Can Satan cast out Satan?

A_Thinker · Feb 12, 2021

grafted branch said:
Notice the 1st beast in Revelation 13:5 was given power to continue 42 months and in Revelation 13:4 that power was given to him by the dragon. Would you agree that when this power left the 1st beast that it could be referred to as fire coming down from heaven?

No ... I don't see any particular correlation ...

Lawrence87 · Feb 12, 2021

The way I understand this is that a priest is granted certain powers by virtue of that office that work irrespective of whether you are a good or a bad priest. So you could become a priest and perform an exorcism in Jesus' name and it would work. If you were to dishonour the priesthood let's say by misusing Church funds or something like that, this would not invalidate all the baptisms that you performed etc. But it may very well cause Christ to declare that he never knew you. I could very well be wrong in my understanding but that is what I have heard.

Carl Emerson · Feb 12, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
One only need to watch an extreme deliverance ministry to question its authenticity. Be blessed.

Could you kindly explain what you mean?

misput · Feb 13, 2021

It helps to understand if we realize satan is a metaphor or figurative for mans fleshly nature. As pointed out earlier in this thread, Jesus addressing Peter as satan.

Maria Billingsley · Feb 13, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Could you kindly explain what you mean?

People can claim they are exorcists and can claim to be possessed but in both cases they are fake. Many deliverance ministries can be identified as being merely a show to amuse the weak in faith. Satan is the deciever so he can orchestrate such a thing to stumble the weak.

grafted branch · Feb 13, 2021

misput said:
It helps to understand if we realize satan is a metaphor or figurative for mans fleshly nature. As pointed out earlier in this thread, Jesus addressing Peter as satan.

I agree with you here, Satan entered Judas but I think nearly everyone would agree that Satan did not enter Peter. However Satan did want to sift Peter as wheat so perhaps Peter was being sifted when Jesus referred to him as Satan.

Do you know of any other instances where Satan is used figuratively as man’s nature?

Carl Emerson · Feb 13, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
People can claim they are exorcists and can claim to be possessed but in both cases they are fake. Many deliverance ministries can be identified as being merely a show to amuse the weak in faith. Satan is the deciever so he can orchestrate such a thing to stumble the weak.

Yes I agree with this - there is also the genuine, but this gets less publicity.

Maria Billingsley · Feb 13, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
Yes I agree with this - there is also the genuine, but this gets less publicity.

Unfortunate , as Jesus Christ of Nazareth and His Apostles received much publicity for their genuine work.

Edward Shaw · Feb 14, 2021

Can you kick yourself out of your own house? If so, then who or what is left in the house to mind it? How is that different from just walking away? If a householder be in two places, both in the house and out of it, then can the house be said to be divided against itself? After all, one is in the house, the other on the outside. If a man should banish his sinful nature, then it would appear the house is in order, not divided. We need more information to resolve this apparent mystery.

brinny · Feb 14, 2021

bling said:
Jesus called Peter "satan", so was Peter literally satan or just doing what pleased satan?

Jesus was speaking to Satan, who was behind what Peter said. Jesus was not calling Peter "Satan".

grafted branch · Feb 14, 2021

Edward Shaw said:
If a householder be in two places, both in the house and out of it, then can the house be said to be divided against itself? After all, one is in the house, the other on the outside.

So that leads into the question of whether Satan is omnipresent or not. In Mark 4:15 after the word is sown by the way side; Satan comes immediately and takes it away. So this indicates that Satan is either omnipresent (or at least omnipresent in those who are by the way side) or that the word “Satan” is being used in a figurative way.

I personally think Satan is used figuratively in several places in the scriptures so I would say that figuratively Satan can be both in the house and outside the house.

The Liturgist · Feb 16, 2021

Maria Billingsley said:
One only need to watch an extreme deliverance ministry to question its authenticity. Be blessed.

A what?

The Liturgist · Feb 16, 2021

grafted branch said:
So that leads into the question of whether Satan is omnipresent or not. In Mark 4:15 after the word is sown by the way side; Satan comes immediately and takes it away. So this indicates that Satan is either omnipresent (or at least omnipresent in those who are by the way side) or that the word “Satan” is being used in a figurative way.

I personally think Satan is used figuratively in several places in the scriptures so I would say that figuratively Satan can be both in the house and outside the house.

Not omnipresent, but “the prince of powers of the air” and a spiritual being, since he is a fallen angel. The demons can move very rapidly and trick people into believing they have clairvoyance on account of this, according to a major Orthodox monastic text.

Carl Emerson · Feb 16, 2021

I have seen the authority of Jesus in action - not showy - no contest - just a firm word effect a powerful release from the demonic. This cannot be taught - it is a gift that few have.

I have also seem modern efforts to teach deliverance come unstuck big time.

It is not a ministry to be coveted - genuine encounter with the demonic is not always pleasant.

coronawatching · Feb 16, 2021

grafted branch said:
Satan’s kingdom will not stand, so from Matthew 12:26 it would appear that Satan can cast out Satan. Also Matthew 7:22 has many that cast out devils in thy name and yet Jesus never knew them. However in Mark 9:38-41 the person who cast out devils seems to be for Jesus even though he didn’t follow Jesus.

So I think Satan can cast out Satan but would like to know what others think. Are there any other scriptures that should be considered or any verses that show Satan cannot cast out Satan?

Yes, to make the person seven times worse later.

grafted branch · Feb 16, 2021

coronawatching said:
Yes, to make the person seven times worse later.

Would you say the house of the strong man in Matthew 12:29 is the same house in Matthew 12:44?

grafted branch · Feb 16, 2021

The Liturgist said:
Not omnipresent, but “the prince of powers of the air” and a spiritual being, since he is a fallen angel. The demons can move very rapidly and trick people into believing they have clairvoyance on account of this, according to a major Orthodox monastic text.

I’ve been studying this and haven’t come to a complete understanding yet. I see both views as having a high probability of being correct, Satan being referred to as a fallen angel/spirit being and the view that he is being referred to as the Adamic nature.

The Adamic nature view

The Adamic nature is a possibility for the word “air” in Ephesians 2:2, so Satan would be the prince of the power of this nature. Also when looking at 2 Corinthians 4:4 (the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not) I see this as the Adamic nature that has blinded the mind. So when Mark 4:15 says Satan comes immediately and takes it away; I view this as happening through the Adamic nature and Satan being referred to as the Adamic nature.

The spirit being view

When Satan is viewed as a fallen angel and spirit being that is currently active in this world, it can create the view that we are in the Tartarus when combined with Revelation 18:1-4 and 2 Peter 2:4.

2 Peter 2:4 says the angels that had sinned are cast into hell<5020> (Tartarus), reserved unto judgment, and Revelation 18:2 has Babylon falling and becoming the hold of every foul spirit. Revelation 18:4 says come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Since every foul spirit would include those in 2 Peter 2:4 and Babylon falls first before “my people” are called out of her, then the conclusion is drawn that we are currently in Tartarus.

What is the Orthodox view on us currently being in Tartarus?

Jaxxi · Feb 16, 2021

grafted branch said:
Satan’s kingdom will not stand, so from Matthew 12:26 it would appear that Satan can cast out Satan. Also Matthew 7:22 has many that cast out devils in thy name and yet Jesus never knew them. However in Mark 9:38-41 the person who cast out devils seems to be for Jesus even though he didn’t follow Jesus.

So I think Satan can cast out Satan but would like to know what others think. Are there any other scriptures that should be considered or any verses that show Satan cannot cast out Satan?

In essence yes because he is where he is by his own doing. If he had never turned on God and mated with humans, creating a deplorable race of beings, he would be i heaven today. Basically as with us, he did it to himself. He knew what would happen. He knew that God would not stand for his rebellion yet he did it anyways so he will get what he deserves.

coronawatching · Feb 16, 2021

grafted branch said:
Would you say the house of the strong man in Matthew 12:29 is the same house in Matthew 12:44?

A house is a person's body. Don't think he was talking about the particular person he just freed from demons in 12: 44.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Feb 16, 2021

Christ bound the strong man.

Can Satan cast out Satan?

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