OCD Vows

dl_17 · Feb 13, 2021

Hi all, before I say anything about this new "episode" of OCD, perhaps I should clarify what happened prior to this. I've made a thread on this, but I'll summarise it anyway: I've been getting intrusive vow thoughts, mainly about celibacy and abstaining from marriage, which are things that I ABSOLUTELY VALUE, especially because I'm a young adult. Naturally, I want and perhaps NEED a companion. I want to start a family later on in life. I trust that God knows this. The bigger picture is quoted at the end of this post.

This new episode is so much more debilitating. Basically, because of the intrusive vow thoughts, I was living each day like a battle of their own. I felt miserable. However, there was a rare moment when I got happy because I received a compliment. With the joy, I almost forgot about the problem I had. HOWEVER, thoughts went on and it somehow landed on promising not to marry.

Here's the problem: with OCD, my memory of what happened has become very distorted, I'm not sure what really happened during that incident. There's so much uncertainty, it's debilitating. I'm pretty sure I tried to resist it like "I don't accept this thought in the name of Jesus Christ!" under my breath, but I just can't be sure. I can only remember 2 things that happened with confidence:

1) Right after the vow thought, I had this inner dialogue:
"Is this gonna be the next big thing?"
"No it isn't"
"Afterall, you tried resisting it, doesn't that mean you don't want it?" ---- This one seems a little blurry, I'm not sure if this one happened

2) Just a bit after the "incident", the same intrusive vow came again, and I repeated "I don't accept this thought in the name of Jesus Christ!" 2-3 times.

From my explanation, it's probably already very clear that I don't want to make these promises, but I just can be sure. I know that God knows my heart, but the thing is, I don't know my heart! I know for sure that I don't want to make these promises, but I don't know what went on in my head during that incident. I'm afraid that my heart actually wanted it at that moment.

I would love to know that I didn't mean it, but I just can't make this assumption, so I've sort of given up trying to know whether or not I made that promise, and moved on to seeking forgiveness. This is where fear and scriptures come in.

Vows are mostly pointed out in the Old Testament. There's a lot of "Pay what you vow" things going on, I'm sure everyone with the same theme of OCD can relate. These ones are frightening. The ones that give hope are Leviticus 5:4-5, Numbers 30 and Leviticus 27. Numbers 30 is a little bit unique and less popular, as I am not a female, but there are a few people that say that because we are the bride of Christ, Jesus can annul our vows. Anyway, these scriptures give me the chance to confess the making of the rash vow as sin, and hence by confessing and repenting I can be released, and that the atonement was already paid for by Jesus Christ. Now in the New Testament, there's a lot of things pointing to forgiveness and freedom, like Galatians 5:1, 1 John 1:9, John 8:36, and so on. Because they are not directly referring to vows, I can't seem to make the connection.

As with many other OCD sufferers, my compulsion is to not only look at scriptures, but also sermons and the internet. I've probably browsed AND read through all 12-18 pages of google searches regarding rash vows. It's very divided. Some people stress on paying what you vow, some people have more empathy, saying that it is FREEDOM that Jesus granted us. I'm not sure if the first view is being legalistic, or the second view is leaning towards hyper-grace. This is extremely confusing. I've asked a lot of pastors online, and they say that I'm being too legalistic and perfectionistic, that I should simply rest in God's forgiveness and grace. But, like any other OCD sufferers, this just doesn't provide enough assurance!

Yes, integrity is important, but the problem is I don't even know if I made the vow in the first place! Moreover, I can't just live life assuming that I MADE the vow, especially about abstaining from marriage! It's a gift of life!

I've been spinning and spinning and spinning, all I find is a great confusion, and I end up imagining the worst-case scenario. I'm gradually

Can my rash vows be forgiven and annulled? How can I move on? What should I do?

Here's my previous thread

Mari17 · Feb 13, 2021

dl_17 said:
Hi all, before I say anything about this new "episode" of OCD, perhaps I should clarify what happened prior to this. I've made a thread on this, but I'll summarise it anyway: I've been getting intrusive vow thoughts, mainly about celibacy and abstaining from marriage, which are things that I ABSOLUTELY VALUE, especially because I'm a young adult. Naturally, I want and perhaps NEED a companion. I want to start a family later on in life. I trust that God knows this. The bigger picture is quoted at the end of this post.

This new episode is so much more debilitating. Basically, because of the intrusive vow thoughts, I was living each day like a battle of their own. I felt miserable. However, there was a rare moment when I got happy because I received a compliment. With the joy, I almost forgot about the problem I had. HOWEVER, thoughts went on and it somehow landed on promising not to marry.

Here's the problem: with OCD, my memory of what happened has become very distorted, I'm not sure what really happened during that incident. There's so much uncertainty, it's debilitating. I'm pretty sure I tried to resist it like "I don't accept this thought in the name of Jesus Christ!" under my breath, but I just can't be sure. I can only remember 2 things that happened with confidence:

1) Right after the vow thought, I had this inner dialogue:
"Is this gonna be the next big thing?"
"No it isn't"
"Afterall, you tried resisting it, doesn't that mean you don't want it?" ---- This one seems a little blurry, I'm not sure if this one happened

2) Just a bit after the "incident", the same intrusive vow came again, and I repeated "I don't accept this thought in the name of Jesus Christ!" 2-3 times.

From my explanation, it's probably already very clear that I don't want to make these promises, but I just can be sure. I know that God knows my heart, but the thing is, I don't know my heart! I know for sure that I don't want to make these promises, but I don't know what went on in my head during that incident. I'm afraid that my heart actually wanted it at that moment.

I would love to know that I didn't mean it, but I just can't make this assumption, so I've sort of given up trying to know whether or not I made that promise, and moved on to seeking forgiveness. This is where fear and scriptures come in.

Vows are mostly pointed out in the Old Testament. There's a lot of "Pay what you vow" things going on, I'm sure everyone with the same theme of OCD can relate. These ones are frightening. The ones that give hope are Leviticus 5:4-5, Numbers 30 and Leviticus 27. Numbers 30 is a little bit unique and less popular, as I am not a female, but there are a few people that say that because we are the bride of Christ, Jesus can annul our vows. Anyway, these scriptures give me the chance to confess the making of the rash vow as sin, and hence by confessing and repenting I can be released, and that the atonement was already paid for by Jesus Christ. Now in the New Testament, there's a lot of things pointing to forgiveness and freedom, like Galatians 5:1, 1 John 1:9, John 8:36, and so on. Because they are not directly referring to vows, I can't seem to make the connection.

As with many other OCD sufferers, my compulsion is to not only look at scriptures, but also sermons and the internet. I've probably browsed AND read through all 12-18 pages of google searches regarding rash vows. It's very divided. Some people stress on paying what you vow, some people have more empathy, saying that it is FREEDOM that Jesus granted us. I'm not sure if the first view is being legalistic, or the second view is leaning towards hyper-grace. This is extremely confusing. I've asked a lot of pastors online, and they say that I'm being too legalistic and perfectionistic, that I should simply rest in God's forgiveness and grace. But, like any other OCD sufferers, this just doesn't provide enough assurance!

Yes, integrity is important, but the problem is I don't even know if I made the vow in the first place! Moreover, I can't just live life assuming that I MADE the vow, especially about abstaining from marriage! It's a gift of life!

I've been spinning and spinning and spinning, all I find is a great confusion, and I end up imagining the worst-case scenario. I'm gradually

Can my rash vows be forgiven and annulled? How can I move on? What should I do?

Here's my previous thread

I understand the confusion!! Here are some of my thoughts:
1. Fear of making unwanted vows/promises is a very common obsession. (Yes, I've had it before too!)
2. As with any obsession, this must be treated as OCD.
3. The way to treat it is to NOT DO YOUR COMPULSIONS. So, so hard. But vital.
4. Probably one of the most effective things is to say, "I'm not going to try to figure this out right now." It may help to set some sort of future mark to hold yourself accountable. For example, "I'm not going to try to figure this out or do any of my researching or other compulsions for three months." You can vary this as needed, obviously; the longer the better, but if you're having a really hard time you can make it a shorter amount of time.

So, what can your plan of action be?

dl_17 · Feb 14, 2021

Mari17 said:
I understand the confusion!! Here are some of my thoughts:
1. Fear of making unwanted vows/promises is a very common obsession. (Yes, I've had it before too!)
2. As with any obsession, this must be treated as OCD.
3. The way to treat it is to NOT DO YOUR COMPULSIONS. So, so hard. But vital.
4. Probably one of the most effective things is to say, "I'm not going to try to figure this out right now." It may help to set some sort of future mark to hold yourself accountable. For example, "I'm not going to try to figure this out or do any of my researching or other compulsions for three months." You can vary this as needed, obviously; the longer the better, but if you're having a really hard time you can make it a shorter amount of time.

So, what can your plan of action be?

Thank you, it's just extremely heartbreaking to know that God has plans for my life, but these "might have happened" vow bondage is restricting me from doing so. Moreover, reassurances aren't reassurances at all. The internet is very divided on this matter. Either it really is a controversial topic, or my OCD is neglecting the 100 supportive ones and amplifying the 1 condemning one. I know I shouldn't look for assurances which aren't even assuring at all, but I'm guessing you know how hard this is. There's something about OCD that's like an addiction, except you're addicted to something that doesn't benefit you even in the short term, addicted to the "anxiety", this is a very weird way to say it.

It's been on my mind 24/7 for some months already, can't shake it off. I know some people have it wore, but it is tormenting.

Mari17 · Feb 14, 2021

dl_17 said:
Thank you, it's just extremely heartbreaking to know that God has plans for my life, but these "might have happened" vow bondage is restricting me from doing so. Moreover, reassurances aren't reassurances at all. The internet is very divided on this matter. Either it really is a controversial topic, or my OCD is neglecting the 100 supportive ones and amplifying the 1 condemning one. I know I shouldn't look for assurances which aren't even assuring at all, but I'm guessing you know how hard this is. There's something about OCD that's like an addiction, except you're addicted to something that doesn't benefit you even in the short term, addicted to the "anxiety", this is a very weird way to say it.

It's been on my mind 24/7 for some months already, can't shake it off. I know some people have it wore, but it is tormenting.

I know how hard it is! And how easy it is to think in a distorted way, focusing only on what supports our obsession. And how "addicting" anxiety can be! So....your challenge is to back off from what your OCD wants you to do. How long do you think you could avoid your compulsions (e.g. researching and seeking reassurance) to start with?

dl_17 · Feb 15, 2021

How long? I've been spinning 24/7 I'm not sure of any plans. Please don't get me wrong, I do want to get out of this spiral. I think people who are scared of committing the unpardonable sin can have an "ultimate reassurance", which is "if you're worried about it, then you haven't committed it". As for vow OCDs, I think by knowing that we can be forgiven and freed from this bondage would have the same anchoring effect, in that we can gently redirect our negative thoughts to that. I'm not sure if this would work 100%, but I'm confident it will.

But yes, I agree, I must refrain from feeding this OCD, it's just extremely difficult. Even when I'm "distracted", the thought is ALWAYS at the back of my mind. It's just all extremely difficult. I'd like to have a day without worries. That would be really nice. If possible, I want to continue. However, since the "vow" affects my future greatly, it's debilitating. I'm a young adult with a ton of ambitions, one of it is to have a family in the future.

And something else, I really want to connect in my personal prayers. I'm just not getting it. I want to receive forgiveness, but it feels like I don't deserve it or He's not giving it. It's terribly confusing. I pray, pray pray, but it's still like this

Dendy · Feb 15, 2021

Let it go dear friend. Let all of those fears go. I've said I was going to do things and I didn't do them. I've heard a preacher say - Don't think we don't say a bad word when we hit our thumb with hammer. You are being entirely too hard on yourself.

Mari17 · Feb 15, 2021

dl_17 said:
How long? I've been spinning 24/7 I'm not sure of any plans. Please don't get me wrong, I do want to get out of this spiral. I think people who are scared of committing the unpardonable sin can have an "ultimate reassurance", which is "if you're worried about it, then you haven't committed it". As for vow OCDs, I think by knowing that we can be forgiven and freed from this bondage would have the same anchoring effect, in that we can gently redirect our negative thoughts to that. I'm not sure if this would work 100%, but I'm confident it will.

But yes, I agree, I must refrain from feeding this OCD, it's just extremely difficult. Even when I'm "distracted", the thought is ALWAYS at the back of my mind. It's just all extremely difficult. I'd like to have a day without worries. That would be really nice. If possible, I want to continue. However, since the "vow" affects my future greatly, it's debilitating. I'm a young adult with a ton of ambitions, one of it is to have a family in the future.

And something else, I really want to connect in my personal prayers. I'm just not getting it. I want to receive forgiveness, but it feels like I don't deserve it or He's not giving it. It's terribly confusing. I pray, pray pray, but it's still like this

Well, the thing with OCD is that while we're in the midst of an obsession, we don't FEEL reassured. I'd guess that for people with the blasphemy obsession, the "ultimate reassurance" you speak of is not reassuring for them, because their OCD brings up arguments that make them feel that the reassurance does not apply to them. The hard thing about OCD is that we have to work on treating our obsession BEFORE we feel reassured. Only after treating it do we start gaining clarity and seeing how we have been thinking in obsessive and distorted ways. OCD is, at its core, a lust for certainty, and we have to learn to live with the uncomfortable feeling of being uncertain before we can start to get better.

So my challenge for you is this: Try for one day to avoid doing your compulsions, as much as you can. It certainly won't hurt to delay figuring out this issue for a day, no matter how urgent the OCD might make it seem. If you like, you can even come back on here and let me know how the day went. (Feel free to p.m. as well if that's easier.)

Regarding feeling disconnected spiritually, that's common with OCD, too. Our feelings do not always indicate reality, especially where OCD is concerned. Keep working on the OCD, and your positive feelings are bound to gradually return over time.

I know how hard all this is. But it's not impossible. Keep taking one step at a time. You will be able to come up out of this!

dl_17 · Feb 16, 2021

Thank you so much for the advice. I'll try it definitely, perhaps even tomorrow. I want to cling on to the grace and mercy that God has offered through Jesus Christ while I go through this.

Btw, I've noticed you basically reply to every OCD vow-related posts even the old ones, I really appreciate your effort, God bless you!

Mari17 · Feb 17, 2021

dl_17 said:
Thank you so much for the advice. I'll try it definitely, perhaps even tomorrow. I want to cling on to the grace and mercy that God has offered through Jesus Christ while I go through this.

Btw, I've noticed you basically reply to every OCD vow-related posts even the old ones, I really appreciate your effort, God bless you!

Thank you for your response! It cheered my heart.

Yes, one thing this struggle with OCD has taught me is how wonderful and freeing it is to learn to truly trust God. He's amazing, and He is able to help us work through these trials and to live more and more in His freedom and grace!

wayfarer44 · Feb 21, 2021

This is actually something I've been dealing with too... even with the subject of marriage.

I'm convinced it's OCD going on.

I've done some study on vows and such in the Bible and there are some things that stood out to me, but I can get to that later.

What's been happening is that my brain's been sending me signals to swear to do things I don't want to do, or abstain from things I actually want. At first I think I fought against them mentally, but then things escalated to responding to them or resisting them vocally or under my breath, and when that happens it's really distressing.

It seems like there's this compulsion to say "not" or "no," or say some phrase like "I trust in Christ," "I stand on the promises," when these thoughts come to mind or when I hear the "s" sound. What makes it really stressful though is when I'm around people (or hearing them talk) and I say the phrases under my breath, because I can't hear myself speak, the thoughts I don't want are in my mind, and I'm hearing what others are saying, and I can't tell if I messed up and said something or made some commitment I didn't want to make.

That fear of whether or not I actually said something I didn't mean or want to say keeps coming up. Sometimes I'll say something and not remember what I said, and that uncertainty gets to me... Especially in the morning when I'm waking up or not fully awake, it's rough. But I've been telling myself stuff like that my brain is being mean to me and is trying to get me to "incriminate" myself.

One thing that has been getting at me lately is the thought (and the fear of accidentally vocalizing the thought) of promising not to marry a certain individual. But I really like this person and I really want to keep the option of marrying them open, even if it doesn't happen.

I've told the Lord that it's not my intention to close the door of the possibility of marrying this person several times, but I'm not sure if that "protects" me from being bound to this. I know He knows my heart, but... hmmm...

Anyway, this stuff is not fun. I wanna be able to think clearly and live again. Sometimes it's hard to want to get up in the morning...

wayfarer44 · Feb 21, 2021

About some of the things I've learned in study, here we go...

So I think at least one of the reasons my fear and anxiety has shifted from intrusive thoughts (though I still don't want them and have still reacted to them) to saying something I don't want to say is because of a common "theme" I saw in different verses talking about vows and such things.

Lev 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.

Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

Psa 66:13 I will go into thy house with burnt offerings: I will pay thee my vows,
Psa 66:14 Which my lips have uttered, and my mouth hath spoken, when I was in trouble.

And then there's also the stuff about fathers and husbands being able to annul vows, which wouldn't be possible if they weren't vocalized.

I could be wrong here, but these things lead me to believe that they're not really "official" until they're articulated.

I've actually dealt with intrusive thoughts about abstaining from marriage too, that stuff is hard because having a family of my own is a dream of mine.
As for that specific situation, do you think God agrees with abstaining from marriage or celibacy? I know people have gone without marrying, but I don't think it's His will to remove the possibility of marriage.
It's a sacred institution sanctioned by Him, and God ordained that men and women should unite in holy wedlock to raise families that would be symbols of the family in heaven.

"It is not good that the man should be alone."
"Be fruitful, and multiply."

I've also taken a look at the thing about Christ being the husband of the church. It seems like it makes sense, but I'm not sure what to think about it.

dl_17 · Feb 21, 2021

wayfarer44 said:
This is actually something I've been dealing with too... even with the subject of marriage.

I'm convinced it's OCD going on.

I've done some study on vows and such in the Bible and there are some things that stood out to me, but I can get to that later.

What's been happening is that my brain's been sending me signals to swear to do things I don't want to do, or abstain from things I actually want. At first I think I fought against them mentally, but then things escalated to responding to them or resisting them vocally or under my breath, and when that happens it's really distressing.

It seems like there's this compulsion to say "not" or "no," or say some phrase like "I trust in Christ," "I stand on the promises," when these thoughts come to mind or when I hear the "s" sound. What makes it really stressful though is when I'm around people (or hearing them talk) and I say the phrases under my breath, because I can't hear myself speak, the thoughts I don't want are in my mind, and I'm hearing what others are saying, and I can't tell if I messed up and said something or made some commitment I didn't want to make.

That fear of whether or not I actually said something I didn't mean or want to say keeps coming up. Sometimes I'll say something and not remember what I said, and that uncertainty gets to me... Especially in the morning when I'm waking up or not fully awake, it's rough. But I've been telling myself stuff like that my brain is being mean to me and is trying to get me to "incriminate" myself.

Anyway, one thing that has been getting at me lately is the thought (and the fear of accidentally vocalizing the thought) of promising not to marry a certain individual. But I really like this person and I really want to keep the option of marrying them open, even if it doesn't happen.

I've told the Lord that it's not my intention to close the door of the possibility of marrying this person several times, but I'm not sure if that "protects" me from being bound to this. I know He knows my heart, but... hmmm...

This morning really put me in uncertainty. There were some thoughts that were coming to mind while I was in bed, along with the urge to open my mouth. I didn't want them, and I tried to resist the urge to open my mouth, but I think it might've happened anyway.
While I can't quite say what they were (I don't think I said the word "swear," which is the word I've been trying to avoid, nor do I recall saying the person's name except maybe to affirm that I keep them open as a marriage option, and it might've just been one word that I mouthed/said), I'm left wondering whether or not I committed to something I didn't want to. It left a bad feeling like I messed up or something though.

Anyway, this stuff is not fun. I wanna be able to think clearly and live again. Sometimes it's hard to want to get up in the morning...

I agree. For me, because I'm not actually sure if I MADE the vow, I feel so stuck. I don't know which path I should move onto. If I actually DID make the vow, then I would probably have to apologise right? If I didn't, then I would probably be a little happier in my OCD journey. But I'm not. I'm stuck. Stuck.

Mornings aren't great either. It's like, every day is a battle of its own. I start the day with misery. I start from square one. Even before anything, I'm already bombarded with either the intrusive thought or the anxiety. It progresses throughout the day. Then when it's night time, I would somehow gain a little victory at night, as in I have confidence that I didn't make the vow. But the cycle repeats. I become miserable in the morning again. The whole process of figuring it out repeats again.

I've been listening to a lot of Mark Dejesus and Kathleen Kaczmarek on youtube (you can go check them out). I admit they're really helpful. Apparently, the root of the problem is legalism. But what I'm confused is, even in the New Testament it's not like I don't have to pay what I vowed, and the leniency hasn't decreased either, but I guess what's different is God gives us the chance to confess and repent? Like I said, the NT emphasises on confession and repentance (and freedom), but I'm just not sure what it means with vows. I don't know if it means you are forgiven, be free that kind of thing or just don't break it another time. Thinking about this is draining a lot of energy.

Ms Kaczmarek made an important point to me: I'm looking for the wrong scriptures because I didn't vow in the first place, that's why it's an endless torment. But with OCD, doubt is here doubt is there doubt is everywhere. I doubt whether or not I vowed in the first place.

You have probably scrolled through all 12-18 pages of "rash vows" google search, or things similar, and they probably made things worse, or at least that's how I felt. I don't know if people are being legalistic or not, but they make a point, and so do the people that say we are forgiven. It's all just SOOOO confusing. I've given up on searching.

Leviticus 5:4-5 brings a little more hope for me. How I interpret it is that you confess the making of the rash vow, not the breaking, and then you can get set free. Again, theologians just make it worse. The commentaries point to the breaking of the vows. Moreover, I don't even know how a lot of them translated "good or evil" as "impossible or unlawful". Unlawful = bad, this I agree, but impossible? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Another interesting verse is Proverbs 6:2-5, "If you have been ensnared by the words you have uttered, and have been caught by the words you have spoken,3 then, my child, do this in order to deliver yourself, because you have fallen into your neighbor’s power: go, humble yourself, and appeal firmly to your neighbor.4 Permit no sleep to your eyes or slumber to your eyelids.5 Deliver yourself like a gazelle from a snare, and like a bird from the trap of the fowler."
I'm not sure if this applies, I really don't know.

Currently, I'm in the state of mind of trying to stick with "I didn't vow, it was just a passing thought", and I'm struggling. I don't mean any disrespect to Mari, but I'm seriously struggling to let go. It affects my future greatly. I know you feel the same way.

dl_17 · Feb 21, 2021

I've also taken a look at the thing about Christ being the husband of the church. It seems like it makes sense, but I'm not sure what to think about it.

Me too. It makes sense to me, but it would also not work because it's the church that's the bride, not us individually. I might be wrong.

Mari17 · Feb 21, 2021

dl_17 said:
I agree. For me, because I'm not actually sure if I MADE the vow, I feel so stuck. I don't know which path I should move onto. If I actually DID make the vow, then I would probably have to apologise right? If I didn't, then I would probably be a little happier in my OCD journey. But I'm not. I'm stuck. Stuck.

Mornings aren't great either. It's like, every day is a battle of its own. I start the day with misery. I start from square one. Even before anything, I'm already bombarded with either the intrusive thought or the anxiety. It progresses throughout the day. Then when it's night time, I would somehow gain a little victory at night, as in I have confidence that I didn't make the vow. But the cycle repeats. I become miserable in the morning again. The whole process of figuring it out repeats again.

I've been listening to a lot of Mark Dejesus and Kathleen Kaczmarek on youtube (you can go check them out). I admit they're really helpful. Apparently, the root of the problem is legalism. But what I'm confused is, even in the New Testament it's not like I don't have to pay what I vowed, and the leniency hasn't decreased either, but I guess what's different is God gives us the chance to confess and repent? Like I said, the NT emphasises on confession and repentance (and freedom), but I'm just not sure what it means with vows. I don't know if it means you are forgiven, be free that kind of thing or just don't break it another time. Thinking about this is draining a lot of energy.

Ms Kaczmarek made an important point to me: I'm looking for the wrong scriptures because I didn't vow in the first place, that's why it's an endless torment. But with OCD, doubt is here doubt is there doubt is everywhere. I doubt whether or not I vowed in the first place.

You have probably scrolled through all 12-18 pages of "rash vows" google search, or things similar, and they probably made things worse, or at least that's how I felt. I don't know if people are being legalistic or not, but they make a point, and so do the people that say we are forgiven. It's all just SOOOO confusing. I've given up on searching.

Leviticus 5:4-5 brings a little more hope for me. How I interpret it is that you confess the making of the rash vow, not the breaking, and then you can get set free. Again, theologians just make it worse. The commentaries point to the breaking of the vows. Moreover, I don't even know how a lot of them translated "good or evil" as "impossible or unlawful". Unlawful = bad, this I agree, but impossible? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Currently, I'm in the state of mind of trying to stick with "I didn't vow, it was just a passing thought", and I'm struggling. I don't mean any disrespect to Mari, but I'm seriously struggling to let go. It affects my future greatly. I know you feel the same way.

I don't think that you've been disrespectful! LOL. I totally get how hard it is to let go - I've been dealing with this OCD stuff since I was about eight, with various themes. It's only in the past few years that I've really been able to deal with my OCD the way I should; treating it as OCD instead of continuing to give into compulsions. Even so, the pull is so strong that I do often give into compulsions!

I think the bottom line is that what you said was true: you haven't made a vow. Of course, your OCD doesn't believe that. Thus the rumination, research, and reassurance seeking. You can do all that stuff, but it will likely just keep you going round and round, and perpetuating the OCD cycle. OCD loves your attention, so the more attention you give it, the more it will feed off that - and grow. The less attention you give it, the more it will "starve" and shrink. It's pretty much as simple as that. Simple, but very very very difficult.

But here's my "challenge" question to you: What would happen if you put off trying to figure out this question for a week? If you did no research or other compulsions for one week?

dl_17 · Feb 21, 2021

But here's my "challenge" question to you: What would happen if you put off trying to figure out this question for a week? If you did no research or other compulsions for one week?

Can I be honest? It's debilitating. I would happily, and I mean happily, accept God's forgiveness and deliverance, and people keep telling me that God's mercy covers this area, but the OCD just feels very real, I can't get out of it.

If I did no compulsions for one week, I would feel horrible in the sense that by assuming I didn't vow it, or just simply move on, it would feel as if I'm disobeying God deliberately, and I do not want to be on that side of God. Even day by day I'm starting to "forget" what happened that night, and I'm worried about it. How do I know with confidence that God wants me to move on? I mean again, I've been getting feedback from people saying that I either didn't make the vow or I can simply confess and move on, I feel like this is God's way of speaking to me, and it's empowering/brings comfort. However, I cannot discern whether or not the ones I label as "OCD voices" are ACTUALLY OCD voices, and not of God.

dl_17 · Feb 21, 2021

dl_17 said:
Can I be honest? It's debilitating. I would happily, and I mean happily, accept God's forgiveness and deliverance, and people keep telling me that God's mercy covers this area, but the OCD just feels very real, I can't get out of it.

If I did no compulsions for one week, I would feel horrible in the sense that by assuming I didn't vow it, or just simply move on, it would feel as if I'm disobeying God deliberately, and I do not want to be on that side of god. Even day by day I'm starting to "forget" what happened that night, and I'm worried about it. How do I know with confidence that God wants me to move on? I mean again, I've been getting feedback from people saying that I either didn't make the vow or I can simply confess and move on, I feel like this is God's way of speaking to me, and it's empowering/brings comfort. However, I cannot discern whether or not the ones I label as "OCD voices" are ACTUALLY OCD voices, and not of God.

Oh, and one more thing. I realised how the enemy is using this to tempt me into vowing TO marry. I resist these thoughts, but it's more confusing because although they are intrusive, it seems very "seductive". It gets confusing and confusing and confusing. I know it won't end well for me, and plus I've also committed to NOT make any rash vows anymore, but it's still a temptation.

wayfarer44 · Feb 22, 2021

dl_17 said:
Can I be honest? It's debilitating. I would happily, and I mean happily, accept God's forgiveness and deliverance, and people keep telling me that God's mercy covers this area, but the OCD just feels very real, I can't get out of it.

If I did no compulsions for one week, I would feel horrible in the sense that by assuming I didn't vow it, or just simply move on, it would feel as if I'm disobeying God deliberately, and I do not want to be on that side of God. Even day by day I'm starting to "forget" what happened that night, and I'm worried about it. How do I know with confidence that God wants me to move on? I mean again, I've been getting feedback from people saying that I either didn't make the vow or I can simply confess and move on, I feel like this is God's way of speaking to me, and it's empowering/brings comfort. However, I cannot discern whether or not the ones I label as "OCD voices" are ACTUALLY OCD voices, and not of God.

How do we determine whether it's the voice of God or not?
Have you read what Isaiah 8:20 says?

But Mari is right I think. The key to overcoming this seems to be not giving these thoughts any attention, as hard as and counterintuitive as it may seem.
Our thoughts are like plants in a garden. What we focus on determines which plants get watered, and thus which ones grow. So what happens when we keep watering a certain plant?

But I think it's not just about starving one thought or one kind of thoughts:
Luk 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
Luk 11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
Luk 11:26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

What do we overcome evil with? What does Romans 12:21 say?

So we've gotta fix our focus and attention elsewhere. Fill our minds with something else.

One thing I found has been really helpful for me is music. It's powerful stuff. Singing hymns, scripture songs, and such. I actually want to make a "therapeutic" music session a part of my day.

wayfarer44 · Feb 22, 2021

dl_17 said:
You have probably scrolled through all 12-18 pages of "rash vows" google search, or things similar, and they probably made things worse, or at least that's how I felt. I don't know if people are being legalistic or not, but they make a point, and so do the people that say we are forgiven. It's all just SOOOO confusing. I've given up on searching.

I dunno about that

But I've definitely read some stuff and done some searching.

Anyway, I want to apologize, as me sharing my experience and talking about how bad it's been (especially with my first post) might have been more hurtful than helpful. I should share words that edify rather than talkin' 'bout all my problems.

dl_17 · Feb 23, 2021

wayfarer44 said:
I dunno about that
But I've definitely read some stuff and done some searching.

Anyway, I want to apologize, as me sharing my experience and talking about how bad it's been (especially with my first post) might have been more hurtful than helpful. I should share words that edify rather than talkin' 'bout all my problems.

It's ok, I understand. I'm in this too.

Mari17 · Feb 25, 2021

dl_17 said:
Can I be honest? It's debilitating. I would happily, and I mean happily, accept God's forgiveness and deliverance, and people keep telling me that God's mercy covers this area, but the OCD just feels very real, I can't get out of it.

If I did no compulsions for one week, I would feel horrible in the sense that by assuming I didn't vow it, or just simply move on, it would feel as if I'm disobeying God deliberately, and I do not want to be on that side of God. Even day by day I'm starting to "forget" what happened that night, and I'm worried about it. How do I know with confidence that God wants me to move on? I mean again, I've been getting feedback from people saying that I either didn't make the vow or I can simply confess and move on, I feel like this is God's way of speaking to me, and it's empowering/brings comfort. However, I cannot discern whether or not the ones I label as "OCD voices" are ACTUALLY OCD voices, and not of God.

I guess what I mean is doing the opposite of what your OCD wants you to do. So, your OCD wants desperately for you to find reassurance, "confidence" as you say, of being 100% certain that you have not made this vow. Therein lies the key problem of OCD. Whatever issue it is, we say to ourselves, "If only I knew FOR SURE....! I could be happy!" The problem is that, with whatever particular obsession we are struggling with at the time, we are craving an amount of certainty which is impossible on this earth. OCD is "the doubting disease," which means that no matter what logical arguments or reassurances you come across, your brain will bring up more doubts. It WANTS to keep you guessing, afraid, frustrated. So the key is to flip it on its head. Instead of looking desperately for certainty, be OK with uncertainty. Say something like, "OK, I don't know for sure whether or not I made a vow, or whether it's binding. Probably it's not - but I don't know for sure. And as long as I'm in this obsessive 'fog,' I won't know for sure. So for now, I have to just accept the possibility that perhaps I did make that vow, and I will not be able to get married. It's tough, but I'm sure God will help me deal with it." Then, every time your brain brings up this fear, you go back to the same line, the same air of nonchalance. "Yep, my future is probably ruined. Oh well! I'll deal with it somehow!" And move on with your day, doing your normal daily activities instead of giving into the urge to do a compulsion (e.g. research or seek reassurance) like your OCD is begging you to do.

Is this difficult? Yes. So difficult that at times it seems impossible. Is it impossible? No. We always have the choice to ignore OCD, to choose to live with the incredibly uncomfortable feeling of "not knowing" instead of giving into our 'addiction' to seek an unreasonable amount of certainty. It's a very difficult process that requires a lot of repetition (saying no to the OCD over and over again) and perseverance. But - there is a reward. As we do this, bit by bit, ever so gradually, we become able to think clearly once more. To see both sides of the issue; to be able to take a balanced view, instead of the one-sided view that OCD is forcing us to take. We become able to accept, with calmness, a reasonable amount of certainty rather than craving an impossible amount.

I understand how hard this is. I'm still on the tail end of my most recent obsession, one that has had me doing very similar things. But I've had to learn to table the issue, to live with the fact that PERHAPS my worst fears are true, and to leave my uncertainty up to God, trusting that He will make my way clear and direct my paths in time. But the more important lesson, in the meantime, is to learn to surrender my need to know RIGHT NOW and to trust His timing and plan. He is good. I believe He will lead you with calmness and clarity, not with fear. For now, your most important task is not to figure out this issue, but to practice surrendering and trusting.

So, the original challenge still stands. You have the power to choose whether or not to give in to OCD. Start small, if you have to. Ignore one fearful thought, refuse one compulsion (even a small one, like the urge to ruminate). Then keep pushing yourself to do more - for example, not allowing yourself to do compulsions for a day, then a week, etc. Even this process is not perfect, but every time you choose to say no to OCD, you take a bit of the power away from it. And eventually, it weakens its grip.

Here is an article that explains the process of dealing with OCD well:
Managing the Haunting Thoughts of Pure O – OCD
Also, I can't remember if I already mentioned it, but the author of that site also has an online FB support group (closed, so your friends can't see that you're in it) for people with OCD/anxiety. I've found that group helpful as well: Facebook Groups

And of course, I'm here anytime to answer questions or just discuss the process!

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