Women Priests.

Lawrence87 said:

Christ was a man, thus his representatives here on this earth are men.Women have an important role in the Church, it is not in the priesthood though

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As I said. That fails the golden rule. There is no place in Christianity for sexism.
Jesus explained this a number of times. He never agreed to the priest gender rules that have been invented by men. In every instance where men try to put women in their place around Jesus, he puts them in their place.


What Does the Bible Say About The Golden Rule?

SkyWriting said:

As I said. That fails the golden rule. There is no place in Christianity for sexism.
Jesus explained this a number of times. He never agreed to the priest gender rules that have been invented.
What Does the Bible Say About The Golden Rule?

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None of the Apostles were women.

Saint Paul teaches that women should not speak in Church.

If you don't like the idea that Christianity accepts the differences between the sexes, you don't have to be a Christian. You shouldn't pretend that Christianity supports modern liberal ideas

Lawrence87 said:

Christ was a man, thus his representatives here on this earth are men.

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It's Christ's humanity, not his sex, that is the important thing. Else no woman would be redeemed (with reference to Athanasius' comment that what is not assumed is not redeemed).

Paidiske said:

It's Christ's humanity, not his sex, that is the important thing. Else no woman would be redeemed (with reference to Athanasius' comment that what is not assumed is not redeemed).

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What he did not assume he did not redeem.

There are a number of Church Canons regarding the ritual purity of the priests serving the Divine Liturgy which would automatically disqualify women from serving in tha altar for a certain time every month.

prodromos said:

There are a number of Church Canons regarding the ritual purity of the priests serving the Divine Liturgy which would automatically disqualify women from serving in tha altar for a certain time every month.

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That makes tonnes of assumptions. At the risk of TMI, for example, I have no monthly cycle, and this would be no issue for me.

Of course, not all churches have such canons anyway, or would think such a limitation reasonable or desirable.

Paidiske said:

That makes tonnes of assumptions. At the risk of TMI, for example, I have no monthly cycle, and this would be no issue for me.

Of course, not all churches have such canons anyway, or would think such a limitation reasonable or desirable.

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Your Church can do what it likes. I have no issue with that. I am simply expressing what would be one issue in the Orthodox Church.

Lawrence87 said:

None of the Apostles were women.

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That's because at the time, men were the most convenient teachers of truth of the day. And men are uniquely suited for all the travel involved in spreading the gospel. But it's ridiculous to say Jesus would have turned away any female followers that the Father had sent to lead. He wouldn't have.

Lawrence87 said:

Saint Paul teaches that women should not speak in Church.

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That fails the golden rule. So that's not what he was saying.
You've understood it wrong.

SkyWriting said:

That fails the golden rule. So that's not what he was saying.
You've understood it wrong.

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Where on earth do you get the idea that the golden rule is the means by which we should interpret scripture?

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression”

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“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”

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Its pretty unambiguous.

Lawrence87 said:

If you don't like the idea that Christianity accepts the differences between the sexes, you don't have to be a Christian.

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I didn't say there was no difference between the sexes. I said such differences must be ignored because the golden rule requires that we treat other people no differently than we would treat ourselves.
it's just the rule, that all. If you really want to follow God's commands, then:

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

What Does the Bible Say About The Golden Rule?

Lawrence87 said:

Where on earth do you get the idea that the golden rule is the means by which we should interpret scripture?

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James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 19:19
Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”



Its pretty unambiguous. If a second author does not back up "an idea" in the Bible, then put that idea down. God had 1500 years to explain what He meant. He didn't reserve any truth for one particular author.

SkyWriting said:

I didn't say there was no difference between the sexes. I said such differences must be ignored because the golden rule requires that we treat other people no differently than we would treat ourselves.
it's just the rule, that all. If you really want to follow God's commands, then:

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

What Does the Bible Say About The Golden Rule?

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You are assuming that not allowing women to be priests is unloving towards them. You can treat people unequally without the difference amounting to a lack of love.

SkyWriting said:

Its pretty unambiguous. If a second author does not back up an idea in the Bible, then toss it.

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Yes but you are adding the assumption that not allowing a woman to speak in church or join the priesthood is through hatred of women. That's nonsense. We don't let infants become priests either, that doesn't mean we don't love them.

Toss things you dislike out from the Bible if you wish. That's not really becoming of a Christian though.

Lawrence87 said:

You are assuming that not allowing women to be priests is unloving towards them.

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Yes, exactly.

Lawrence87 said:

Yes but you are adding the assumption that not allowing a woman to speak in church or join the priesthood is through hatred of women.

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Not at all. Loving people can be idiots. I have a grandkid who is an idiot. He's very loving, at times.

You can't make a case that something Paul said is stronger than the golden rule book.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them", for this is the Law and the Prophets.


What Does the Bible Say About The Golden Rule?

See? Love is not needed. You do it love or no love. Hate or no hate.

SkyWriting said:

Yes, exactly.

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Thats a stupid assumption. Do we refuse to allow men and women to compete against each other in boxing because we hate women? Do we refuse to allow children to drive cars because we hate them? Differential treatment does not equate to hatred. It can be done with love. To assume that it can't is a pretty big assumption that does not reflect the reality of life in this world.

It's also true that the Bible says that teachers are to be judged a lot more harshly than anyone else, you could make the case that it's gracious not to allow women to put themselves on the line like that.

Lawrence87 said:

Yes but you are adding the assumption that not allowing a woman to speak in church or join the priesthood is through hatred of women. That's nonsense. We don't let infants become priests either, that doesn't mean we don't love them.

Toss things you dislike out from the Bible if you wish. That's not really becoming of a Christian though.

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All knowledge is filtered through the golden rule book. It's a book Paul didn't have.
What Does the Bible Say About The Golden Rule?

Lawrence87 said:

Thats a stupid assumption. Do we refuse to allow men and women to compete against each other in boxing because we hate women? Do we refuse to allow children to drive cars because we hate them? Differential treatment does not equate to hatred. It can be done with love. To assume that it can't is a pretty big assumption that does not reflect the reality of life in this world.

It's also true that the Bible says that teachers are to be judged a lot more harshly than anyone else, you could make the case that it's gracious not to allow women to put themselves on the line like that.

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If you could treat others differently
than you wish them to treat you,
then you'd have a case.

But, that's not an option.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.



Eternal values are all confirmed in different books,
by multiple claims of the 40 known authors.
Any unconfirmed ideology is like sitting on the tip end
of a dead tree limb that hasn't been shaken.

Lawrence87 said:

Thats a stupid assumption. Do we refuse to allow men and women to compete against each other in boxing because we hate women? Do we refuse to allow children to drive cars because we hate them? Differential treatment does not equate to hatred. It can be done with love. To assume that it can't is a pretty big assumption that does not reflect the reality of life in this world. It's also true that the Bible says that teachers are to be judged a lot more harshly than anyone else, you could make the case that it's gracious not to allow women to put themselves on the line like that.

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But we're not using this world to justify scripture.
We are using scripture to justify what we should be doing in this world.

Matthew 7:12
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 6:31
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Leviticus 19:18
You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Ephesians 4
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Romans 13:9
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment,
are summed up in this word:
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Matthew 22:39
And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 19:19
Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 5:44
But I say to you, Love your enemies...

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment,
are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Mark 12:33
And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

Matthew 22:37-40
And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

Ephesians 4:32
Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

Lawrence87 said:

you could make the case that it's gracious not to allow women to put themselves on the line like that.

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I really don't think that modern, confident women need the protection of "gracious" men telling them what they can and can't do.