Adam and Eve

mmksparbud

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Understanding The Father, Son and Holy Spirit is essential in our Christian walk. Regardless of the label put on it which may lead to confusion for some, the three are One. It is not difficult. One can not go to the Father unless they go through the Son and one cannot not recieve the Holy Spirit unless they go through the Son. Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God in the flesh. All three work as one in relationship to humanity. Be blessed.


That the 3 are one is Truth. But do not even think you are capable of understanding how that is accomplished and exactly what that means. You can think whatever you want. I know my God is above and beyond my total understanding of what He has not told us. 3 in 1 is what we believe and accept as fact, period. We do not have to understand how that is accomplished. Jesus was 1 with the Father while on earth in human form---which is not the same relationship as He was before the incarnation. We can be 1 with the Father also, as Jesus was, now. But it will be a different experience when we have been resurrected and given eternal life with Them. I know all that the bible says about the 3---we do not know what has not been said and will not discover until the resurrection. If you think you know everything--go ahead and think it---I know there is more yet.
 
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pescador

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That the 3 are one is Truth. But do not even think you are capable of understanding how that is accomplished and exactly what that means. You can think whatever you want. I know my God is above and beyond my total understanding of what He has not told us. 3 in 1 is what we believe and accept as fact, period. We do not have to understand how that is accomplished. Jesus was 1 with the Father while on earth in human form---which is not the same relationship as He was before the incarnation. We can be 1 with the Father also, as Jesus was, now. But it will be a different experience when we have been resurrected and given eternal life with Them. I know all that the bible says about the 3---we do not know what has not been said and will not discover until the resurrection. If you think you know everything--go ahead and think it---I know there is more yet.

Sorry, but I agree with Maria Billingsley's post #59 instead of your explanation. In fact, her statement is one of the clearest I have ever read.
 
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coffee4u

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So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

God knew before he created the world that they would fall into sin, the garden and the 'perfection' there was simply a type or foreshadowing of the New Heavens and New Earth that was to be. It was a taste of things to come. The plan was all along for Jesus to die for the sins of the world, even before God created the world. God sees the beginning, middle and end.
1 Peter 1
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
 
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mmksparbud

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Sorry, but I agree with Maria Billingsley's post #59 instead of your explanation. In fact, her statement is one of the clearest I have ever read.


LOL! I am not in a popularity contest!! I stand by what I said and you are free to believe anything you wish.
 
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pescador

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LOL! I am not in a popularity contest!! I stand by what I said and you are free to believe anything you wish.

Thank you for your permission to believe anything I wish. The same to you. That still doesn't mean that your argument is valid. In fact, refusing to discuss the issue further shows that you have no real basis for your opinion.
 
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mmksparbud

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Thank you for your permission to believe anything I wish. The same to you. That still doesn't mean that your argument is valid. In fact, refusing to discuss the issue further shows that you have no real basis for your opinion.


LOL!! Why do you insist on this being some sort of contest?? I have stated what I believe. As to whether or not you or anyone else believes it---means nothing in the end. I am not trying to force anyone to my will. I am not refusing to discuss anything---I am just stating my believe---period. Take it or throw it away--your choice. You do not validate my believes, I do not validate yours.
 
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LOL!! Why do you insist on this being some sort of contest?? I have stated what I believe. As to whether or not you or anyone else believes it---means nothing in the end. I am not trying to force anyone to my will. I am not refusing to discuss anything---I am just stating my believe---period. Take it or throw it away--your choice. You do not validate my believes, I do not validate yours.

If you don't care if I or anyone else believes what you post then why are you posting it?
 
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JohnD70X7

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So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

Suppositional pretexts can serve a purpose / make a point / raise an issue.
But generally speaking "what if things were different" discussions are exercises in distractions in dealing with the way things are.

We don't know that there would even be children of Adam and Eve had original human sin not occurred. Perpetuation of the human species may not have been necessary if the plan of God worked in the original generation of humanity.

BTW, original sin in the spirit realm had already taken place. Hence the tempter in Eden.

There were two trees for humanity to chose from in that garden ← suggesting a state of being between the two fates of the knowledge of good and evil and of life. When A&E partook of the one tree they were banished to keep them from eating of the other tree to prevent making their fallen state eternal.
 
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Davy

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So if they resisted temptation,.. would all of us be born sinless like Jesus? How else would the world be different?

We cannot apply that kind of thought to God's Word. It would be to suggest not needing Christ's Blood shed upon His cross so as to defeat death for us. Sin had to enter in for God's Word has concluded us all under sin so Salvation would be to those who believe on Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:22).
 
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JohnD70X7

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I believe we have a clue in the prayer of Christ

John 17 (NIV84) verse 5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

It is clear in scripture that Jesus (preincarnate: God the Word) is the lone Creator of all things in the beginning (Isaiah 44:24, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2). This is why he was the one in the Godhead to become a man and lay down that human life to pay for human sin.

Before the world began / existed the spirit realm existed and apparent so did angels (God the Word created them and that realm before he created the physical realm):

Job 38:4–7 (NIV84)
4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.
5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone—
7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

Meaning the angels (here) "sons of God" in other translation... already existed.

And from the interaction between God and Satan in Job chapters 1 and 2... there seems to have been an arrangement / agreement of some sort establishing parameters and boundaries... almost like a court proceeding... In it we learn that at least on two occasions God bargained with the devil... so to speak... probably more like the Judge allowing a lawyer make his case... conditions were agreed on and set.

So this means my outlandish speculation on the following, may not be so outlandish at all.
  1. Lucifer fell into pride and revolted against God
  2. he led a rebellion of sorts against God
  3. bottom line: these angels sinned in their eternal (forever) state meaning they are unable to be redeemed by any means
  4. the pit / lake of fire was created to imprison fallen angels who sinned in their forever state
  5. After judgment was made and as the sentence was about to be meted out the devil made a last effort charge "You are not fair or just!"
  6. Though under no obligation to prove this charge wrong, God the Word set out to prove he is more than just / more than fair... turned and began creation of the physical realm (Genesis 1).
There are a universe of variables and considerations... but what Jesus prayed in John 17:5 is the ultimate purpose for it all. "Why was I born?" John 17:5.

If true, some might get haughty about this... but consider also the intent to prove he is just and fair in all things also cost him dearly.
  • he became a man (John 1:14) while never ceasing to be God (Philippians 2:6-8) for all eternity future (Hebrews 10:5 / Psalm 40:6 / Exodus 21:5-6) even as a resurrected man (1 John 3:2)
  • he was considered illegitimate even by his foster father Joseph at first (Matthew 1:9)
  • he was born in a smelly stable, not a palace (Luke 2:7)
  • he was despised by even his brothers and sisters did not believe in him (John 7:5)
  • he was raise in a seedy town (Nazareth and Sepphoris were essentially Sodom and Gomorrah of they day)
  • was disbelieved by the Jewish leaders and religious leaders
  • betrayed
  • falsely judged
  • beaten mercilessly
  • mocked
  • nailed to a cross
  • speared
All for the people he came to save (first the Jew then the Gentile). A whole series of higher prices Jesus paid than we will ever know.

He created man with the ability to be redeemed by the fact that we can die.

Angels do not die. This is why they cannot be redeemed.
 
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