Does God love all or some?

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
There is still a difference between saved and unsaved, correct?

I would say, more like, saved now and not saved yet.

Hmm · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
I'm not sure your conclusion follows. It was the son of the man, not the mans neighbor.

I don't understand your point but no matter, I don't think this is going anywhere.

Religiot · Feb 21, 2021

Michael Collum said:
1 John 4:20 says that for whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God. (who is unseen)

So a reverse application means God mostly hates himself?

We are made to be like and look like God according to the beginning.

You overlook the key words 'brother' and 'sister'.

I'm to love the workers of iniquity in the same way God does--allowing the build up of wrath, to cover them in fire, to the glory of God.

zoidar · Feb 21, 2021

public hermit said:
Yeah, I'm actually surprised there's not one vote for "some." Maybe that's an indication that the pole questions lack sufficient nuance. Honestly, having watched CF posters for a good bit, I felt confident some would choose "some." Lol. But, nope.

Maybe start a thread with the nuances, but what would be the purpose of that thread?

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
So how would you describe God's love for you? Would you say it is the same as the staunch atheist who repeatedly hardens his heart towards God?

God doesn't just love me, he actually likes me. We hang out every day.

God is love. If he didn't love everyone, he wouldn't be God. (I think I am quoting @public hermit ) Credit where credit is due. - lol

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 21, 2021

Saint Steven said:
I would say, more like, saved now and not saved yet.

So everyone gets saved?

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 21, 2021

Saint Steven said:
There is a case to be made for God saving everyone. Now that's love.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

There's more passages about God saving only some.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

fhansen said:
God can do whatever He wants, of course, including just placing everyone in heaven to begin with if that's the plan anyway. Instead we've been sent here, to a place of education/formation, testing, hopefully refinement and a movement down the road of righteousness rather than not on it at all or away from it. It's ridiculous to think that Christians can't and don't need to be personally righteous now. We must at least be on that road, otherwise shades of Is 5:20 should start dancing in our heads. I'd read 1 John 1 and 3.

Just to be clear, I am not opposed to believers being righteous. I just object to the idea that it is the basis of our salvation. It's not. And we probably agree on that point. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

Religiot · Feb 21, 2021

John Mullally said:
Sola Scriptura please. Jesus did say that "God so loved the World that He gave".

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

2 Corinthians 10;3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

Yes, of course, no problem: the following are some examples of how God feels about those who reject Him--I've excluded the drowning of the entire world, cause I'm assuming you know that one already, and instead focused on His Own words, tho His actions do speak louder--but for your request, here are some citations:

"And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them." --Leviticus 20:23

"The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity." --Psalms 5:5

"Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will abhor the bloody and deceitful man." --Psalms 5:6

"For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the Lord abhorreth." --Psalms 10:3

"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." --Proverbs 6:16-19

"I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baal–peor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved. As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception. Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations." --Hosea 9:10-17

"For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the Lord: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them. And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me. Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another." Zechariah 11:6-9

Either the above is an internal contradiction in scripture, or, a misunderstanding on your part.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
So everyone gets saved?

No.
Everyone is already saved. They just don't know it yet.
Here's how it works.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

public hermit · Feb 21, 2021

zoidar said:
Maybe start a thread with the nuances, but what would be the purpose of that thread?

To be honest, I'm not even sure what the right nuance would be. There was nothing in the OP about the eternal destination of those God loves, or doesn't. Oh well.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
There's more passages about God saving only some.

There is biblical support for all three doctrines of the final judgment. Take your pick.

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 21, 2021

Saint Steven said:
No.
Everyone is already saved. They just don't know it yet.
Here's how it works.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Well, I guess we should tell all the missionaries that they are working in vain. Further, what's really the big deal with driving drunk? If you kill someone when you're driving behind the wheel, they'll go to heaven anyways. You're actually doing them a favor by killing them.

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
There's more passages about God saving only some.

Right.
The one with the most Bible verses wins. - lol

Saint Steven · Feb 21, 2021

True Counterphobia said:
Well, I guess we should tell all the missionaries that they are working in vain. Further, what's really the big deal with driving drunk? If you kill someone when you're driving behind the wheel, they'll go to heaven anyways. You're actually doing them a favor by killing them.

That's NOT what it means. - lol

Jesse Dornfeld · Feb 21, 2021

Saint Steven said:
That's NOT what it means. - lol

Sure, that's not what it means, but it does mean our life here on earth is free of consequences so we can basically do whatever we want and not get in trouble for it.

zoidar · Feb 21, 2021

public hermit said:
To be honest, I'm not even sure what the right nuance would be. There was nothing in the OP about the eternal destination of those God loves, or doesn't. Oh well.

Did you have a specific purpose with this thread? I know I sometimes start a thread without knowing my real purpose.

Religiot · Feb 21, 2021

public hermit said:
Okay, fair enough. Will you do me a favor and vote "some" so the pole will better reflect the opinions on the thread?

I apologize for not casting a vote: the reason for that is due to the dichotomy being false, in that it does not make any distinction between the categories, but assumes that there is only one, namely humans.

God makes a distinction between humans: He categorizes them as either His children or Satan's children.

God loves all of His children, but hates Satan's.

If the question where put in a way that made the distinction, then I would be glad to vote.

Thanks for the post, it's very good, and again, I'm sorry for not participating in the voting.

public hermit · Feb 21, 2021

zoidar said:
Did you have a specific purpose with this thread? I know I sometimes start a thread without knowing my real purpose.

No, just Nygren's argument and what others thought about it. The pole questions were a way to frame the discussion.

public hermit · Feb 21, 2021

Religiot said:
I apologize for not casting a vote: the reason for that is due to the dichotomy being false, in that it does not make any distinction between the categories, but assumes that there is only one, namely humans.

God makes a distinction between humans: He categorizes them as either His children or Satan's children.

God loves all of His children, but hates Satan's.

If the question where put in a way that made the distinction, then I would be glad to vote.

Thanks for the post, it's very good, and again, I'm sorry for not participating in the voting.

That's understandable. I can respect that.

Does God love all or some?

Does God love all or some?

God loves all

God loves some

You can call me Steve

Hey, I'm just this guy, you know

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