WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

The Liturgist said:

To be blunt, what you are telling me seems to be a man made tradition. Especially given your rejection of the Nicene Creed, which is completely Biblical.

Click to expand...

Now Liturgist that is not true at all. Perhaps you have a misunderstanding dear friend? Where did I ever tell you I reject the Nicene Creed? If I never said such things why are you pretending that I have? I have only shared the scriptures with you. So what is it in the scriptures that have been shared with you that you disagree with? These are God's Words not mine and we should believe and follow them as they supersede man-made traditions and creeds. Therefore if our creeds and traditions are biblical then follow them if they are not who should we believe and follow God or man? *Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Romans 3:4. Sunday worship is a teaching and traditions of men that has led many to break God's 4th commandment. There is not a single scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday of the first day of the week as a holy day of rest. We are told in the scriptures to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not *2 Corinthians 13:5. It is the many that are traveling the broad way who reject God's Word that will be lost according to the scriptures in Matthew 7:13-14. So the question we should all be asking ourselves dear friend is who do we believe and follow; God or man?

The Liturgist said:

You can’t read the Bible without interpreting it. Also, reading it is not a sacrament; it is not a prerequisite to salvation; baptism, communion and repentance are what saves us by demonstrating our faith and uniting us to the Body of Christ. A qualified missionary who can tell the Gospel to the people in their own language is all you need, and it is all the church had until around 50-60 AD when Mark wrote his Gospel. St. Paul did most of his preaching without a written Gospel, as did St. Peter and St. John, who wrote his Gospel some time after the Synoptics, and the other apostles. St. James the Great was martyred before any of the NT had been completed.

And even then, most churches did not have a complete Bible until the fourth century. Syriac speaking Christians evangelized by St. Thomas had to make do with either a lost, non-Gnostic original version of the Gospel of Thomas which may or may not have ever existed, and the Diatessaron, a ponderous, poorly structured “Gospel Harmony” by Tatian. It wasn’t until the Peshitta in the fourth century that they got a proper Bible, but by that time, the Church of the East and the Patriarch of Antioch were collectively the largest church in terms of geographical territory. The Copts did not get scriptures and a liturgy in their language until St. Cyril in the 5th century.

Click to expand...

Actually according to the scriptures faith in God's Word is indeed a prerequisite to salvation; baptism, communion and repentance because without God's Word there is no knowledge in regards to anything of the above and without believing God's Word there can be no action leading to repentance, confession of sins, baptism, communion and salvation. As it is written Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Without faith in God's Word it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 because whatsoever is not of faith in God's Word is sin according to the scriptures *Romans 14:23. As it is also written; we are saved by grace through faith and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 5:4; Romans 3:31; Romans 10:17

LoveGodsWord wrote: Actually according to the scriptures faith in God's Word is indeed a prerequisite to salvation; baptism, communion and repentance because without God's Word there is no knowledge in regards to anything of the above and without believing God's Word there can be no action leading to repentance, confession of sins, baptism, communion and salvation. As it is written Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Without faith in God's Word it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 because whatsoever is not of faith in God's Word is sin according to the scriptures *Romans 14:23. As it is also written; we are saved by grace through faith and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 5:4; Romans 3:31; Romans 10:17

Click to expand...

Your response here...

The Liturgist said:

If I understand you correctly (if by God’s Word you are referring to the Bible and not Jesus Christ) and frankly, I hope I don’t, that you mean to say one must have access to the Bible in order to have sufficient faith to intellectually comprehend of the meaning of baptism and the eucharist, I find this is an abhorrent doctrine, alien to the scriptures, which effectively damns the very young and the mentally disabled and the large number of Christians without access to a Bible.

Click to expand...

The problem your facing right from the start here dear friend is that your trying to separate God from His Words. Yes Jesus is the living Word of God according to the scriptures in John 1:1-4; 14 but all scripture (the bible) is the recorded spoken Words of God that come from God given to mankind from God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness *2 Timothy 3:16. We cannot separate the living word of God from His Spoken word recorded for mankind in the written Word of God. To do so would be to deny the very faith upon which God's Church is built. If there is no Word dear friend there is no faith if there is no faith there is no salvation because we are only saved by Gods grace through faith in God's Word according to the scriptures *Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:16; 1 John 5:4 as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Now let me ask you a question to help the discussion. How can you know what sin, repentance, baptism and the eucharist is if someone does not tell you the written Word of God or you do not read that written Word of God? - You cannot. So you see before we have even started addressing your post here in detail it has already fallen apart. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God according to the scriptures. You cannot separate the Living word of God from His spoken Word that has been recorded for all mankind in the written Words of God (the bible).

The Liturgist said:

We know that can’t be right, because Christ stirs up the faith in those who can’t access Him textually; do you think the woman with the issue of blood, or the centurion whose daughter had died, or the Samaritan woman, or the others saved by Him before and after His ascension, had access to a Bible

Click to expand...

The question you should be asking yourself here dear friend is what does the women with the issue of blood, the Samaritan woman and the centurion all have in common? They believed God's Word they believed Jesus was the son of God and they believed what he said fulfilling the scriptures "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

The Liturgist said:

But since it is not entirely clear what you mean other than disagreeing with my post, I am compelled to point out that you engaged in not only a severe misinterpretation, but also a severe misquotation of the text you wrote. Firstly, you misquoted Romans 10:17 as John 10:16, but this was providential, for John 10:16 proves my point that the Word of God is Jesus Christ (John 1:1-18, the Only Begotten Son, Begotten not Made, Begotten of the Father before all Ages. John 10:16 not only does not say what you inadvertantly claimed it does, but it obviously refers to the Word of God as Jesus Christ. Indeed, it is in fact Christ talking about his impending crucifixion in which he gave his life as a ransom for many. and prophesying his resurrection:
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Click to expand...

Firstly where did I misquote Romans 10:17 as John 10:16 and how does John 10:16 prove anything your saying? John 10:16 says And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and THEY SHALL HEAR MY VOICE (the Word of God); and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. I would say these scriptures further support what I have already been sharing with you. You cannot separate God from his Word dear friend as God's Word comes from God and is given to mankind so that we can believe and follow them which is what John 10:26-27 is talking about a little further on when Jesus says; But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep HEAR MY VOICE (the Word of God), AND I KNOW THEM AND THEY FOLLOW ME. The previous post shared with you dear friend because you made the mistake of claiming that the hearing or reading the God's Word is not a prerequisite to salvation; baptism, communion and repentance. I simply provided the scriptures showing that this teaching is not biblical showing that according to the scriptures faith in God's Word is indeed a prerequisite to salvation because that is where faith comes from leading to following what God's Word says so without God's Word there can be no baptism, no communion and and no repentance because without God's Word whether spoken or written there is no knowledge in regards to any of these things and without and without a knowledge of these things we cannot believe them because it is knowledge *Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:2-8; John 8:31-32; Philippians 1:9; Philippians 3:8; Colossians 1:9-10; Colossians 2:3; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:18; Luke 1:77; Luke 11:52; Acts of the Apostles 17:13; Romans 1:28; 1 Corinthians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 15:54; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Corinthians 6:4-6; 2 Corinthians 8:7; 2 Corinthians 10:5; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 2:20. So it is God's spoken and recorded written Word dear friend that leads to knowledge and knowledge that leads to faith that leads to action according to the scriptures just provided. There can be no action leading to repentance, confession of sins, baptism, communion and salvation without a knowledge of Gods Word as shown above because as it is written faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Without faith in God's Word it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 because whatsoever is not of faith in God's Word is sin according to the scriptures *Romans 14:23. As it is also written; we are saved by grace through faith and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 John 5:4; Romans 3:31; Romans 10:17. So no dear friend even though I am not talking about John 10:16 this does not disagree with the scriptures that have been provided that it is through the spoken or written Word of God that faith and salvation comes from Romans 10:17, neither does it say that we can have salvation without God's Word as the scriptures in John 10:26-27 make this very clear that God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Your mistake here in your interpretation of the scriptures is that your trying to separate God from His Word when it is Gods spoken or recorded written Word that leads to faith and salvation *John 8:31-36; John 17:17.

The Liturgist said:

The Word of God as I have said repeatedly is Jesus Christ, but even if one were to accept the existence of a written word in addition to the Only Begotten Son and Word of God, which I see no reason to do because throughout the scriptures they are called “Scriptures,” and John 1 doesn’t speak of a “written Word,” one would still have to concede that the previous pericope refers to pur Lord and Savior, the Incarnate Word of God, Jesus Christ, because a Bible cannot lay down its life nor take it up again, and the Bible is created and does not have a Father, being an inanimate object, a collection of holy books written by holy men under divine inspiration, assembled by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church we confess in the Nicene Creed, and the Bible also never did lay down its life and take it up again. That would be Jesus Christ, our Lord and God.

Click to expand...

Jesus is indeed the living Word of God that has given us the written Word of God. The written Word of God is the recorded Word of God according to the scriptures. I have only provided scripture in our conversations here in this thread all you have done here is seek to deny God's written Words with your words that are not God's Word seeking to put doubt in the minds of others in regards to the written Word of God. I do without reserve reject your teachings as unbiblical and in error for the reasons given earlier that you did not address.

As posted earlier the old testament and new testament scriptures demonstrate very clearly that before the written Word of God there was the "spoken" Word of God. Pretty much all through the old and new testament scriptures we see that it is God's Word that is being revealed to all mankind and God giving His instructions to mankind from Genesis right through to Revelations. The beginning of the book of Genesis sets the scene per-creation where God's Word is first revealed to mankind where it is written; And God said, Let there be light: and there was light *Genesis 1:3 finishing in Revelations where Jesus says " I Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star and the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whoever will, let him take the water of life freely...." Revelation 22:16-20.

With everything in between Genesis and Revelation being God's Word spoken directly to mankind in God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:1-17 or the spoken Word of God directly given to mankind through His prophets. Whatever way you want to spin it, the scriptures are still God's Word given to mankind from God which Jesus also agrees when he says man does not live by break alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God in Matthew 4:4 where he is quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3. Jesus therefore is calling the scriptures "the Word of God".

All scripture we are told is God breathed in 2 Timothy 3:16. So it really makes no difference if we have the "spoken" Word of God or the "written" recorded Word of God, it is still God's Word and is to be believed and followed according to the scriptures as our salvation is only in Gods' Word as we believe and follow it *John 17:17; John 8:31-36; Romans 10:16; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 3:31. There is just too many scripture examples in the old and new testament to list here that are directly applicable to being the Word of God that they would simply take too long to list and all these scriptures disagree with your claims above.

I am sorry dear friend but I reject your theory that the scriptures are not God's Word. Jesus certainly believed they were when quoting Deuteronomy 8:3 and stated our salvation is only found in believing and following what God's Word says *Matthew 7:21-23; John 8:31-36; John 17:17; 1 Peter 1:23. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4. To deny Gods' Word is to deny the very foundation of our salvation according to the scriptures for without faith is it impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *Romans 14:23

The Liturgist said:

But you were in fact quoting Romans 10:17, and not John 10:16, and you misquoted Romans 10:17 as well, deleting the text I have underlined starting in Romans 10:15, a serious omission which gave the false impression Romans 10:17 was talking about “written faith,” implying a connection to Scripture that is simply absent in text.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Once again, when we read this in context (something I have been falsely accused of not doing too many times in this thread), it proves my point that reading the Bible is not necessary for salvation; it describes the Gospel as something that is preached, for as I pointed out, when St. Paul wrote these epistles, there was no written Gospel.

Click to expand...

Not really dear friend. Are you are minister and seriously trying to teach here that we can have faith without a knowledge of the truth of God's Word? as shown earlier in *Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:2-8; John 8:31-32; Philippians 1:9; Philippians 3:8; Colossians 1:9-10; Colossians 2:3; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:18; Luke 1:77; Luke 11:52; Acts of the Apostles 17:13; Romans 1:28; 1 Corinthians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 15:54; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Corinthians 6:4-6; 2 Corinthians 8:7; 2 Corinthians 10:5; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 2:20? Now of course context always matters but the fact is that context here does not change the meaning of Romans 10:17 that says faith comes by hearing (hearing what? Hearing a knowledge of the truth. What is truth? God's Word - John 6:63) and hearing by the Word of God. So no matter what way you want to spin it the scripture always lead back to the Word of God that gives us the knowledge of the truth of God's Word (John 17:17; John 6:63; John 8:31-36; Romans 10:17). There is no faith without God's Word dear friend. This is what the scriptures teach but it seams you do not believe these scriptures shared with you.

The Liturgist said:

Now let us move on to Hebrews 11:06, you claimed this said:

Click to expand...

It seems you are still trying to argue that you can have faith without a knowledge of the truth of God's Word when it is a knowledge of the truth of God's Word that leads us to faith as shown to you already in *Romans 10:17; Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:2-8; John 8:31-32; Philippians 1:9; Philippians 3:8; Colossians 1:9-10; Colossians 2:3; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:18; Luke 1:77; Luke 11:52; Acts of the Apostles 17:13; Romans 1:28; 1 Corinthians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 15:54; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Corinthians 6:4-6; 2 Corinthians 8:7; 2 Corinthians 10:5; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 2:20?. These of course are God's Words disagreeing with your claims that we can have faith without a knowledge of Gods' Word. These scriptures of course agree with Romans 10:17 Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

prodromos said:

It's a yes/no question. Your refusal to give a direct answer strongly suggests you do not accept the Nicene-Constantinopolian creed of which acceptance is a prerequisite for posting in the Christians-only sections of CF.

Click to expand...

For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgment day. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for he giveth not the Spirit by measure but many do not hear when they close their eyes to see and their ears to hear. Do you know these scriptures dear friend? If you do what do you think they mean?

The Liturgist said:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. This is correct, but again read out of context. Combined with Hebrews 11:01-05 prove my point:

Click to expand...

Not really dear friend. We are talking faith now to let's link the scriptures together. I would simply ask you the question how does any of the context scriptures shown here change the meaning of "but without faith it is impossible to please God" - Hebrews 11:6 when the scriptures already tell us the "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"? So any faith or belief we have comes by the spoken or written recorded Word of God (scripture) right?

The Liturgist said:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Click to expand...

So nope, none of these scriptures change the meaning of Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him... That being said then without faith it is impossible to please God and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. So which ever way you want to look at it faith comes from a knowledge of God's Word. There is no faith without the knowledge of God's spoken or recorded written Word according to the scriptures *Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:2-8; John 8:31-32; Philippians 1:9; Philippians 3:8; Colossians 1:9-10; Colossians 2:3; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:18; Luke 1:77; Luke 11:52; Acts of the Apostles 17:13; Romans 1:28; 1 Corinthians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 15:54; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Corinthians 6:4-6; 2 Corinthians 8:7; 2 Corinthians 10:5; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 2:20. These of course are God's Words disagreeing with your interpretation of the scriptures my prayer is that you might receive these Words that are God's Word not my words.

One more to come..

The Liturgist said:

The Word of God, Jesus Christ created all things (John 1:2), or as Hebrews elegantly expresses it, “frames the worlds.” Scripture alone cannot do that. And Hebrews 11:06 promises faith in God will come to whoever diligently seeks him, without any mention of literacy or having access to a Bible as a prerequisite.

Click to expand...

Genesis 1:31; Genesis 2:1-3 gives us the account of How Jesus created all things and the scriptures are very clear dear friend that God created all things by the spoken Word of God we only know this through the recorded written Words of God. If there was no recorded written Word of God then how can you know that Jesus created all things? Can you see how your argument makes absolutely no sense? Your trying to argue we can have faith without having a knowledge of the truth of God's Word when it is the spoken Word of God or the recorded written Word of God that leads to faith as it is written Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. Your error is in thinking you can separate God from God's Word when it is the Word of God that comes from God whose Words they are.

The Liturgist said:

Lastly, your quote of Romans 14:23 is irrelevant, because as I said, Holy Baptism is the regenerative demonstration of our faith that unites us to the Body of Christ. It washes away sin, as does the Eucharist, when received worthily, and which also united us with the Body of Christ (Corinthians 10-11).

Click to expand...

God's Word is never irrelevant dear friend and neither is Romans 14:23 to our discussion. God's Word teaches us that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God *Romans 10:17. God's Word teaches that we cannot know God's Word unless we have a knowledge of God's Word in There is no faith without the knowledge of God's spoken or recorded written Word according to the scriptures *Ephesians 4:13; 2 Peter 1:2-8; John 8:31-32; Philippians 1:9; Philippians 3:8; Colossians 1:9-10; Colossians 2:3; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:18; Luke 1:77; Luke 11:52; Acts of the Apostles 17:13; Romans 1:28; 1 Corinthians 1:5; 1 Corinthians 15:54; 2 Corinthians 2:14; 2 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Corinthians 6:4-6; 2 Corinthians 8:7; 2 Corinthians 10:5; Hebrews 10:26; 2 Peter 2:20. God's Word says without faith that comes from God's spoken and recorded written Words it is impossible to please God and Romans 14:23 says whatsoever is not of faith that comes from a knowledge of God's Word is sin. So who should we believe here? For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures (Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29). You are way off track here dear friend if you think we can have God's salvation without God's Word when there is no faith without it as shown in the scriptures here that we have been sharing together.

Hope this helps.

prodromos said:

Since you refuse to answer a simple yes/no question, it is safe to assume that your answer is no.

Click to expand...

I do not think it would be safe at all to assume something I have never said do you dear friend? Perhaps you may wish to go back and re-read my posts which are not saying what your suggesting and assuming they are.

JulieB67 said:

I think we need to really take the Hebrew texts in context. This really can even go back to chapter 3. We know there were no chapters in the manuscripts. And these were letters that Paul wrote. I think nowadays with chapters and such it's very easy to lose context. In chapter 3 Paul is stressing the fact that "today" we need to hear his voice and not harden our hearts with disbelief as they did in the OT (which we know are ensamples to us)

Hebrews 3:15 "While it is said, "To day if ye will hear His voice, harden not you hearts, as in the provocation."

He takes us all the way back to the Israelites coming out of Egypt.

Hebrews 3:16 "For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses."

Hebrews 3:17 "But with whom was He grieved forty years: was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?"


Hebrews 3:18 "And to whom sware He that they should not enter into His rest, but to them that believed not?"

Hebrews 3:19 "So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Paul is continuing this train of thought in chapter 4,

Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

Hebrews 4:2 "For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said, "As I have sworn in My wrath, if they shall enter into My rest:" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."

He's talking about anyone who believes enters into rest.

Hebrews 4:4 "For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, "And God did rest the seventh day from all His works."

Hebrews 4:5 "And in this place again, "If they shall enter into My rest."

Hebrews 4:6 "Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:"

This is an example of what he was talking about in chapter 3 with people not hearing his voice and hardening their hearts in disbelief as in the days of the Israelites coming out of Egypt.

Hebrews 4:7 "Again, He limiteth a certain day, saying in David, "To day," after so long a time; as it is said, "to day if ye will hear His voice, harden not your hearts."

Hebrews 4:8 "For if Jesus had given them rest, then would He not afterward have spoken of another day."

We are talking about Joshua of the OT here in this specific verse. We know that because we know Jesus Christ has given us rest (Matthew 11:28 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.") And going back to verse 1 it's his rest we must enter. We also know this is part of the subject of chapter 3.

This vese is in context to verse 7. This is talking about Joshua taking the people into the promised land. If he (a man) had given them rest, would he not have spoken of another day? They had to move into the promised land. There was no waiting on another day.

Hebrews 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." We know this means Sabbath.

In the next verse it's Christ rest that we must enter in.

Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His." We also know this is the rest we must enter. There is even an example of us ceasing our works once we enter into his rest as God ceased from his.

Hebrews 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, least any man fall after the same example of unbelief." As in the days of the wilderness.

We are to be in his rest 24/7. How can we only be in rest one day of the week if we're in Christ?

Edited to add I don't see any context in either of the 2 chapters that would lead us to believe Paul is talking about a certain day of the week. He's saying the opposite- today, if we hear his voice with belief, we can enter into Christ's rest. If we wait for another day it might be one day too late.

Click to expand...

Hi Julie, thanks for sharing with us. You mention here you cannot see the in the context that Hebrews is talking about the Sabbath? Lets add the context back then which might help here as Gods rest; His Rest of My Rest is in reference to Gods' rest which is the "seventh day Sabbath rest" that we enter into by believing and following God's Word. Let's highlight the context here as Hebrews 4:1-5 defines "God's Rest; His Rest; My Rest" as the seventh day Sabbath of creation.

HEBREWS 4 DEFINES GOD'S REST AS THE SABBATH AND OUR REST IS IN BELIEVING GOD'S WORD

HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], FOR TO US WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED, AS WELL AS TO THEM: BUT THE WORD PREACHED DID NOT PROFIT THEM, NOT BEING MIXED WITH FAITH IN THEM THAT HEARD IT.
[3], FOR WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE OF THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: Context of Hebrews 4:1-5 is to defining God's rest from the “seventh day sabbath rest” of creation (v4-5) and those who believe and follow God's word [the gospel] enter into God's Sabbath rest as God did on the “seventh day of the week”. Context is God's “seventh day Sabbath rest” and those who believe or do not believe God's word do not enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, HE ALSO HAS CEASED FROM HIS OWN WORKS, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

[11], LET US LABOR THEREFORE TO ENTER INTO THAT REST (God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST through believing Gods Word - the gospel), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (HEBREWS 3).

.............

CONCLUSION: Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 are talking about both the Gospel rest of believing and following God's word; v29 Learn of me; v30 my burden (doing) is light. This agrees with Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it and God’s rest they enter into which is the seventh day Sabbath rest of Genesis 2:1-3. This agrees with Hebrews 4:1-5 where the topic is not our rest but God’s rest from the seventh day after finishing creation on the seventh day Sabbath in reference to His Rest v1; My Rest v3-5with v4 saying For he spoke in a certain place (Genesis 2:1-3) of the seventh day on this wise, and God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Hebrews 4:9-11 showing that it remains for the people of God to enter into God’s rest and continue keeping the seventh day Sabbath by believing and following Gods’ Word – the gospel (the Word of God).

Hope this is helpful.

The Liturgist said:

I would reply, but the content of my last response has apparently been grossly misinterpreted, so I see no point in continuing this debate, since the people I am debating with are convinced worship on Sunday is a great sin, even if one also keeps the Sabbath by worshipping on that day as well, despite all the verses that prove the contrary, including “pray without ceasing.”

That my replies are never understood, and without wishing to seem petty, but that I would be called “dear friend” and then have my competence as a minister questioned in the very next sentence is hurtful to the point that I have to end this conversation, lest I lose my temper or otherwise succumb to the passions, as @prodromos will understand, particularly as I prepare for the Eucharist.

May the Blessing of God Almighty, the Father,+ the Son,+ and the Holy Ghost,x be poured upon you in all your days, and remain with you, now and always and unto the ages of ages.

Click to expand...

To be honest dear friend, I did not think you would respond to my posts and the scriptures shared with you that may disagree with you. I was hoping you might but it is ok if you do not want to. These of course are God's Words not mine so I pray you may be blessed with them and thank you very much for the discussion here. If there has been something I have said that you believe I have misunderstood you saying please feel free to let me know or clarify what your saying so there is no misunderstandings between us. I believe I have been careful to read your posts and to respond to them section by section and scripture by scripture, so all I can do now is to leave our discussion of the scriptures in God's hands and pray you may be blessed in our interaction. Thank you for the discussion it was nice talking to you.

May God bless you as you seek and follow Him through His Word.