In Australia Vic Government trying to pass laws that criminalise preaching

ken777 · Feb 12, 2021

SilverBear said:
"Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function" Sigmund Freud

A good many Christians are more persuaded by Scripture than Sigmund Freud.

kiwimac · Feb 12, 2021

ken777 said:
A good many Christians are more persuaded by Scripture than Sigmund Freud.

Wrongly imo.

dms1972 · Feb 12, 2021

Paidiske said:
Yes, that's the fear, but it's a fear that bears no relation to what the legislation and the explanatory advice about it actually says. None of those things are being banned.

Can you direct me to the explanatory notes

Paidiske · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
Can you direct me to the explanatory notes:

There have been links to and quotes from them earlier in the thread.

dms1972 said:
I read a report done in New Zealand on conversion therapy and they listed several things as examples of conversion therapy that are not that - including Reparative Therapy and Efforts at Addressing Sexual Addictions - It was mind-bloggling inaccurate and dangerous.

This, however, is Australian legislation; and they have specified only two things as conversion therapy; an attempt to change someone's sexual orientation, or gender identity. Anything else, including the aforementioned prayer, Bible reading, and pastoral care, is not conversion therapy for the purposes of this legislation.

ken777 · Feb 12, 2021

kiwimac said:
Wrongly imo.

In the context of this thread it really doesn't matter what you believe or what I believe. It only matters what the person with SSA believes and what they want to do about it.

dms1972 · Feb 12, 2021

I read a report done in New Zealand on conversion therapy and they listed several things as examples of conversion therapy that are not that - including Reparative Therapy and Efforts at Addressing Sexual Addictions and Disorders - I could only describe it as grossly inaccurate and dangerous. One only had to look at the lack of evidence for much of what was claimed in it and its exaggerated language - for example that Psychoanalysis, which is one of the most non-directive forms of psychotherapy "hammers people with the idea that [a homosexual orientation] is a mental illness" - a ridiculous assertion and generalisation.

Sadly that sort of ideologically driven verbiage may take in some naive individuals. However a greater ability to spot disinformation should be expected from those in goverment or leaders in the churches!

dms1972 · Feb 12, 2021

Paidiske said:
There have been links to and quotes from them earlier in the thread.

Sorry its a long thread by now - I supplied you with links when you could not find one of mine - maybe you could extend me the same courtesy?

Paidiske · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
Sorry its a long thread by now - I supplied you with links when could not find one of mine - maybe you could extend me the same courtesy?

I didn't bookmark them, I'm sorry. They were linked by someone else.

dms1972 · Feb 12, 2021

Paidiske said:
Gotta reinforce that siege mentality, I guess. They shall know we are Christian by our persecution complexes?

I would point out that while a sense of oppression or persecution is not always realistic, under some circumstances it is. Its also true of some LGB folk that they play the victim card quite a bit.

ken777 · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
I think its the other way round - in some countries LGB activists have got nearly everything up and including adopted trophy children. If as some would have us believe, gay men are a varient of humanity without the needed sexual attractions to procreate with the opposite sex - what do they want kids for?

And they cannot play the victim card so easily now, and really they have not purpose much left now they have got all these concessions from some spineless politicians - so they make up a fiction (not much new there) about psychoanalysis and reparative therapies now that some naive folks all too easily believe.

Identity politics is now dictating what people can say. The accusation of "homophobic" terrifies out MPs, academics, sportspeople, etc. because the piranha pack can destroy a career.

An Aboriginal spokeswoman was accused on the ABC (our national, publicly funded broadcaster) of racism because she did not toe the PC line. A sportswoman, who now leads a church which regards homosexual acts as sin, was attacked recently because she was given an award for tennis achievements of world class.

The new law follows the same trend - trying to protect one group while denying freedom to another group.

dms1972 · Feb 12, 2021

ken777 · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
If that terrifies them they are pathetic, spineless and cowards.

Some surrender out of fear, for others surrender is virtue signaling, and in the church some surrender out of disdain for Scripture. Even so, God always has a little flock who are prepared to pay the price. In days to come, these brave souls will be tested by the state government department tasked with investigating anonymous complaints under this new law.

Confused-by-christianity · Feb 12, 2021

coffee4u said:
Often (and I am not saying that you are saying this) people use "That is your interpretation" as an excuse, most times because they disagree.

Perhaps we agree on one thing. We both seem to think some have the will to spin the bible to mean whatever they want it to mean.

SilverBear · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
I read a report done in New Zealand on conversion therapy and they listed several things as examples of conversion therapy that are not that - including Reparative Therapy and Efforts at Addressing Sexual Addictions and Disorders - I could only describe it as grossly inaccurate and dangerous. One only had to look at the lack of evidence for much of what was claimed in it and its exaggerated language - for example that Psychoanalysis, which is one of the most non-directive forms of psychotherapy "hammers people with the idea that [a homosexual orientation] is a mental illness" - a ridiculous assertion and generalisation.

Sadly that sort of ideologically driven verbiage may take in some naive individuals. However a greater ability to spot disinformation should be expected from those in goverment or leaders in the churches!

Can you reference this report please?

SilverBear · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
Your comment has emboldened me to overcome my fear of persecution and tendency to tip-toe around people with almost pathologically oversensitive feelings and point out that its true of LGB folk equally if not even more so.

In some countries a few prominent LGB folk have got nearly everything up to and including adopted trophy children. If as some would have us believe, gay men are a varient of humanity without the needed sexual attractions to procreate with the opposite sex - what do they want kids for?

Maybe they should just sign up for some therapy and see if it enables them to partake of the Creator's natural, fun and pleasurable route to having kids, instead going round the world to find a willing lesbian they can artificially impregnate, and then removing the child from its birth mother - to live with them, two men who haven't the first clue about babies?

A Child is Not a Trophy – nor an option for life-fulfillment - United Families International

And they cannot play the victim card so easily now, and really they have not much left to complain about now they have got all these concessions from some spineless politicians - so they make up a fiction (not much new there) about psychoanalysis and reparative therapies, that some naive folks all too easily believe.

Now I wouldn't want to actually trample on anyones's precious feelings. But there are kids dying in war torn countries - before they reach the age of reason - others without clean water and some who could be easily saved from going blind - I don't know - maybe they haven't suffered as much as a gay man who has been for psychotherapy - they certainly dont seem to complain as much? But could we focus on or at least pray about that now for a change?

So are heterosexual couples that adopt just in search of a trophy or does this only apply to people you choose to hate?

SilverBear · Feb 12, 2021

ken777 said:
Identity politics is now dictating what people can say. The accusation of "homophobic" terrifies out MPs, academics, sportspeople, etc. because the piranha pack can destroy a career.

An Aboriginal spokeswoman was accused on the ABC (our national, publicly funded broadcaster) of racism because she did not toe the PC line. A sportswoman, who now leads a church which regards homosexual acts as sin, was attacked recently because she was given an award for tennis achievements of world class.

The new law follows the same trend - trying to protect one group while denying freedom to another group.

no they are just facing the consequences of the things they say just like is someone who makes racist or anti-Semitic comments.

PloverWing · Feb 12, 2021

dms1972 said:
In some countries a few prominent LGB folk have got nearly everything up to and including adopted trophy children. If as some would have us believe, gay men are a varient of humanity without the needed sexual attractions to procreate with the opposite sex - what do they want kids for?

This is such an offensive description of gay parents.

I don't know the couple in the article you linked to, so I can't speak to how good they are as parents. And, like you, I have misgivings about surrogacy, so we might have some agreement there.

But, in general, LGB people are people, and they do (or don't) want children for the same reasons that straight people do (or don't) want children.

I am thinking of 4 couples who are close to me. One is a married gay couple who adopted a hearing-impaired son and are great parents to him. (Despite being men -- did you really say that men would have no clue what to do with a baby?) Another is a lesbian widow who is similarly a great parent to her two daughters. A third is a lesbian couple who are planning to adopt in a few years; both have experience with young children and are good with children.

And a fourth couple is a straight couple who are infertile and are in the process of adopting their foster daughter. If you think it's selfish and wrong to adopt children, remember that you're condemning this last couple, too.

I accept that you believe same-sex marriage is wrong, and I accept that that is the position of your church. But adopted children are not "trophy children", and children conceived through medical interventions are likewise not "trophy children".

ken777 · Feb 12, 2021

PloverWing said:
I accept that you believe same-sex marriage is wrong, and I accept that that is the position of your church.

It is also the position of Christian Forums: a poster cannot present same-sex marriage as a viable option in Christian morality.

Philip_B · Feb 12, 2021

ken777 said:
It is also the position of Christian Forums: a poster cannot present same-sex marriage as a viable option in Christian morality.

We are trying to allow adult and respectful conversation on these topics in this forum. As this is a new allowance for this forum, please try to go easy on the report button. Think before you post and consider if your comments could be considered promotion. Think before you report if someone is trying to promote or just making a misstep. Give each other the benefit of the doubt before reporting and let staff review and work with you on where the boundaries are.

Remember, discussion and debate about the morality of homosexuality or same-sex marriage is not allowed.

ken777 · Feb 12, 2021

"CF has taken the stand that marriage was established by God who created us male and female (Genesis 1:27-28). We regard marriage as a sacred institution that symbolizes the mysterious bond between Christ and His church (Ephesians 5:23-24, Ephesians 5:32). We believe that marriage is much more than a civil contract between two persons, it is a sacred joining together of a man and a woman into one flesh, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Genesis 2:21-25). Therefore, we only recognize heterosexual marriages here at CF."

In Australia Vic Government trying to pass laws that criminalise preaching

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