Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Well I know the Lutherans are Belief Alone-ism, so was the Reformation from the Catholic Church started by Luther was just a trick to lead people to hell?

While I disagree with the Catholic church on many things, Martin Luther said:

“No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner.”​

However, Jesu said, “sin no more” to two people (See: John 5:14, John 8:11).

Paul says,

“. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19).​

Paul says,

“Awake to righteousness, and do not sin;” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

Paul says,


“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).
So I would rather follow Jesus and the apostles in what they say vs. what Luther says.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Peter spoke in Acts 2, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, so the idea of "a little slow" is silly.

He spoke to the Men of Israel only because the nation is whom the Holy Spirit wanted to address. (Acts 2:36)

The apostles were little slow in knowing God's plan in the fact that they did not understand that the Great Commission given to them by Jesus included the Gentiles. Peter had to receive a vision of unclean animals and be sent by God to Cornelius and his household (who were Gentiles). Under normal circumstances without that vision and guidance by God, Peter would have felt that it would have been wrong to visit the Gentiles. Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius and he and his entire household were baptized into the Holy Spirit. Peter had no idea that this was going to happen. He did not initially think the Gentiles were going to be included in God's new program.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yellowMan
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
so someone like Ravi Zechariah, what would you classify him as?

Do you believe a Christian can commit adultery and still be saved while doing so?
Was king David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
Granted, this does not mean a believer cannot later confess of their sins and forsake them so as to receive mercy (See: Proverbs 28:13).
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,847.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do you believe a Christian can commit adultery and still be saved while doing so?
Was king David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder?
Granted, this does not mean a believer cannot later confess of their sins and forsake them so as to receive mercy (See: Proverbs 28:13).

So are you saying you believe Ravi has either lost his salvation, or was never saved in the 1st place?
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,847.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The apostles were little slow in knowing God's plan in the fact that they did not understand that the Great Commission given to them by Jesus included the Gentiles. Peter had to receive a vision of unclean animals and be sent by God to Cornelius and his household (who were Gentiles). Under normal circumstances without that vision and guidance by God, Peter would have felt that it would have been wrong to visit the Gentiles. Peter preached the gospel to Cornelius and he and his entire household were baptized into the Holy Spirit. Peter had no idea that this was going to happen. He did not initially think the Gentiles were going to be included in God's new program.

Did Jesus ever told them the commandment he gave in Matthew 10:5 has now been abolished?

So when they heard Jesus saying Matthew 28:20 "and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you", you are saying Peter is wrong for following that instruction as stated?
 
Upvote 0

Ceallaigh

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
18,751
9,860
The Keep
✟571,590.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
While I disagree with the Catholic church on many things, Martin Luther said:

“No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day. Do you think that the purchase price that was paid for the redemption of our sins by so great a Lamb is too small? Pray boldly—you too are a mighty sinner.”​

However, Jesu said, “sin no more” to two people (See: John 5:14, John 8:11).

Paul says,

“. And, let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19).​

Paul says,

“Awake to righteousness, and do not sin;” (1 Corinthians 15:34).

Paul says,


“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).
So I would rather follow Jesus and the apostles in what they say vs. what Luther says.

Jesus says,

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand". John 10:27-29

Paul says,

"Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us".
Romans 8:33-34

Paul says,

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory". Ephesians 1:13-14

Paul says,

"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit". Titus 3:5

Paul says,

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross". Colossians 2:14

And as someone just said in another thread:

"How can you believe God saved you (have saving faith) if you think you can lose your salvation?" Thread
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,416
4,600
Hudson
✟281,745.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Well, I am not arguing with you over the matters of the Law, am I? No.
Did I mention with you any specific laws? No.
Am I continuing to tell you that the Law is no longer in effect? No.
I am merely explaining to you my reason WHY I am not going to argue in depth about the Law of Moses according to Titus 3:9.

I am also not twisting anything, either.
My conscience is clear on Titus 3:9.
I believe this verse whole heartedly.
The circumcision (who were the Jews who kept the Old Law) are mentioned in Titus 1:10. They are in view of the Law mentioned in Titus 3:9.

Anyways, here is the verse in a couple of translations:

“But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.” (Titus 3:9) (NIV).

“Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time.” (Titus 3:9) (NLT).

“Avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about Moses' Teachings. This is useless and worthless.” (Titus 3:9) (GWT).​

If you don't agree, then let's agree to disagree in love and respect and move on.

May God bless you (even if we disagree).

Can you in honestly and in clear conscience describe our interaction about the law as quarreling?
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Can you in honestly and in clear conscience describe our interaction about the law as quarreling?

First, in the NASB, machē (μάχη) (strivings - KJB) is also translated as “disputes.”

Dispute:
(verb):

1. to engage in argument or debate.​

Source:
Definition of dispute | Dictionary.com

Dispute is defined as a debate. Would we not be engaged in a debate of whether the Old Law is still binding if I continued to keep going back and forth with you on the topic of the Old Law involving the Scriptures? I would say... “yes.” Hence, this is the reason why I am debating this particular topic with you.

Second, the Scriptures say that faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). We get our faith from hearing the Holy Bible. So what do you think one is doing when they fight the good fight of faith according to 1 Timothy 6:12? You think the faith involves keeping the Old Law according to the Bible or the faith. I believe the faith is not about keeping the Old Law anymore according to the Bible or the faith. So how do we fight? We fight with the Sword of the Spirit (Ephesians 6:17). But seeing I am told not to fight in regards to matters or arguments involving the Old Law according to Titus 3:9, I am not going to go beyond a one time defense of the Scriptures in what they say on the matter. I am not going to go back and forth fighting with the Word of God on the issue because Titus 3:9 tells me not to. You may not see that way, but it is simply how I read and understand that verse.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So are you saying you believe Ravi has either lost his salvation, or was never saved in the 1st place?

From my understanding on the forum rules and experience, we are not to say whether a specific person by name or a specific Christian denomination is not saved, or not Christian on the forums without getting points (which leads to suspension and or banning, and threads being closed). For I have learned plenty of times by past experience here on the forums that doing so simply gets one into trouble. But I believe we can talk about salvation in generic terms and or from our understanding on the Bible (without stone throwing to a specific person, persons, or denomination by name, though (Because there is a salvation section in the Christian forums). This is why I answered in the way that I did.

So I will ask you again. Do you believe that a Christian can abide in the sin of adultery and still be saved while doing so? Yes, or no? Was King David saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Note: I believe David later repented (sought forgiveness with the Lord with the true heart intention of putting away these sins) and he was forgiven and restored back to God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Did Jesus ever told them the commandment he gave in Matthew 10:5 has now been abolished?

So when they heard Jesus saying Matthew 28:20 "and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you", you are saying Peter is wrong for following that instruction as stated?

I believe they simply misunderstood Jesus in Matthew 28:19 when He said, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,” They were thinking teach all Jews in those nations and they did not think that this was teaching the nations literally (i.e. other nations = Gentiles). For do you remember what Acts 10-11 says? Peter had to explain to the Jewish Christians that the Gentiles were now accepted into God's new program. This means that Peter and the other apostles misunderstood the words of Jesus yet again.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: yellowMan
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

First, you did not say whether you agreed or disagreed with Luther's statement I provided for you.

Second, you did not address the other verses I put forth to you that show that Paul was not teaching Belief Alone-ism.

You said:
Jesus says,

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand". John 10:27-29

In regards to John 10:27-29:

If my memory serves me correctly: I remember you supporting the idea before that a believer can go prodigal (living in sin for a time), and still be saved while doing so. If this is the case: How is the prodigal believer who has fallen back into a life of sin hearing the voice of Jesus and following Him? Is not the kind of sheep (or believer) who hears His voice and follows Him the kind of believer Jesus is describing as having eternal life and who shall never perish?

You said:
Paul says,

"Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us".
Romans 8:33-34

Romans 8:33-34 is in context to those believers that love Him, and are called according to His purpose.

“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.“ (Romans 8:28).​

God's purpose cannot be sin or the idea of our justifying sin with the thinkng we are saved. God's purpose for our lives is to live holy as a part of God's grace (See: Titus 2:14, Ephesians 5:25-27).

The context of Romans 8:33-34 is also Romans 8:13, and Romans 8:1.

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

This death is condemnation because Romans 8:1 says,

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).​

The context of Romans 8:33-34 is also Romans 8:4 that says:

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:4).​

The righteousness of the Law is loving your neighbor according to Romans 13:8-10.

For to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See: Luke 10:25-37).

For Hebrews 5:9 says, “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”


You said:
Paul says,

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory". Ephesians 1:13-14

In regards to Ephesians 1:13-14:
Well, I will have to give a response to you in another post on this passage because it is rather lengthy. Granted, I know you don't like lengthy replies, but I am not here to cater to what people want, but I am here to tell them the truth (Whether they want to hear it or not). For I know that others who come across this forum looking for the truth will find it here. So I am not just writing to you, but for all to see and to benefit by God's Word.

You said:
Paul says,

"He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit". Titus 3:5

Titus 3:5 is referring to the first aspect of salvation in being saved by God's grace without the deeds of the Law and it is not referring to the second aspect of salvation that follows (Which is Sanctification). In addition, Titus 3:5 is also countering Works Alone Salvationism (without God's grace) put forth by the Jews at that time with them trying to convince Christians to be circumcised in order to be initially saved vs. first placing faith in Jesus as one's Savior (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24, Galatians 5:2, Romans 3:1, Galatians 2:3, etc.). For how many times is a believer washed by the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit? Just one time. For this is being born again spiritually. A beleiver receives a new heart with new desires and they will not want to justify sin. So Titus 3:5 is talking about Initial and or Foundational Salvation, and it is not talking about Sanctification (Which is the second aspect of salvation in God's plan of salvation).

You said:
Paul says,

"Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross". Colossians 2:14

Colossians 2:14 is in reference to Jesus changing the Law by the cross by nailing to the cross the OT ordinances (the OT ceremonial laws). He canceled out things like the Sabbaths (i.e. Saturday Sabbath, yearly Sabbaths), holy days, and dietary laws from the 613 Laws of Moses (See: Colossians 2:16). The Old Law is no more. So that is what is in view here in context of Colossians 2. Paul is not referring to how the commandments of Jesus and His followers are nailed to the cross in Colossians 2.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Paul says,

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory". Ephesians 1:13-14

What is the condition of having the seal of God?

Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

"Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).

The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).

In fact, what is a guarantee?

Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Psalms 51:11
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

Romans 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

Romans 2:25-27
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

John 14:15-16
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Romans 8:9-10
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

Isaiah 63:10
But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

Isaiah 63:14
As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).

Source:
Sealed UNTO the day of redemption, but a seal can be broken Eph. 4:30
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,847.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe they simply misunderstood Jesus in Matthew 28:19 when He said, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,” They were thinking teach all Jews in those nations and they did not think that this was teaching the nations literally (i.e. other nations = Gentiles). For do you remember what Acts 10-11 says? Peter had to explain to the Jewish Christians that the Gentiles were now accepted into God's new program. This means that Peter and the other apostles misunderstood the words of Jesus yet again.

My proposal is that you are the one who is misunderstanding that passage.

The key to understand those words you have highlighted in red, is found in Acts 2:5

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Peter and the others spent 40 days with the resurrected Christ learning about the kingdom (Acts 1:3), and I am more inclined to trust what they have learned, rather than 3rd parties.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,847.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
From my understanding on the forum rules and experience, we are not to say whether a specific person by name or a specific Christian denomination is not saved, or not Christian on the forums without getting points (which leads to suspension and or banning, and threads being closed). For I have learned plenty of times by past experience here on the forums that doing so simply gets one into trouble. But I believe we can talk about salvation in generic terms and or from our understanding on the Bible (without stone throwing to a specific person, persons, or denomination by name, though (Because there is a salvation section in the Christian forums). This is why I answered in the way that I did.

So I will ask you again. Do you believe that a Christian can abide in the sin of adultery and still be saved while doing so? Yes, or no? Was King David saved WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Note: I believe David later repented (sought forgiveness with the Lord with the true heart intention of putting away these sins) and he was forgiven and restored back to God.

Best to be safe then.

I already stated that, in the Body of Christ, salvation is separate from rewards.

Our salvation is based on believing Christ died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd day. If a Christian does that, he is saved and will never lose his salvation no matter what he does after that. So Ravi is definitely saved so long as he believe 1 Cor 15:1-4.

David, on the other hand, is not saved under the Body of Christ, he was saved by being part of the nation Israel. For Israel, none of them have salvation now, they will only receive their final salvation from sins at the 2nd coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-21, Romans 11:25-27).

So David was not "saved" WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder. That is my answer to your question.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Best to be safe then.

I already stated that, in the Body of Christ, salvation is separate from rewards.

Our salvation is based on believing Christ died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd day. If a Christian does that, he is saved and will never lose his salvation no matter what he does after that. So Ravi is definitely saved so long as he believe 1 Cor 15:1-4.

So a person can live like the devil and be saved by simply having a belief in Jesus Christ as their Savior?

What do you make of Galatians 5:19-21?
What do you make of Galatians 6:8-9?

You said:
David, on the other hand, is not saved under the Body of Christ, he was saved by being part of the nation Israel. For Israel, none of them have salvation now, they will only receive their final salvation from sins at the 2nd coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-21, Romans 11:25-27).

So David was not "saved" WHILE he committed his sins of adultery and murder. That is my answer to your question.

I guess David did not get the memo from you on this.
For after David had sinned, he said, “Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.” (Psalms 51:12).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
My proposal is that you are the one who is misunderstanding that passage.

The key to understand those words you have highlighted in red, is found in Acts 2:5

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Peter and the others spent 40 days with the resurrected Christ learning about the kingdom (Acts 1:3), and I am more inclined to trust what they have learned, rather than 3rd parties.

Nope. Like the Jewish apostles at the time, you are not understanding what Jesus said.

For Jesus said:
“Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” (Mark 16:15).
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,847.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So a person can live like the devil and be saved by simply having a belief in Jesus Christ as their Savior?

What do you make of Galatians 5:19-21?
What do you make of Galatians 6:8-9?



I guess David did not get the memo from you on this.
For after David had sinned, he said, “Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.” (Psalms 51:12).

Yes, because as I stated to you under the gospel of grace, salvation is separate from rewards.

Did David say in Psalms 51 that he possess salvation at that moment? If he did, he would not have prayed vs 11.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yellowMan
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,847.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am aware of Acts 21:20-25.
It was Paul's big mistake.
He should not have ignored the warnings in going to Jerusalem by the Spirit.
He dropped the ball and he was pressured to go through with an Old Testament purification rite that involved an animal sacrifice.

Anyways, according to BlueLetterBible, the epistle of James was written about 5 years after Acts 21 whereby Paul was shortly arrested after meeting with the Jewish apostles about the Law.

full

Source:
Acts and the Epistles Chronology - Study Resources

This lets us know that James would have known about Paul's writings. For does it not seem possible that James would counter argue against those who misunderstood Paul and twisted his words as Peter talks about in 2 Peter 3:15-16? For in 2 Peter 2, Peter refers to false teachers who have eyes full of adultery, and who cannot cease from sin (See: 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14). It makes sense that James would be arguing the same thing at this point in the church's history.

Furthermore, Paul says there is no difference between Jew and Gentile (Romans 10:12).

Besides, Paul taught that we need to live holy and or we need to have works of faith (after being saved by God's grace) as a part of salvation, too.

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13). Note: This is a call of the gospel (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:14).

“That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

1 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was."
(2 Timothy 3:1-9).

11 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.” (Titus 2:11-14).

As I stated, You can understand better his point in chapter 2 when you read Acts 21:18-25, which was years after Acts 15.

If what you claimed was true, that James would have known about Paul's writings, then the situation in Acts 21:18-25 would not have taken place

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums