of sin. (death)
And people need to believe in him to receive his salvation.

Ok.
People need to receive him to be saved, that was my point; a response is required.

Neogaia777 · Feb 22, 2021

Strong in Him said:
Christ died to reconcile mankind to God. He has made it possible for ALL to come to God, receive forgiveness, eternal life and every spiritual blessing in Christ.
He does not force anyone to do that - otherwise "love" would be coercive and dismissive of a person's choice.

So if someone says, "I don't want to know, don't care, don't want eternal life", it's not because Christ never died for them, but that they have not received it.

The GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus.
If I gave you a gift and you left it on a table/park bench/at someone's house, or you never opened it because you didn't like the one who was giving it - how would that gift be for you? How would you benefit and enjoy that gift?
I gave my husband a voucher once, for a ride on a steam train (which he enjoys). He didn't use it within the time (16 months), so he missed out and I felt that I had wasted my time and money. What point had there been to that gift?

Right, and for those of you who do believe in a "free will", etc, then how can all be saved, if there is a possibility of a person, or a certain group of people, always and continually and outright and always, always rejecting being saved only, etc...?

Cause in there is a flaw in your logic as well, etc...

Free will has to allow for the possibility, and I would even say certainty, of most definitely some not ever being saved ever, etc...

Now I don't subscribe to "true free will", etc, but I still feel like I still know still, that not all are all always saved always, etc, in or by or in the end always, etc...

And again, I have tried to explain that, but none of you care to hear or listen or comprehend, etc...

And maybe you just not able, but, either way...?

Well... Anyway...?

God Bless!

SkyWriting · Feb 22, 2021

Dave L said:
I don't get your point. Can you be more specific?

While we were still sinners, God sent His only Son.

This was an event that changed how we see God.
Jesus died on the cross. Things changed.
Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Gregory Thompson · Feb 22, 2021

Religiot said:
Did you not bother to read what I wrote?

What motivation do you have to display such hatred?

I took the time to answer you, and by the scriptures; yet here you are, plucking a sentence from my statement, out of context, and then falsely accusing me of contradicting the scriptures: why?

Why not do as I did with you, and out of love, took the time out of my day to respond to you by the scriptures, as you requested.

--Not even in a secular court is such contempt permissible; yet here you are, ironically, in a Christian forum, where the topic is directly about Christian love.

The irony alone, should give you pause.

I suggest you actually read what I said before passing judgment.

I've read many of the things that you have wrote, I see no need to read further.

Does God love all or some?

Does God love all or some?

God loves all

God loves some

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Old Soul

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