1 John 1:9

Clare73

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"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" forgiveness of sins and to be cleansed from unrighteousness is a salvation issue
Context. . .context. . .context. . .the context is an early form of Gnosticism; i.e., since matter--rather than breaking God's law (1Jn 3:4)--was considered evil, breaking the law was considered of no moral consequence, which led to licentiousness, hence 1Jn 1:8-10.

Justification (declared "not guilty," sin paid for; i.e, made righteous--set in right standing with God's justice, and made acceptable to God),
which is salvation, has cleansed us in the new birth into eternal life.
Eternal life is eternal, you don't lose it, you don't lose new birth, you don't lose justification/salvation because
your sin has been paid for on the cross--all of it!
and without conditionally continual confession then no salvation...no forgiveness of sins....no cleansing from unrighteousness.
You don't know the NT.
God does not take back what he gives, God keeps those who are his, no one (including oneself) can snatch you out of his hand, his arm is not too short--those he justified, he also glorified (Ro 8:30)--past tense, completed, done, irrevocable, fini.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Who wrote the blog does not matter but the information is what matters that being the present tense denotes an ongoing, sustained action. Those that support it have never been able to prove it from the Bible. Their pulling verses out of context, dismissing the present tense and subjunctive mood are red flags.
Charles Stanley, a big proponent of OSAS struggles with the present tense:
Can a Christian Ever Be Lost?

The information needs to be credible. Knowing who supplied the information helps ascertaining reliability and credibility.
 
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setst777

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Justification (declared "not guilty," sin paid for; i.e, made righteous--set in right standing with God's justice, and made acceptable to God)

setst RE:
  • We are justified by faith,
  • We gain access to God's gracious gift of salvation by faith:
Romans 5:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Since we are justified by faith, and we access God's grace by faith, then if we do not continue in the faith, we are no longer justified or remain in God's grace.

1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB) Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.

which is salvation has cleansed us in the new birth into eternal life.

According to God's Word, God cleanses us as we walk in the light. This is a continuous walking in the light so that God will cleanse us.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

Eternal life is eternal, you don't lose it, you don't lose new birth, you don't lose justification/salvation

Eternal Life is ours only as we remain in the faith, continually sowing to the Spirit to receive eternal life:

Galatians 6:8-9 (WEB)
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption.
But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

your sin has been paid for on the cross--all of it!

True, but we appropriate that payment to ourselves by faith in Jesus to the end.

John 5:24-25 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. (Isaiah 60:1). He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

John 12:46 (WEB)
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in the darkness.

You don't know the NT
God does not take back what he gives, God keeps those who are his, no one (including oneself) can snatch you out of his hand, his arm is not too short--those he justified, he also glorified (Ro 8:30)--past tense, completed, done, irrevocable, fini.

The gift of God is irrevocable, but to appropriate that gift to ourselves, we must be faithful to the end.

Luke 21:36 (WEB) 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB)
4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:21 (WEB) He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Romans 11:19-22 (WEB) 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 (WEB) Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.

Galatians 6:8-9 (WEB) 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

Hebrews 3:6 (WEB) 6 but Christ is faithful as a Son over his house. We are his house, if we hold fast our confidence and the glorying of our hope firm to the end.

Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 12 Beware, brothers and sisters, lest perhaps there might be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest anyone of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
Today if you will hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion
.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Hebrews 10:36-39 (WEB)
36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

2 Peter 3:17 (WEB) 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness.

1 Timothy 4:16 (NIV)
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Blessings
 
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Dave L

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If one has a Biblical faith then one knows salvation is conditional upon a continual faithfulness to God and that salvation has never been an unconditional guarantee regardless of what the Christian does.
= salvation by works = not saved. Grace is unconditional. People believe because God saved them, not as you would have it.
 
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Dave L

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John 15:2
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:6-7
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)
 
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Dave L

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That's strange. As a child I distinctly remember loving God.
You were probably born again at an early age. Salvation has nothing to do with "choosing to be saved". That's a false concept.
 
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setst777

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= salvation by works = not saved. Grace is unconditional. People believe because God saved them, not as you would have it.

Show me anywhere in the entire Bible that teaches we are saved so we can believe?

I can show you hundreds of Passages that teach we believe so we can be saved.

Romans 1:16-17 (WEB) 16 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. 17 For in it is revealed God’s righteousness from faith to faith. As it is written, “But the righteous shall live by faith.” [Habakkuk 2:4]

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. [Isaiah 60:1] He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.”

John 12:46 (WEB) 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in the darkness.

John 20:31 (WEB) 31 but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

Romans 5:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.
 
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Clare73

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setst RE:
  • We are justified by faith,
  • We gain access to God's gracious gift of salvation by faith:
Romans 5:1-2 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

Since we are justified by faith, and we access God's grace by faith, then if we do not continue in the faith, we are no longer justified or remain in God's grace.

1 Timothy 4:16 (WEB) Pay attention to yourself and to your teaching. Continue in these things, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.



According to God's Word, God cleanses us as we walk in the light. This is a continuous walking in the light so that God will cleanse us.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.



Eternal Life is ours only as we remain in the faith, continually sowing to the Spirit to receive eternal life:

Galatians 6:8-9 (WEB)
8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption.
But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.



True, but we appropriate that payment to ourselves by faith in Jesus to the end.

John 5:24-25 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 8:12 (WEB) 12 Again, therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. (Isaiah 60:1). He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life.

John 12:46 (WEB)
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me may not remain in the darkness.



The gift of God is irrevocable, but to appropriate that gift to ourselves, we must be faithful to the end.

Luke 21:36 (WEB) 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3:4-5 (WEB)
4 Nevertheless you have a few names in Sardis that didn’t defile their garments. They will walk with me in white, for they are worthy.
He who overcomes will be arrayed in white garments, and I will in no way blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:21 (WEB) He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Romans 11:19-22 (WEB) 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20 True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 (WEB) Now I declare to you, brothers, the Good News which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold firmly the word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.

Galatians 6:8-9 (WEB) 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, if we do not give up.

Hebrews 3:6 (WEB) 6 but Christ is faithful as a Son over his house. We are his house, if we hold fast our confidence and the glorying of our hope firm to the end.

Hebrews 3:12-15 (WEB) 12 Beware, brothers and sisters, lest perhaps there might be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; 13 but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”, lest anyone of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence firm to the end, 15 while it is said,
Today if you will hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion
.” [Psalm 95:7-8]

Hebrews 10:36-39 (WEB)
36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

2 Peter 3:17 (WEB) 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware, lest being carried away with the error of the wicked, you fall from your own steadfastness.

1 Timothy 4:16 (NIV)
16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Blessings
Faith/justification/salvation/eternal life are the simultaneous effects of the new birth, which is only by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit
(Jn 3:7-8), man contributes nothing. "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Rev 7:10)

The new birth is never lost, but in times of persecution the saints need to be encouraged to endure and persevere to the end. That is one of the ways God keeps them, not allowing anyone to snatch them from his hand.

Only the tares fall away, because they have no root (rebirth). Lk 8:13
 
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spiritfilledjm

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If salvation is conditional on obedience then Christs work on the cross can become undone.

I don't believe in that

Romans 6:1-8, Hebrews 10:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
 
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Der Alte

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<Quote="Der Alte">John 15:2
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:6-7
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.<
/QUOTE>
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)
Do you seriously think the words in John in 1 Jhn 3:9 supersede the words of Jesus in Jhn 1?
.....Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church for 2000+ years. Who better than the many native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible know the correct meaning of Greek words?
<>1 Jn 3:9 Those who have been born of God do not keep on sinning because God’s seed abides in them. They cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (1 Jn 3:9). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.

<>NIV 1 Jhn 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
<>ESV 1 John 3:9
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
<>ISV 1 John 3:9
9 No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.
<>A.T. Robertson Cmty
Doeth no sin (hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jo_3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.
<>John Gill Cmty
doth not commit sin; does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it; and that for this reason:


 
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setst777

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Faith/justification/salvation/eternal life are the simultaneous effects of the new birth, which is only by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit
(Jn 3:7-8), man contributes nothing. "Salvation is the Lord's!" (Rev 7:10)

Many Scriptures in the New Testament teach about the New Birth using various terms such as:
  • making alive,
  • giving life,
  • renewal,
  • new creation,
  • darkness to light,
  • raised with Christ,
  • death to life.
Since "John 3:7-9" does not teach who is given birth, or when or how that birth takes place then. . .

Show me anywhere in Scripture where it teaches what you are presuming as follows:

Faith/justification/salvation/eternal life are the simultaneous effects of the new birth, which is only by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit

Show me anywhere in Scripture that teaches as you presume in the following:

The new birth is never lost

Show me anywhere in Scripture that teaches as you presume that "root" has anything to do with "rebirth" as you states as follows:

Only the tares fall away, because they have no root (rebirth). Lk 8:13

Plus, you are mixing two unrelated Scriptures, one of which speaks about "faith" and the other about "tares." Why would you do that?

Blessings
 
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Butterball1

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= salvation by works = not saved. Grace is unconditional. People believe because God saved them, not as you would have it.

Salvation by obedience to God's will, as Paul wrote "obedience unto righteousness" Romans 6:16.

Would Abraham have been justified had he not obeyed God in moving from his land home kindred? No. Had he disobeyed in Gen 12 by not obeying in moving then everything afterward Gen 13-22 would have never happened. Abraham would NEVER been justified by living in defiance to God's will.

No verse teaches God's grace is unconditional. Titus 2:11 if God's grace were unconditional then all men would be saved unconditionally but that is not the case. Receiving God's grace is conditional upon obedience to God's will. Again, Abraham was justified by his obedient works. Not justified by rebelling and being defiant to God's will which would NEVER justified him.

You post "People believe because God saved them". You have people saved BEFORE they even believe which goes against many many verses that put belief before salvation. John 3:18 unbelief is an already condemned state not an already saved state. Romans 5:1-2 it is faith that gives access to God's grace therefore as long as one is in and remains in unbelief he will NEVER have access to God's grace.
 
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Butterball1

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The information needs to be credible. Knowing who supplied the information helps ascertaining reliability and credibility.
It is credible. I have not shown you prove it not to be credible. That was just one website I picked at random. I can give you links to cites that deal with the Greek language and present tense verbs written by Greek scholars you like?

John 3:16 perishing or not perishing (subjunctive mood) is conditional upon one maintain as present tense life long sustained ongoing belief. If one does maintain a present tense beleif then he should not perish. If one quits believing then he should perish, this is the gist of the present tense and subjunctive mood. Since you are denying the present tense, is it your position then that one can completely and all together quit believing become an athiest yet still be saved anyway?
 
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Butterball1

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Context. . .context. . .context. . .the context is an early form of Gnosticism; i.e., since matter--rather than breaking God's law (1Jn 3:4)--was considered evil, breaking the law was considered of no moral consequence, which led to licentiousness, hence 1Jn 1:8-10.

Justification (declared "not guilty," sin paid for; i.e, made righteous--set in right standing with God's justice, and made acceptable to God),
which is salvation, has cleansed us in the new birth into eternal life.
Eternal life is eternal, you don't lose it, you don't lose new birth, you don't lose justification/salvation because
your sin has been paid for on the cross--all of it!
You don't know the NT.
God does not take back what he gives, God keeps those who are his, no one (including oneself) can snatch you out of his hand, his arm is not too short--those he justified, he also glorified (Ro 8:30)--past tense, completed, done, irrevocable, fini.

The context of 1 John 1:7-9 is John is writing to those who are Christians. And saying IF they continue to walk in the light and IF they continue to confess their sins then they will continually have their sins cleansed away. Justification is a process not a one and done deal completed when one has faith only regardless of what the Christian ever does.
 
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Dave L

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Salvation by obedience to God's will, as Paul wrote "obedience unto righteousness" Romans 6:16.

Would Abraham have been justified had he not obeyed God in moving from his land home kindred? No. Had he disobeyed in Gen 12 by not obeying in moving then everything afterward Gen 13-22 would have never happened. Abraham would NEVER been justified by living in defiance to God's will.

No verse teaches God's grace is unconditional. Titus 2:11 if God's grace were unconditional then all men would be saved unconditionally but that is not the case. Receiving God's grace is conditional upon obedience to God's will. Again, Abraham was justified by his obedient works. Not justified by rebelling and being defiant to God's will which would NEVER justified him.

You post "People believe because God saved them". You have people saved BEFORE they even believe which goes against many many verses that put belief before salvation. John 3:18 unbelief is an already condemned state not an already saved state. Romans 5:1-2 it is faith that gives access to God's grace therefore as long as one is in and remains in unbelief he will NEVER have access to God's grace.
This is what saved people do by nature of the New Birth. Just as cats do what cats do, and dogs do what dogs do, the born again do what the born again do. If it doesn't come naturally, its hypocrisy.
 
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Butterball1

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The inevitable problem with that though is "does" is so indefinable. And God's holiness is so great even Mother Teresa didn't do enough to come anywhere close to qualifying.
I never argued that doing many good works saves. What I have argued that obedience to God's will saves specifically in believing John 8:24; repenting of sins Luke 13:3 confession Matthew 10:22-23 and submitting to baptism, Mark 16:16. Then after obeying and one becomes a Christian he is to live a faithful life to Christ unto death, Revelation 2:10. Doing good works is part of living faithful unto Christ and necessary for the Christian to be fruitful else become unfruitful and cut off like an unfruitful branch and cast into the fire. An athiest can do many good works but they will never save him, not until one obeys by believing, repenting, confessing and submitting to baptism can he then be saved.
 
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Dave L

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<Quote="Der Alte">John 15:2
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

John 15:6-7
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.<
/QUOTE>

Do you seriously think the words in John in 1 Jhn 3:9 supersede the words of Jesus in Jhn 1?
.....Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church for 2000+ years. Who better than the many native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible know the correct meaning of Greek words?
<>1 Jn 3:9 Those who have been born of God do not keep on sinning because God’s seed abides in them. They cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (1 Jn 3:9). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.

<>NIV 1 Jhn 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
<>ESV 1 John 3:9
9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
<>ISV 1 John 3:9
9 No one who has been born from God practices sin, because God's seed abides in him. Indeed, he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born from God.
<>A.T. Robertson Cmty
Doeth no sin (hamartian ou poiei). Linear present active indicative as in 1Jo_3:4 like hamartanei in 1Jo_3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.
<>John Gill Cmty
doth not commit sin; does not make it his trade and business; it is not the constant course of his life; he does not live and walk in sin, or give up himself to it; he is not without the being of it in him, or free from acts of sin in his life and conversation, but he does not so commit it as to be the servant of it, a slave unto it, or to continue in it; and that for this reason:

Only the born again can identify with this. It's the salvation experience.
 
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Butterball1

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This is what saved people do by nature of the New Birth. Just as cats do what cats do, and dogs do what dogs do, the born again do what the born again do. If it doesn't come naturally, its hypocrisy.

No one is saved FIRST then goes about believing/obeying. One first obeys then saved. One cannot experience the new birth apart from obedience for it takes obedience to be born again/walk in newness of life.
 
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Dave L

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No one is saved FIRST then goes about believing/obeying. One first obeys then saved. One cannot experience the new birth apart from obedience for it takes obedience to be born again/walk in newness of life.
Spiritually dead people cannot grasp spiritual truth. And all are born spiritually dead in Adam. Faith is the fruit of having the Holy Spirit.
 
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Butterball1

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If salvation is conditional on obedience then Christs work on the cross can become undone.

I don't believe in that
Obedience to Christ is part of salvation Hebrews 5:9. Therefore those who obey CHrist are taking advantage of what Christ did for man on the cross. Thoe that disobey Christ are letting it pass by.

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."
 
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