A Word on 2Peter 2:20, 21

Brightfame52 said:

Yes, Adam and Eves nature from the beginning was sinful, but innocent. Gods law/command was the occasion for it to manifest itself. Rom 5:20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

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Can you explain “sinful, but innocent”? Why would sin earn death if the sinner was innocent?

WordSword said:

Good point! It's comforting to know that all that is done is for the sake of man--in order to be with Him! To Him, man is the next most important in all existence after the Trinity.

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Yes, but Im glad you said man is of subordinate importance when it comes to God and Christ, He does these things first and foremost for His own sake, for instance, Creation itself is for Christ Col 1:16-18

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

fhansen said:

Can you explain “sinful, but innocent”? Why would sin earn death if the sinner was innocent?

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Like a baby, the baby is born a sinner, however until it sins, it was innocent, however its sin nature will soon be manifested.

WordSword said:

One cannot read anywhere Scripture very long without it presenting the concept of God desiring man to choose rightly.

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Huh ? That came out of left field !

WordSword said:

Scripture is always encouraging man to choose rightly (God).

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You lost me !

WordSword said:

Decided to share some commentary concerning “heresies” from “false teachers” (v 1):

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” I believe this phrase is the same as many other passages like Heb 10:26 – “receiving the knowledge of the truth” i.e. Gospel. I think if this intended to mean receiving or accepting the truth of the Gospel, and not just the knowledge of it, this would be stated differently, because Scripture is directly plain when the subject concerns being saved, redeemed or reborn. Thus, it is more hermeneutically reasonable that “the knowledge of the Lord” intends only the knowledge of the Lord is learned, received or discovered, but not His Gospel and Himself received.

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world”: “these, men may escape, abstain from, and outwardly reform, with respect unto, and yet be destitute of the grace of God; so that this can be no instance of the final and total apostasy of real saints; for the house may be swept and garnished with an external reformation; persons may be outwardly righteous before men, have a form of godliness and a name to live, and yet be dead in trespasses and sins.”

“By which ‘knowledge’ is meant, not a spiritual experimental knowledge of Christ, for that is eternal life, the beginning, pledge, and earnest of it; but a notional knowledge of Christ, or a profession of knowledge of Him, for it may be rendered "acknowledgment"; or rather the Gospel of Christ, which, being only notionally received, may have such an effect on men, as outwardly to reform their lives, at least in some instances, and for a while, in whose hearts it has no place.”
–J Gill

I strongly recommend viewing the entirety of Gill’s commentary on 2Peter 2! 2 Peter 2 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

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In Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

In regards to 2 Peter 2:20, those who are born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than merely cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust” with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome.

*Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4). Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example.

WordSword said:

Decided to share some commentary concerning “heresies” from “false teachers” (v 1):

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” I believe this phrase is the same as many other passages like Heb 10:26 – “receiving the knowledge of the truth” i.e. Gospel. I think if this intended to mean receiving or accepting the truth of the Gospel, and not just the knowledge of it, this would be stated differently, because Scripture is directly plain when the subject concerns being saved, redeemed or reborn. Thus, it is more hermeneutically reasonable that “the knowledge of the Lord” intends only the knowledge of the Lord is learned, received or discovered, but not His Gospel and Himself received.



“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world”: “these, men may escape, abstain from, and outwardly reform, with respect unto, and yet be destitute of the grace of God; so that this can be no instance of the final and total apostasy of real saints; for the house may be swept and garnished with an external reformation; persons may be outwardly righteous before men, have a form of godliness and a name to live, and yet be dead in trespasses and sins.”

“By which ‘knowledge’ is meant, not a spiritual experimental knowledge of Christ, for that is eternal life, the beginning, pledge, and earnest of it; but a notional knowledge of Christ, or a profession of knowledge of Him, for it may be rendered "acknowledgment"; or rather the Gospel of Christ, which, being only notionally received, may have such an effect on men, as outwardly to reform their lives, at least in some instances, and for a while, in whose hearts it has no place.”
–J Gill


I strongly recommend viewing the entirety of Gill’s commentary on 2Peter 2! 2 Peter 2 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

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2 Peter 2 refutes the false teaching of OSAS. The passage is speaking of those who were once Christians, those who had been "bought" redeemed by the Lord (2 Peter 2:1) but went into apostasy.

2 Peter 2:20-21 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

If these people were "never really saved" then it cannot be said they escaped the pollution - defilement - wickedness of this world for they never left it. It cannot be said they become "entangled AGAIN" if they were ALWAYS entangled in the defilement of this world. If they were always lost then the latter end is no worse than the beginning for being lost is lost.....beginning to end. They could not turn from the way of righteousness if they were never in the way of righteousness.

2 Peter 2:18 "For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error."

These Apostates use 'words' as bait to lure those, by lust and lewdness, who are new converts to Christianity.

2 Peter 2:19 " Promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved."

These apostates lure these new converts by telling these new converts they have "liberty" from law therefore they have license to indulge in sin. Yet Paul and Peter refute the idea that the Christian can live in sin with impunity, (Romans 6:1-2; Galatians 5:13; 1 Peter 2:16). These apostates are probably some of the first to push the false teaching of grace alone, of trying to drive a wedge between grace and law when in fact grace and law go together like hand in glove. The irony of these false teachers preaching "liberty" is that "they themselves are slaves of corruption". They were serving "sin into death" (Romans 6:16) by their false teaching of "liberty" for "by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved". Peter reiterates Paul in saying what one chooses to serve one makes himself a slave to it. Those that willfully choose to sin then are making themselves servants of sin.

2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first."

The pronoun "they" probably refers to these false teaching apostates. It could refer to their converts which they turned from the truth. But in either case, the verse shows those who have escaped the wicked, sinful defilement of this world (one does not partly escape or escape just a little bit but one either has wholly escaped or remains entangled, no middle ground) can become lost by being entangled AGAIN. The word "again" implies they were once entangled in sin/defilement, escaped it by the gospel of Christ but became entangled AGAIN. "the last state has become worse for them than the first"....willful and knowing disobedience (Hebrews 10:26) can be worse than disobedience done in ignorance. But again, if these people were never really saved then they were always lost from beginning to end therefore the beginning was just as worse as the end and vice versa.

2 Peter 2:21 "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them."

The word "known" means they clearly understood the way of righteousness and not just a mere association with it. " to turn away from" shows a willful choice these apostates made turning from the holy commandments which they knew. They knew and understood God's word so it was not God's word that cause them to "turn away" they willfully chose to turn from it. Therefore the "natural man" can know, understand God's word but willfully rejects it because he has judged it as being foolish.
Again, one cannot turn from the way of righteousness if one was never in the way of righteousness.

Brightfame52 said:

Like a baby, the baby is born a sinner, however until it sins, it was innocent, however its sin nature will soon be manifested.

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Well yes...in a fallen world where the knowledge of God, let alone relationship with Him, has been lost. That very separation is the definition of man's death, aka the state sometimes called "original sin". But consider that if God creates man to be a sinner then every most heinous and atrocious and deceitful act was directly willed and caused by Him. And that makes Him less trustworthy than satan, and heaven potentially worse then hell, if any of it be true to begin with in that case. Anyway, to be born with a sin nature where sin will inevitably manifest as soon as its able to is not to be born innocent. We're actually just born with something missing, however, that "something" being God immediately present to and dwelling within.

Man wasn't created as a sinner; God created everything good-because He is good, sheer goodness itself. So good and evil must be distinguished between, in our world and in God to begin with. Sin/evil is inherently opposed to God even if He allows it to occur, caused by the abuse of the gift of free will possessed by created beings, for a time and for His purposes. Ostensibly so that we may, directly and viscerally, learn a lesson the hard way: that sin is wrong, God is right, and good, and we need Him, direct communion with Him, desperately in order for good to prevail in our selves and in our world.

Man's "problem", his imperfection, is simply that he's not God who, alone, is perfect in the absolute sense. And very inherent and unavoidable imperfection of man is the ingredient that, when combined with free will, can allow man to foolishly think he's equal to God first of all. Adam actually thought he could go it alone; by denying God's authority he effectively denied His godhood, becoming his own "god". All other sin flowed from that first act of disobedience, that separation from the author and creator of our souls, of our very existence, with Whom man must be freely subjugated to and in communion with in order for righteousness to truly and fully reign in us. And love, as in the greatest commandment, is the only authentic way that such obedience can occur; love defines righteousness, in fact. And patiently bringing us to that point, to that light, to love as He does, has been God's whole purpose since the Fall, since before the Fall, since before creation IOW. Adam, IMO, most likely possesses that love by now. It begins here on earth with faith, reversing Adam's lack of belief in God. When the time was ripe Jesus came to restore that very faith, by fully revealing the true God to us so that we may believe, and so be reconciled and ultimately enter a communion of love with, God the Trinity.

fhansen said:

Well yes...in a fallen world where the knowledge of God, let alone relationship with Him, been lost. That very separation is the definition of man's death, aka the state sometimes called "original sin". But consider that if God creates man to be a sinner then every most heinous and atrocious and deceitful act was directly willed and caused by Him. And that makes Him less trustworthy than satan, and heaven potentially worse then hell, it any of it be true to begin with in that case. Anyway, to be born with a sin nature where sin will inevitably manifest as soon as its to is not to be born innocent. We're actually just born with something missing, however, that "something" being God immediately present to and desired by us, within.

Man wasn't created as a sinner; God created everything good-because He is good, sheer goodness itself. So good and evil must be distinguished between, in our world and in God to begin with. Sin/evil is inherently opposed to God even if He allows it to occur, caused by the abuse of the gift of free will possessed by created beings, for a time and for His purposes. Ostensibly so that we may, directly and viscerally, learn a lesson the hard way: that sin is wrong, God is right, and good, and we need Him, direct communion with Him, desperately in order for good to prevail in our selves and in our world.

Man's "problem", his imperfection, is simply that he's not God who, alone, is perfect in the absolute sense. And that very inherent and unavoidable imperfection is the ingredient that, when combined with free will, can allow man to foolishly think he's equal to God first of all. Adam actually thought he could go it alone; by denying God's authority he effectively denied His godhood, becoming his own "god". All other sin flowed from that first act of disobedience, that separation from the author and creator of our souls, of our very existence, with Whom man must be freely subjugated to and in communion with in order for righteousness to truly and fully reign. And love, as in the greatest commandment, is the only authentic way that such obedience can occur; love defines righteousness, in fact. And patiently bringing us to that point, to that light, to love as He does, has been God's whole purpose since the Fall, since before the Fall, since before creation IOW. Adam, IMO, most likely possesses it by now. It begins here on earth with faith, reversing Adam's lack of belief in God. When the time was ripe Jesus came to restore that very faith, by fully revealing the true God to us so that we may believe, and so be reconciled and ultimately enter a communion of love with, God the Trinity.

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I believe man was created a innocent sinner, thats why he sinned.

Brightfame52 said:

I believe man was created a innocent sinner, thats why he sinned.

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Alright-sounds somewhat like a contradiction in terms to me-but ok-I understand what you're getting at with that concept. Thank you