Third temple being build in Jerusalem right now

Hammster said:

No they don’t.

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Jesus appearing in the clouds with power and great glory and the elect being gathered from one end of heaven to the other doesn't describe the return of Jesus?
The disciples asked Jesus what is the sign of His coming but Jesus describing His actual coming in the clouds (as in Revelation 1:7) isn't referring to His coming?

Jamdoc said:

Jesus said Himself that the Son doesn't know the day or hour.

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Not trying to sidetrack the OP however a clear understanding of the Words Jesus Spoke is required here

Matthew 24:35-37 King James Version (KJV)
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


3. Those who claim that the text proved that nothing may be known of the period of the second advent make it prove too much. As recorded by Mark, the declaration reads: “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” If the text proves that men will know nothing of the period of the second advent, it also proves that angels will know nothing of it, and also that the Son will know nothing of it, till the event takes place! this position proves too much, therefore, proves nothing to the point. Christ will know of the period of his second advent to this world. The holy angels, who wait around the throne of Heaven to receive messages relative to the part they act in the salvation of men, will know of the time of this closing event of salvation. And so will the waiting, watching people of God understand. An old English version of the passage reads, “But that day and hour no man maketh known, neither the angels which are in Heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” This is the correct reading, according to several of the ablest critics of the age. The word know is used in the same sense here that it is by Paul, in 1Cor.2:2: “For I determined not to know [make known] anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” Men will not make known the day and hour, angels will not make it known, neither will the Son; but the Father will make it known. Says Campbell, “Macknight argues that the term know is here used as a causative, in the Hebrew sense of the conjugation hiphil, that is to make known. . . . His [Christ’s] answer is just equivalent to saying, The Father will make it known when it pleases him; but he has not authorized man,angel, nor the Son, to make it known. Just in this sense Paul uses the term know: 1Cor.2:2: ‘I came to you making known the testimony of God; for I determined to make known nothing among you but a crucified Christ.’ “ Albert Barnes, in his Notes on the Gospels, says, “Others have said that the verb re ord has sometimes that meaning, as 1Cor.2:2.” The Father will make known the time. He gave the period of the flood to Noah, which well represents the proclamation of the second advent, given in connection with the evidence of the termination of the periods of Daniel, during the great second advent movement.

https://sdapillars.org/media/download_gallery/jw_TheSecondAdvent.pdf

From Wikipedia

James MacKnight
Rev Dr James MacKnight DD was a Scottish minister and theological author, serving at the Old Kirk of Edinburgh. He is remembered for his book Harmony of the Gospels and as Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in 1769.

Albert Barnes (December 1, 1798 – December 24, 1870)[1] was an American theologian, born in Rome, New York. He graduated from Hamilton College, Clinton, New York, in 1820, and from Princeton Theological Seminary in 1823. Barnes was ordained as a Presbyterian minister by the presbytery of Elizabethtown, New Jersey, in 1825, and was the pastor successively of the Presbyterian Church in Morristown, New Jersey (1825–1830), and of the First Presbyterian Church of Philadelphia (1830–1868).

Jamdoc said:

even Jesus didn't know the exact time. "Only the Father"

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See above post #224

Ivan Hlavanda said:

I cannot 100% confirm this of course, I'm just saying it's quite possible, they started to build the third temple now.

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The counterfeit is always available for us to believe

You would be better served to study the temple in Heaven instead of the teaching of a third temple here on earth.

Exodus 25:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Webster’s 1828 Dictionary

Sanctuary (noun)

1. A sacred place; particularly among the Israelites, the most retired part of the temple at Jerusalem, called the Holy of Holies, in which was kept the ark of the covenant,

Timtofly said:

Second Coming is the event that starts the unprecedented period of GT.

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Are you saying that the GT is only for the lost?

Original Happy Camper said:

The counterfeit is always available for us to believe

You would be better served to study the temple in Heaven instead of the teaching of a third temple here on earth.

Exodus 25:8-10 King James Version (KJV)
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Webster’s 1828 Dictionary

Sanctuary (noun)

1. A sacred place; particularly among the Israelites, the most retired part of the temple at Jerusalem, called the Holy of Holies, in which was kept the ark of the covenant,

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I think that any Christians eyeing a third temple are not looking at it as being a place holy to God. We understand that we are the temple. This temple that the Jews will build is not for us, it has nothing to do with us. They want to build it because they don't believe the new testament, they reject Jesus as the Messiah, so they are waiting for a "Messiah", and they want the temple to be rebuilt because they think it'll be important to ushering in the messianic age.

I think a lot of people get confused on that, they think we WANT the temple for US.
Anyone watching for a third temple to be built fully understands that this temple will be blasphemous especially if they perform animal sacrifices there because that is a rejection of Jesus being our passover lamb and our one sacrifice for all sin.

We don't believe a temple should be built, but acknowledge that one will be built by unbelieving Jews as a major end times sign.

The Jews are trying to get a red heifer to sacrifice according to Numbers 19, and have made and dedicated 2 portable altars that they can set up within a day. They've been making recreations of the temple implements and training Levirite priests. They're serious about this.

Jamdoc said:

I think that any Christians eyeing a third temple are not looking at it as being a place holy to God. We understand that we are the temple. This temple that the Jews will build is not for us, it has nothing to do with us. They want to build it because they don't believe the new testament, they reject Jesus as the Messiah, so they are waiting for a "Messiah", and they want the temple to be rebuilt because they think it'll be important to ushering in the messianic age.

I think a lot of people get confused on that, they think we WANT the temple for US.
Anyone watching for a third temple to be built fully understands that this temple will be blasphemous especially if they perform animal sacrifices there because that is a rejection of Jesus being our passover lamb and our one sacrifice for all sin.

We don't believe a temple should be built, but acknowledge that one will be built by unbelieving Jews as a major end times sign.

The Jews are trying to get a red heifer to sacrifice according to Numbers 19, and have made and dedicated 2 portable altars that they can set up within a day. They've been making recreations of the temple implements and training Levirite priests. They're serious about this.

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It is a falsehood and deception to take your eyes off of the truth, why would you spend time on it?

the Jewish nation was declared lost by Jesus at the end of the seventy weeks as a nation they committed the unpardonable sin.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

they did not fulfill any of the above requirements, the transgressed, kept sinning ... ect.

Original Happy Camper said:

Are you saying that the GT is only for the lost?

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If by "lost" you mean "not glorified".

I am saying the church has been teaching the Second Coming at the wrong point of the book of Revelation.

The GT is not "for". It is the final Harvest. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus is pointing out that He will be present for this time of unprecedented tribulation or GT, as you put it.

I think the word great though indicates generations. As in great grand parents or great great grandparents. The great tribulation was the whole 1991 years of the time the church was Steward. The unprecedented tribulation, such as never seen nor ever seen again is just the short window of the Trumpets and Thunders. Between the 6th and 7th Trumpet, there are 7 Thunders that were sealed from our knowledge.

These have to happen prior to the 7th Trumpet.

The 7th Trumpet is a week long event.

This week is split in half by Satan's 42 months.

None of this time is for a certain group. The harvest of Israel is the separation of the sheep and goats. I think these souls will be separated from human flesh as in physically dead. God is both prolonging some lives so they cannot die until Armageddon, yet sending many souls to their final destination. The Thunders is the judgment of the nations, after the church, and after Jacob is removed. That is implied by the type of vinyard and harvest literary convention of Jesus' parables. Wheat and tares are the last harvested souls, the Nations. That is why God on the throne and the Lamb are physically present, as well as Satan. Humans will clearly understand during that time their eternal state of being. Then if Satan gets 42 months, it will either be the mark or beheaded as the only choice for eternity that living humans face. This is not the age of grace or salvation. Are these people lost? Yes, if they receive the mark. Those beheaded are given a new incorruptible body and will never die again. But during the 1000 year reign, they are not part of the church, but only live on earth. They did not die for Christ. They died to save their own soul in a selfish way. Will they know it when that time comes? They should if they read this post. However their state of mind is unknown. Did these people think they were saved and went to church, but knew they were not in Christ? Can one now understand these things and endure long enough to get their head cut off at the proper time? Who knows? Does not seem to be something to take chances over.

Just implying this time is only for the lost, does not make sense when reading the parables Jesus taught. The sheep and wheat are not "lost" people. They are not glorified either.

Original Happy Camper said:

It is a falsehood and deception to take your eyes off of the truth, why would you spend time on it?

the Jewish nation was declared lost by Jesus at the end of the seventy weeks as a nation they committed the unpardonable sin.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

they did not fulfill any of the above requirements, the transgressed, kept sinning ... ect.

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That is replacement theology.
That's a dangerous pitfall to fall into.
If you believe that God won't fulfill His promises to National Israel (and since He already knew they'd fail at upholding their end, it'd mean He never truly intended to fulfill those promises, so that'd mean God was being deceptive), then you should worry about any promise He made to you.

Paul taught that Israel was partially blinded but one day God would remove that blindness and a remnant would be saved, Zachariah gave the detail that 2/3 of Israel would die but the 1/3 remnant would be saved.

Jamdoc said:

If you believe that God won't fulfill His promises to National Israel (and since He already knew they'd fail at upholding their end, it'd mean He never truly intended to fulfill those promises, so that'd mean God was being deceptive), then you should worry about any promise He made to you.

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Do you believe that God fulfilled his promise in Jeremiah 31:35-36 that Israel will cease from being a nation before God forever?

grafted branch said:

Do you believe that God fulfilled his promise in Jeremiah 31:35-36 that Israel will cease from being a nation before God forever?

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That's actually really funny sorry I have to laugh..
okay.. read those verses carefully and remember the context in which they are given is that He will make a new covenant with Israel, and this covenant even includes there's no reason to preach the Gospel, because everyone will already know and love the Lord (Jeremiah 31:34) which says to me, this is a new heavens and new earth covenant.
Now next part starting in verse 35. He's guaranteeing Israel will NOT cease to be a nation, He's saying that as long as the moon and stars exist and as long as there are seas dividing the land Israel will exist (at least as a people group apparently). It's when THOSE ordinances (the ones governing the moon and stars and seas) go away, THAT is when Israel will no longer exist.
Furthermore, He says that when Heaven can be measured and you can dig all the way through the earth's foundations, THAT is when Israel will cease to exist. We can't measure the heavens. Nor can we drill all the way through the earth.
God is giving impossible conditions, to basically say, Israel will always be a nation (probably meant as a people group rather than a country, because the country has been made "a desolation" multiple times)

Jamdoc said:

That is replacement theology.
That's a dangerous pitfall to fall into.

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Dangerous to who?
The fact the Christians are the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation, that is; 'dangerous' only to those who choose to believe in a 'rapture to heaven'.
It proves that their escape theory is wrong, unscriptural and will never happen.

grafted branch said:

Do you believe that God fulfilled his promise in Jeremiah 31:35-36 that Israel will cease from being a nation before God forever?

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That is not what those verses say.

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Do you think that humans have figured out the dimensions of reality?

It is a given that all physical reality will end and a new one will begin, because reality is finite, with a beginning and an end. Does it really matter if any one remembers former things after the NHNE?

No, these verses are not yet fulfilled until the NHNE.

Jamdoc said:

That's actually really funny sorry I have to laugh..
okay.. read those verses carefully and remember the context in which they are given is that He will make a new covenant with Israel, and this covenant even includes there's no reason to preach the Gospel, because everyone will already know and love the Lord (Jeremiah 31:34) which says to me, this is a new heavens and new earth covenant.
Now next part starting in verse 35. He's guaranteeing Israel will NOT cease to be a nation, He's saying that as long as the moon and stars exist and as long as there are seas dividing the land Israel will exist (at least as a people group apparently). It's when THOSE ordinances (the ones governing the moon and stars and seas) go away, THAT is when Israel will no longer exist.
Furthermore, He says that when Heaven can be measured and you can dig all the way through the earth's foundations, THAT is when Israel will cease to exist. We can't measure the heavens. Nor can we drill all the way through the earth.
God is giving impossible conditions, to basically say, Israel will always be a nation (probably meant as a people group rather than a country, because the country has been made "a desolation" multiple times)

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I did read the verse carefully, it’s the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars that have to depart from before God, not the physical sun, moon, and stars. Also the ordinances have to depart from before God not mankind.

Genesis 1:14-18 gives the ordinances of the Sun, moon, and stars. They are for seasons, days, and years. So the ordinances that define what a day and a year are, do not appear to be with God any longer in 2 Peter 3:8 because one day is not one day, it’s as a 1,000 years.


In Revelation 21:15-17 the holy city Jerusalem that descended out of heaven was measured and in Romans 6:4 we are buried with him by baptism. So both the heavens can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out.

grafted branch said:

I did read the verse carefully, it’s the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars that have to depart from before God, not the physical sun, moon, and stars. Also the ordinances have to depart from before God not mankind.

Genesis 1:14-18 gives the ordinances of the Sun, moon, and stars. They are for seasons, days, and years. So the ordinances that define what a day and a year are, do not appear to be with God any longer in 2 Peter 3:8 because one day is not one day, it’s as a 1,000 years.


In Revelation 21:15-17 the holy city Jerusalem that descended out of heaven was measured and in Romans 6:4 we are buried with him by baptism. So both the heavens can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out.

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A day with the Lord (Adonai) was the 7th Day that was the first 1000 years of creation. That was a reality before the 4 seasons which the Flood of Noah started. There was not even rain prior to the Flood. Neither were there seasons.

God still claims that while this reality is here, Israel will exist or be able to exist as a Nation. God changed the laws once which destroyed the sons of God created on the 6th day; in Noah's Flood. Only Adam's descendants were left on earth. God cares more for the Nation of Israel than those sons of God created on the 6th day in His image. Genesis 2:1-6

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, along with everything in them.
2 On the seventh day God was finished with his work which he had made, so he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce.
4 Here is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created. On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven,
5 there was as yet no wild bush on the earth, and no wild plant had as yet sprung up; for Adonai, God, had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no one to cultivate the ground.
6 Rather, a mist went up from the earth which watered the entire surface of the ground.


The day of Adonai was the first 1000 years. It includes the 6 days prior. The 7th day was holy and set apart as 1000 years, and no man tilled the ground. There was no rain, and no seeds of any kind sprung out of the ground. Not wild seeds and not purposely placed seeds by tilling the ground.

God gave Moses and the nation of Israel the 4th command to remember that 7th Day. It was so important that God sent them to Babylon to make up 70 years worth of not remembering this day. So the nation of Israel should take Creation and God seriously as they as a nation are closer to God, than even His own creation they are apart of.

Timtofly said:

God still claims that while this reality is here, Israel will exist or be able to exist as a Nation.

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What God claimed was if the ordinances departed from before Him, not from before us or the reality that is here before us.

keras said:

Dangerous to who?
The fact the Christians are the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation, that is; 'dangerous' only to those who choose to believe in a 'rapture to heaven'.
It proves that their escape theory is wrong, unscriptural and will never happen.

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Dangerous to anyone who believes in Replacement Theology, it'd be most dangerous if it were actually true.
A few considerations as to why it is a dangerous theology.
1. We believe that God knows everything and declares the end from the beginning right? So if God makes a conditional promise, He already knows what the people He makes a covenant with will behave. Given that He already knew Israel would not keep His commandments, it'd make that promise not sincere since you knew you'd never have to keep that promise. It's like promising someone with severe hayfever, "I'll give you a million dollars if you never sneeze again". You know full well you're not giving them a million dollars because you know full well they won't be able to go through their entire life never sneezing again. God knows man is wicked and has a sinful nature. He always knew He'd have to punish Israel, but promised to bring them back, and continues to make promises to Israel. If those promises were conditional and God knew they'd never live up to their side? He never meant those promises. This means we'd need to be wary about whether or not God intends to keep His promises to us, because we're fallible.
2. If God did NOT know whether or not Israel would obey their side of the covenant, then God is not omniscient, making Him a less than perfect God, then you have to wonder what are His limitations.

grafted branch said:

I did read the verse carefully, it’s the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars that have to depart from before God, not the physical sun, moon, and stars. Also the ordinances have to depart from before God not mankind.

Genesis 1:14-18 gives the ordinances of the Sun, moon, and stars. They are for seasons, days, and years. So the ordinances that define what a day and a year are, do not appear to be with God any longer in 2 Peter 3:8 because one day is not one day, it’s as a 1,000 years.

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God was always timeless and Peter was actually referring back to a Psalm, so no, God did not change the way He reckoned time at some date in the past. God does not change and Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

In Revelation 21:15-17 the holy city Jerusalem that descended out of heaven was measured and in Romans 6:4 we are buried with him by baptism. So both the heavens can be measured and the foundations of the earth searched out.

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Even if God means that Israel won't exist as a nation on the New Earth... the New Earth hasn't happened yet... and New Jerusalem isn't the entire span of the Heavens. The second heavens (the physical universe/space) is unmeasurable. We have a known universe that we can measure, but because of the speed of light we know that's not actually the physical edge of the universe, we can't measure that.