20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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keras

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More on the New Covenant for the unconvinced as I agree with SpiritualJew:
This horse was beaten to death on my other thread.
No one, or you above; has shown how the 4 main points of the NC as Written in Hebrews 8:10-12, are in effect.
We do have the Promise of it, to be fulfilled in the future.

This Covenant will be made between Jesus and all of His people when they gather and live in all of the holy Land. As I prove in the Great Second Exodus thread.
 
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sovereigngrace

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More on the New Covenant for the unconvinced as I agree with SpiritualJew:

The Old Covenant instituted on Mt Sinai was intended for all the people of Israel: Ex 24:8; Rom 9:6b
Rom 9:6 - "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel,
Ex 24:8 - "And Moses took the blood and threw it upon the people, and said, "Behold the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words."​

The promise of a New Covenant: (Eze 34:25; 37:26; Is 55:3; Jer 32:40 et al)
Eze 34:25 - "I will make with them a Covenant of Peace ..."
Eze 37:26 - "I will make a Covenant of Peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; and I will bless them and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. (Jesus was intended to be the "sanctuary" (naos-Gk)
Isa 55:3 - Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant, my steadfast, sure love for David.
Jer 32:40 - I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them; and I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.​

The Ordinance of the Lord's Supper instituted and the New Covenant to be fulfilled within hours:
Luk 22:19 - And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood." (Mt 26:29 - "I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

The bread of the Old Covenant was always "unleavened" bread. BUT, when the bread of the Last Supper was used by Jesus, it was "leavened" [naos] bread - indicating that it was confirmation of his fulfillment of the New Covenant when he had risen from the grave.

The confirmation:
Jhn 21:9-20 - "When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish." The "bread" on the beach was the living everlasting "bread of life"; of which was a confirmation that the New Covenant was now in force!
I added because I forgot to include verses after the gospel accounts:

Peter confirmed the New Covenant in the book of Acts:

Act 3:25 - "You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God gave to your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your posterity shall all the families of the earth be blessed.'

The Apostle Paul:

2Co 3:14 ~ But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.

Hebrews

Heb 8:6 ~ But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Heb 8:13 ~ In speaking of a New Covenant he treats the first [old] as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 9:15 ~ Therefore [Jesus] is the mediator of a New Covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

Heb 9:18 ~ Hence even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood. {To paraphrase it; "The New Covenant WAS INAUGURATED with blood.}

Heb 10:29 ~ How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

Rev 11:19 ~ Then God's temple [naos/spiritual] in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his [naos/spiritual] temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on Luke 22:19-20
"The Lord's supper is a sign or memorial of Christ already come, who by dying delivered us; his death is in special manner set before us in that ordinance, by which we are reminded of it. The breaking of Christ's body as a sacrifice for us, is therein brought to our remembrance by the breaking of bread. Nothing can be more nourishing and satisfying to the soul, than the doctrine of Christ's making atonement for sin, and the assurance of an interest in that atonement. Therefore we do this in remembrance of what He did for us, when he died for us; and for a memorial of what we do, in joining ourselves to him in an Everlasting Covenant. The shedding of Christ's blood, by which the atonement was made, is represented by the wine in the cup.

Excellent post!
 
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sovereigngrace

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This horse was beaten to death on my other thread.
No one, or you above; has shown how the 4 main points of the NC as Written in Hebrews 8:10-12, are in effect.
We do have the Promise of it, to be fulfilled in the future.

This Covenant will be made between Jesus and all of His people when they gather and live in all of the holy Land. As I prove in the Great Second Exodus thread.

Yes they have. You just choose to avoid it.

There was one covenant that has been fully realized. If the new covenant has not arrived, what covenant are we currently under?
 
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keras

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Yes they have. You just choose to avoid it.

There was one covenant that has been fully realized. If the new covenant has not arrived, what covenant are we currently under?
The prophecy in Jeremiah 50:4-5 proves that currently no one is in any Covenant with the Lord. It will happen when His faithful people from every race, nation and language, come together and go to live in Zion; in all of the holy Land.
We do have His Promise of a new Covenant, as Jesus has done His part of it and we celebrate that at Communion.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The prophecy in Jeremiah 50:4-5 proves that currently no one is in any Covenant with the Lord. It will happen when His faithful people from every race, nation and language, come together and go to live in Zion; in all of the holy Land.
We do have His Promise of a new Covenant, as Jesus has done His part of it and we celebrate that at Communion.

Not so. 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 tells us that God: "hath made us able ministers of the new testament [diathēkē or covenant]; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?"

This is present tense.

Hebrews 8:6 declares: “now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant [diathēkē or covenant], which was established upon better promises."

This is present tense.

Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9). He now sits at the right hand of majesty interceding for His elect.

Hebrews 9:14-15 confirms this: “the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament [diathēkē or covenant], that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”

This is present tense.

Hebrews 12:22 & 24 sums it all up: “ye are come unto ... Jesus the mediator of the new covenant [diathēkē or covenant], and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."

This is present tense.

Hebrews 10:28-29: “He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant [diathēkē or testament], wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

This is present tense.
 
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jeffweedaman

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Not so. 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 tells us that God: "hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?"

This is present tense.

Hebrews 8:6 declares: “now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

This is present tense.

Christ came to save sinners and He completed that perfectly, in that He secured eternal redemption for his elect through His death (Hebrews 5:8-9). He now sits at the right hand of majesty interceding for His elect.

Hebrews 9:14-15 confirms this: “the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament [diathēkē], that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”

This is present tense.

Hebrews 12:22 & 24 sums it all up: “ye are come unto ... Jesus the mediator of the new covenant [diathēkē], and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."

This is present tense.

Hebrews 10:28-29: “He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

This is present tense.
Very true and well put yet again.
 
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keras

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The texts above refute your error. That is why you must avoid addressing them.
I did address the scriptures you quoted in #2338.
None of them actually say the New Covenant was made then or is in effect now.

What you avoid, is the truth of Bible prophecy; how the NC will be made when all the Lord's faithful Christian people are living in all of the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:25, Isaiah 61:8, Ezekiel 37:26,
Jeremiah 32:37-40 I shall gather My people from all the lands where they now live......I will make an everlasting Covenant with them, it will be a joy for Me to do them good.

THESE prophesies ARE clear statements. Believe them, or believe scriptures that do not say what you think they do.
 
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jgr

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None of them actually say the New Covenant was made then or is in effect now.

On the contrary, they say so explicitly.

Hebrews 8 KJV
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

From your beloved REV:
6 As it is, he has obtained a more excellent ministry, in as much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, since it has been enacted on the basis of better promises.

Hebrews 9 KJV
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Christ's diatheke New Testament/Covenant was of force immediately upon His death.
 
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keras

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From your beloved REV:
6 As it is, he has obtained a more excellent ministry, in as much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, since it has been enacted on the basis of better promises.
What the Revised English Bible, Oxford 1989, actually does say:
Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry which Jesus has been given is superior to theirs, for He is the Mediator of a better covenant, established on better promises.
The Ministry of Jesus was superior to any previous ministry and He is the Mediator of another, better Covenant. To be established in the future.

Not only do you misrepresent me and the Bible that I and most Wickliffe translators use, you fail to understand the prophesies that prove a future Covenant, as I posted in #2452.
Let alone actually the obvious fact of the things that will happen when it is in force, as per Hebrews 8:10-12.
 
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jgr

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What the Revised English Bible, Oxford 1989, actually does say:
Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry which Jesus has been given is superior to theirs, for He is the Mediator of a better covenant, established on better promises.
The Ministry of Jesus was superior to any previous ministry and He is the Mediator of another, better Covenant. To be established in the future.

Not only do you misrepresent me and the Bible that I and most Wickliffe translators use, you fail to understand the prophesies that prove a future Covenant, as I posted in #2452.
Let alone actually the obvious fact of the things that will happen when it is in force, as per Hebrews 8:10-12.

Hoisted with your own petard.

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry which Jesus has been given is superior to theirs, for He is the Mediator of a better covenant, established on better promises.

Not a future to be seen.

All tenses are past and present.

And they're NT Greek tenses, unlike OT Hebrew which is tenseless.
 
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jgr

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Not only do you misrepresent me and the Bible that I and most Wickliffe translators use

It is to laugh.

Wycliffe's (learn how to spell it) translations were from the Latin Vulgate, more than 500 years before anything called the REB appeared.

"Wycliffe" appears nowhere herein. Provide a link to evidence that Wycliffe translators use the REB more than they use any other version.
 
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ShineyDays2

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The Ministry of Jesus was superior to any previous ministry and He is the Mediator of another, better Covenant. To be established in the future.
The New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is the same as in Luke 22; both are for spiritual Israel according to Hebrews 8.

Jer 31:27 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man [Jesus] and the seed of beast.​

The prophesy of promise:
Jer 31:31 ~ "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,"........What part of are coming,... I will and New of God's promise do you not understand??

Jesus enacted/fulfilled his promise of the New Covenant:
Luk 22:20 ~ And likewise the cup after supper, [Jesus said], "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.".........What part of is and is the NEW COVENANT in the sealed blood of Jesus' death on the cross do you not understand?

Paul preached it as a crucial part of the gospel and absolutely considered the promise in Jeremiah 31:31 to have been fulfilled when he uses the word "remembrance" in regards to the past enactment by Jesus:
1Co 11:25 ~ "In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the New Covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."......What part of is used again and Do this [now/present tense] do you not understand?

Heb 8:6-9
~ But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second [covenant]. For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.......What part of the past tense of has, Is, will come, I will and a broken covenant do you not understand?
 
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Timtofly

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Yes they have. You just choose to avoid it.

There was one covenant that has been fully realized. If the new covenant has not arrived, what covenant are we currently under?
The OT church was not under the Covenant of the Law. It was still by faith, one pleased God. The Covenant of Faith is the only Covenant the church has had since Abel. Abel was never under nor bound by sin, thus Faith is not genetic, ethnic, nor assigned by any national associations. The church did not replace the Covenant of the Law. The church absorbed the economy the Law represented. It was not a remnant of Law abiding citizens. It was a remnant of people with Faith who were under the economy of the Law of Moses.

The church is not defined by the constitution of any government nor it's currency dictating it's form of economic ability. No one was ever saved by living any Law or constitution. That is the mindset of replacement theology or the church "fulfilling" the Law of Moses. That is not the reason Paul wrote about the Law. It is the same today. One is not a Christian because one is a patriotic defender of a Constitution. One is not less of a Christian because their government now embraces wickedness as the Law of the Land.

There was a remnant of faith despite the corruption of the Pharisees and Saducees of the first century Israel. There is a remnant of Faith besides the corruption of Conservatives and Liberals of today.
 
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Timtofly

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Heb 8:6-9 ~ But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second [covenant]. For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.......What part of the past tense of has, Is, will come, I will and a broken covenant do you not understand?
Since the Nation of Israel did not exist between 70AD and 1948AD, there was no national covenant. Jesus has not come to earth to confirm such a covenant. It is still future.

The church existed before the Law of Moses. It certainly did not replace such a Covenant found in that Law. The first century national Israel ended, so no new Covenant was ever confirmed. The church is not a Nation. The church is not even spiritual Israel as that is just a figure of speech and not literal. Some claim that the church is still bound by the Law of Israel as given by God to Moses. That would be the literal spiritual Israel. One of holiness and sinless perfection. I am not sure how one spiritually makes daily sacrifices in case of a broken Law. I mean if one is spiritual Israel, they are bound by the Law even spiritually, no? The Roman Church tried in many ways to maintain such a form of government, and failed.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen. There is no physical application here to turn into some type of Law or constitutional government. Such a government is not by observation or physical currently; as sin has physically blinded us to anything spiritual.

The church cannot replace a physical covenant because it never existed in the confines of one that could do it proper justice.
 
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jgr

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Since the Nation of Israel did not exist between 70AD and 1948AD, there was no national covenant. Jesus has not come to earth to confirm such a covenant. It is still future.

The church existed before the Law of Moses. It certainly did not replace such a Covenant found in that Law. The first century national Israel ended, so no new Covenant was ever confirmed. The church is not a Nation. The church is not even spiritual Israel as that is just a figure of speech and not literal. Some claim that the church is still bound by the Law of Israel as given by God to Moses. That would be the literal spiritual Israel. One of holiness and sinless perfection. I am not sure how one spiritually makes daily sacrifices in case of a broken Law. I mean if one is spiritual Israel, they are bound by the Law even spiritually, no? The Roman Church tried in many ways to maintain such a form of government, and failed.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for. The evidence of things not seen. There is no physical application here to turn into some type of Law or constitutional government. Such a government is not by observation or physical currently; as sin has physically blinded us to anything spiritual.

The church cannot replace a physical covenant because it never existed in the confines of one that could do it proper justice.

There never was, nor will ever be, a "national covenant". That is a dispensational delusion, a fantasy and fallacy.

God's covenants have ever and always been, and will ever and always be, only with those of faith and obedience, in and to Him and His Son. In the Old Testament, they were His faithful and obedient remnant within the nation at large. In the New Testament, they are the same faithful and obedient remnant within the world at large, His Church.

Christ's "diatheke" New Testament/Covenant was confirmed at Calvary in His Blood of His Everlasting Covenant. (Hebrews 13:20).

Holy Scripture is identified as Old Testament and New Testament.

Those are not misnomers, notwithstanding the futile efforts of those who would attempt to decapitate and delay the latter, and to deny its reality and efficacy.

The Word of the Lord stands forever. (1 Peter 1:25)

And always has.
 
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keras

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There never was, nor will ever be, a "national covenant". That is a dispensational delusion, a fantasy and fallacy.
This foolish statement directly contradicts many prophesies:
The New Covenant will be made between the Lord and His corporate Christian peoples, after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed all of the holy Land, and all the righteous, faithful Christian peoples will migrate to live there: Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Romans 9:26

Ezekiel 34:25 I shall make a Covenant with them for their peace and prosperity....

Isaiah 61:8..... I will grant them a sure reward and make an everlasting Covenant with them.

Isaiah 59:20-21 The Lord will come as a Redeemer to Zion and to those descended from Jacob who repent of their rebellion. This is the Covenant I will make with them: My Spirit will abide with them thru all the following generations.

Jeremiah 32:37-40 I shall gather My people from all the lands where they now live......I will make an everlasting Covenant with them, it will be a joy for Me to do them good.

Ezekiel 37:26 [After the Spiritual regeneration and the rejoining of the tribes] I shall make an everlasting Covenant with them, for their peace and prosperity and their numbers will greatly increase. I will put My Sanctuary in their midst, where it will remain for all time.

Isaiah 33:17-24 Those who live righteously and speak the truth, who do not take bribes, rejecting all evil – they will dwell securely with ample food and water. Psalms 37:29, Psalms 85:12
 
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keras

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Hoisted with your own petard.

Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry which Jesus has been given is superior to theirs, for He is the Mediator of a better covenant, established on better promises.

Not a future to be seen.

All tenses are past and present.

And they're NT Greek tenses, unlike OT Hebrew which is tenseless.
Hebrews 8:6 is talking about Jesus Ministry and how He is the Mediator of a better Covenant.
Those Promises are listed in verses 10-12 and are NOT established yet.
Wycliffe's (learn how to spell it) translations were from the Latin Vulgate, more than 500 years before anything called the REB appeared.

"Wycliffe" appears nowhere herein. Provide a link to evidence that Wycliffe translators use the REB more than they use any other version.
I was not talking about John Wycliffe. Circa 1300;s. His name is also spelled Wickliffe.

My brother is a translation Consultant for Wycliffe Bible Translators. They do use the Revised English Bible, as it is the best English version of the Bible.
The contradictive anomalies, like in Luke 21:35-36, are correctly rendered.
[Verse 36 says; 'pass safely through', not 'escape', which contradicts verse 35 - ' that day will come upon everyone'.]
 
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jgr

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Hebrews 8:6 is talking about Jesus Ministry and how He is the Mediator of a better Covenant.
Those Promises are listed in verses 10-12 and are NOT established yet.

Explain how a Covenant which is established (Hebrews 8:6)...

Is not established.
 
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