How easy is the KJV to understand?

In correct KJV English...

  • God created Eve for Adam as a help meet.

    Votes: 8 66.7%
  • God created Eve for Adam as a meet help.

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • The "quick and the dead" are the "speedy and the dead."

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The "quick and the dead" are the "alive and the dead."

    Votes: 12 100.0%
  • The "quick and the dead" are the "intelligent and the dead."

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In Romans 1:13, "let hitherto" means "prevented hitherto."

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • In Romans 1:13, "let hitherto" means "forbidden hitherto."

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • In Romans 1:13, "let hitherto" means "allowed hitherto."

    Votes: 8 66.7%
  • In 1 Corinthians 10:25, all kinds of food are sold in a shambles.

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • In 1 Corinthians 10:25, only meat is sold in a shambles.

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12

ViaCrucis

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Not at all. It is written...

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

All Scripture (not just some) is given by inspiration of God. So they are God's very words to us because they were inspired by God.



While the faith starts with the gospel, the faith is more than the gospel, friend.
There are many instructions in God's Word for us to do by having the right set of Scriptures.
Commands are changed in Modern Translations.

A List of Commands Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJV and Modern Translations):

#1. One Aspect of the Great Commission Command Is Changed.
As a part of the great commission: Matthew 28:19 in the Modern Translations slightly alters the command of Jesus to say: “make disciples.” The original words in Matthew 28:19 in the KJV say: “teach all nations,” and not “make disciples. ” We cannot make disciples. Only God can truly do that. For one person plants, another person waters, but it is God that gives the increase (See: 1 Corinthians 3:6). We cannot force a person to be a disciple. We cannot truly mold and make a disciple. It is God who works upon the hearts of men to follow Him. We simply teach (i.e. we plant and water) but it is God that gives the increase.

#2. The Details of the Command of The True Way To Test a Spirit of Antichrist is Changed:
The command says, “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1); Many of your Modern Translations fail the details of this test that is explained in verse 3. The KJV says “every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,” but Modern Translations do not say this. Therefore, they fail to pass this test by not admitting this truth. Why is admitting that Jesus is come in the flesh important? Because it is about the Incarnation. Can a person deny the Incarnation of Jesus Christ and be of God? Modern Translations water down the Incarnation in 1 Timothy 3:16, as well. The King James correctly says "God was manifest in the flesh," and yet the watered down version bibles say "He was manifested in the flesh." Here again, many Modern Translations fail the test of how we check to see if a spirit is of the spirit of Antichrist or not by denying how God was manifest in the flesh (i.e. a denial of the Incarnation). How does this affect us? Well, if I wanted to show forth the truth to a person who denied the Incarnation, my battle would be severely crippled if I had a Modern Translation. Also, if Rick ran into a false spirit claiming to be Jesus, then Rick could test this spirit with the proper test from 1 John 4:3 in the KJV. But if Rick was a Modern Translations fan and he hated the KJV, he could potentially be deceived because he did not have the proper test.

#3. The Command To Study God's Word To Show Yourself Approved Unto God is Changed:
2 Timothy 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Modern Translations are confusing on this point and they say "work hard to present yourself approved unto God." The context is rightly dividing the Word of truth (Scripture). Why is this important? Well, we are living in the last days where men of God are questioning the Bible, or they are looking to something extra in addition to the Bible (like visions, dreams, revelations, prophecies, other holy books, etc.). God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).

#4. The Command To Not Exercise Authority Like the Gentiles Do is Subtly Altered.
The Command:
“It shall not be so among you:”
"let him be your minister"
"let him be your servant.”

Matthew 20:25-27 says, “You know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant.”
Matthew 10:27 correctly says in the King James “whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant.” Modern Translations say, “and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,” Okay. There is a big difference between a ”servant” and a “slave.” One is obligated to do servitude and the other is a servant by choice. I can imagine how this verse could be misused by certain Christian cults, or really bad people, etc.; How is this possible? Because they would be using a Modern Translation as the basis for their authority and not the King James.

#5. The Command “Do violence To No Man” in Luke 3:14 is Changed.
The King James Bible correctly says “Do violence to no man” in Luke 3:14. Yet, Modern Translations say, ““Do not extort money from anyone…”; The Bible already covers the topic of extortioners and how we are not to have fellowship with any brother who is an extortioner (1 Corinthians 5:9-11), for extortioners will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). It is no surprise that when I bring up the teaching of Non Resistance to a Christian today, they are appalled by the idea. I believe this is because most of them (not all) are reading from a Modern Translation, and or they are influenced by their experience in the army, or their use of physical combat, etc.

Bonus: A Doctrine That Relates to the Lord’s Commands is Changed:

#1. A Doctrine on the Lord’s Commands in 1 Corinthians 14:37 is Subtly Altered.
In the King James it is correctly stated, “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). The King James Bible says “commandments” plural, and Modern Translation Bibles say “commandment” as in reference to a singular command. The Modern Translations are erroneously suggesting that Paul’s most recent discussion is a command of the Lord here when in reality the truth (according to the KJV) is that all of Paul’s writings should be regarded as the commandments (plural) of the Lord (and not just one command based on his most recent discussion). This is important to understand because some Christians today falsely think that Paul writings are not always backed by the authority of our Lord (Note: Yes, I am aware of 1 Corinthians 7. I believe Paul in this instance is merely relaying the difference between the Lord’s specific command that He gave us vs. what Paul commanded us. This does not mean some of Paul’s teachings are not authoritative Scripture).

Before I potentially waste my time and energy, if I actually respond to all the things you've brought up here, and present my sources from the original language where applicable, is that going to matter to you?

Will it matter to you that, for example, the Greek word δοῦλος (doulos) does actually mean "slave"? Will it matter to you that modern translations do contain "and this is of the spirit of antichrist"?

I'm more than happy to address what you've written, but if it's not going to matter to you then should I even bother?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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GreekOrthodox

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Translating this from Greek to English according to Google, this says:
“When my people developed a philosophy, your people were still hovering over trees.”

Well, speaking words that nobody knows is confusion. But God is not the author of confusion. Paul said, “Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:” (2 Corinthians 3:12).

FYI, the line is from My Big Fat Greek Wedding, but I was trying to copy it from the movie. “When my people were developing philosophy your people were still swinging from trees.”

My problem is that English is not everyone's main language, let alone the English of the KJV.

My boss is from Kenya, a coworker is from India, my son's godmother is Russian, a goodly number of my church are fluent in modern Greek. Personally, I read Koine Greek, French, some Latin, and some German and I can muddle my way through some Yiddish. I used to be fluent in spoken French but that was years ago. My spoken Koine Greek is okay if I can chant my way through it even if the Greeks shudder more often than not.

Do I value the KJV myself? Yes but that was what we used growing up even though in church we used was the Weimar Bible, in German. English for me is just one of many languages and there is nothing special about it. As we joked growing up, God's first words were "Es werde Licht!", therefore God's language is German.

As for the LXX being a "fraud", the KJV was authorized by a possibly homosexual king who wanted to limit Puritanism in England. So why should I care what a heretical king of a heretical church broken from yet another heretical church trying to limit a heresy has to say about the Scriptures.... just saying.
 
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FYI, the line is from My Big Fat Greek Wedding, but I was trying to copy it from the movie. “When my people were developing philosophy your people were still swinging from trees.”

My problem is that English is not everyone's main language, let alone the English of the KJV.

My boss is from Kenya, a coworker is from India, my son's godmother is Russian, a goodly number of my church are fluent in modern Greek. Personally, I read Koine Greek, French, some Latin, and some German and I can muddle my way through some Yiddish. I used to be fluent in spoken French but that was years ago. My spoken Koine Greek is okay if I can chant my way through it even if the Greeks shudder more often than not.

Do I value the KJV myself? Yes but that was what we used growing up even though in church we used was the Weimar Bible, in German. English for me is just one of many languages and there is nothing special about it. As we joked growing up, God's first words were "Es werde Licht!", therefore God's language is German.

As for the LXX being a "fraud", the KJV was authorized by a possibly homosexual king who wanted to limit Puritanism in England. So why should I care what a heretical king of a heretical church broken from yet another heretical church trying to limit a heresy has to say about the Scriptures.... just saying.

The world language today is English. If we are to follow God's new pattern with writing of the New Testament, He would be choosing languages that would be most effective to spreading the gospel, and His New Testament commands. We see God did not continue to keep the Scriptures written in Hebrew, but He decided to use Greek for the NT Scriptures. Why? Because it would be more effective to the spreading of His Word. At the time, Greek was one of the influencing languages at that time. Greek was often a term synomous with Gentile and salvation went out to the Gentiles (When the Jewish nation rejected their Messiah). But the point here is that God chooses a language that can spread His Word more effectively. He did this when the KJB was translated into English, as well. For today, English is the world language.

World language - Wikipedia
10 Reasons Why English Is The World’s Language - English Harmony

As for the report of the king's reputation in that he was a Sodomite: Well, we were not actually there to witness what had actually happened. I take man made history with a grain of salt. For it is written:

“Let God be true, and every human being a liar.” (Romans 3:4).

As for the churches that helped to translate the KJB:

God can use imperfect people to accomplish His plans or goals. I believe John Wesley was the one who got it right after the formation of the KJB.

I don't agree that the Greek Orthodox church is biblical because they pray to the dead, they include the apocryphal books that clearly go against Scripture, and they celebrate certain holy days that are not exactly prescribed as a part of the New Testament. They also kiss statues (Which again is looked upon as being bad according to the Bible). They also hold services only in Greek, which is a problem if somebody speaks another language. Unlike here in the States, church services can be include services in Spanish, and other languages. So there is no rule saying services must be exclusively in English only.

The KJB has been translated into many languages, as well.


There are even more. But the point is that God's perfect Word is spreading out.
It is going out to the people. This would be in line with the great commission.
 
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RDKirk

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2 Timothy 2:15 says study to shew yourself approved unto God.
This command is removed in Modern Translations. I will admit, the KJV does have some difficult words. In my recent study, one of the words I have come to know better is “lest.” The definition changes based on the context. I have found that it can mean “to the avoid the risk of” or it can mean: “otherwise,” etc.; I used to think this word meant “unless," but this is not the case. “Lest” and “unless” are similar but they are not exactly the same thing.



I believe that, too.
But if God's Word has not been preserved in our world language today, then His Word has not been preserved. Nobody truly can know the original languages with 100% certainty. A person has to grow up in that culture to truly know them. These cultures are long gone and dead.

I don't believe God is the God of the dead, but of the living.
If His words only existed in dead languages only, this means that God is not able to speak in our living culture today with a language that we are little more familiar with or able to understand (by doing simple English word studies).



In all honesty, the Old Testament can be very difficult to read at times. The gospels and the books of Paul are pretty easy for the most part. Acts is kind of difficult at times. But this is why God wants us to study to (shew) show ourselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15). Lately, I have been looking up words in the KJV, and taking notes, and it has been very fruitful for me. I appreciate it more than just reading a watered down Modern Translation that butchers the beloved truth that I hold so dear. Sure, a Modern Translation reads more easily, but there are so many changes for the worse within them, and not they are not for the better.

There is a saying. Nothing good in life comes easy.

But even the wordy "study" has subtly shifted meaning over time. In KJV English, "study" means "be diligent." It did not imply putting one's head into a book (there weren't very many books back then).
 
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Before I potentially waste my time and energy, if I actually respond to all the things you've brought up here, and present my sources from the original language where applicable, is that going to matter to you?

I am always surprised when folks give me this kind of reply. Don't do it for me, but do it to help somebody else who may come across this forum reading and looking for the truth. So if what you say is indeed the truth that is in-line with God's Word, such a truth will not return void.

You said:
Will it matter to you that, for example, the Greek word δοῦλος (doulos) does actually mean "slave"? Will it matter to you that modern translations do contain "and this is of the spirit of antichrist"?

I believe Modern Translations have been tainted. In many of them, the devil's name is placed within them. You will not find this to be the case with the KJB.

Anyways, i am asking not so as to receive a cryptic or mysterious response, but I am asking because I want to be able to see what you actually believe in regards to what Bible you think is the ONE Bible that we should only use. But this does not appear to be the case because you said no Bible is perfect. This means you and or some other religious guys must be the artibers of truth in deciding what is true, and not true in the Bible (Instead of letting God's Word to correct us instead).
 
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RDKirk

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I love word studies in God's Word:

“And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help 1 meet 2 for him.”
(Genesis 2:18).

1. help: helper
2. meet: suitable, proper, fitting​

It is saying that God will make a helper suitable for Adam.

And if you do an OT study of the Hebrew word translated as "help," you find that Eve was actually Adam's "rescue."
 
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But even the wordy "study" has subtly shifted meaning over time. In KJV English, "study" means "be diligent." It did not imply putting one's head into a book (there weren't very many books back then).

2 Timothy 3:16-17 follows after 2 Timothy 2:15. So it is the context. Study to show yourself approved unto God. Why? Because if we don't study the Scriptures, we can be rebuked, and corrected by the Scriptures according to 2 Timothy 3:16-17. For God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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And if you do an OT study of the Hebrew word translated as "help," you find that Eve was actually Adam's "rescue."

Anyone can just say that, but you actually have to prove that with what the Word of God says. In reality, we know that Eve influenced Adam to eat of the wrong tree. The true person who rescues us is the Lord Jesus Christ. It's not any woman. A person can have a happy marriage and still be condemned to hell.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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And if you do an OT study of the Hebrew word translated as "help," you find that Eve was actually Adam's "rescue."

Lord knows my wife rescues me a lot. "Where are my glasses?" "On your head..."
 
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Meh, I consider the KJV as the leftovers of a poor translation by a heretical church that schismed from a heretical church. So it means nothing to me.

That really does not address anything that I said. But okay. You can believe as you wish. But don't say that I didn't tell you the truth.
 
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But even the wordy "study" has subtly shifted meaning over time. In KJV English, "study" means "be diligent." It did not imply putting one's head into a book (there weren't very many books back then).

The devil does not want people to study God's Word. He would rather they wouldn't do that. Altering 2 Timothy 2:15 to say otherwise is clearly an attack upon God's Word. For God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. For Jesus was able to defeat the enemy by quoting Scripture. But if we did not know of the importance of studying God's Word to be approved unto God, then we would not take studying God's Word as seriously and we would not have any way of using our sword properly.
 
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pescador

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I'm the opposite, I highly dislike many other translations because they either leave things out or it's translated so wrong that the whole meaning of verses will change. I think kjv is the best.

It's unfortunate that you don't understand the principles of translation.

1) You must have reliable source documents. There are no original sources; the best available are copies, many from centuries after the originals were created. The KJV is based on a very limited set of sources compared to what is available today.

2) Translators must search for both literal and figurative meanings since there is no one-to-one correspondence between the source language and the target language. The meaning of words, figures of speech, idioms, etc. make a so-called "word-for-word translation" impossible. For example, we might say "it's raining cats and dogs" to describe a severe storm but somebody from another culture would be astonished if this was taken literally.

3) The target culture is separated from the original culture by thousands of years, so accurately interpreting what the Bible text meant to the ancient cultures can be very difficult.

4) The KJV, like every other English translation, is not a word-for-word translation. It is written in a form of English that is 400+ years old and is no longer in use by any culture in the entire world (including England).

5) The translators must decide what is meant, often from conflicting sources. Mistakes are made by copyists and sometimes overzealous scribes added to the source texts. (The "long ending" of Mark and the parable of the woman caught in adultery are two examples).

No matter which translation you use it's necessary to clearly understand the language used. The KJV uses language that is obsolete, possibly leading to poor understanding. Here is an example...

Luke 14:7-10, "7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.

8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;

9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Here is the same section from the NIV, "When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Which of these two is clearer, the KJV or the NIV? If you're honest you'll have to admit that you must re-translate the KJV Englyshe into the language that you use and clearly understand every day, since nobody speaks or even thinks in a dead version of English. "So what this means" -- a common phrase used by pastors, etc. -- is an interpretation on-the fly of what the Bible is actually saying.

In summary, there are many, many Bible translations, most of which have been created for our clearest understanding of the Bible's message. Therefore, the answer to the OP is the KJV is difficult to [clearly] understand for almost all Bible readers. For all intents, it's written in a "foreign" language whose use died out long ago.
 
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It's unfortunate that you don't understand the principles of translation.

1) You must have reliable source documents. There are no original sources; the best available are copies, many from centuries after the originals were created. The KJV is based on a very limited set of sources compared to what is available today.

2) Translators must search for both literal and figurative meanings since there is no one-to-one correspondence between the source language and the target language. The meaning of words, figures of speech, idioms, etc. make a so-called "word-for-word translation" impossible. For example, we might say "it's raining cats and dogs" to describe a severe storm but somebody from another culture would be astonished if this was taken literally.

3) The target culture is separated from the original culture by thousands of years, so accurately interpreting what the Bible text meant to the ancient cultures can be very difficult.

4) The KJV, like every other English translation, is not a word-for-word translation. It is written in a form of English that is 400+ years old and is no longer in use by any culture in the entire world (including England).

5) The translators must decide what is meant, often from conflicting sources. Mistakes are made by copyists and sometimes overzealous scribes added to the source texts. (The "long ending" of Mark and the parable of the woman caught in adultery are two examples).

No matter which translation you use it's necessary to clearly understand the language used. The KJV uses language that is obsolete, possibly leading to poor understanding. Here is an example...

Luke 14:7-10, "7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.

8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;

9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

Here is the same section from the NIV, "When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Which of these two is clearer, the KJV or the NIV? If you're honest you'll have to admit that you must re-translate the KJV Englyshe into the language that you use and clearly understand every day, since nobody speaks or even thinks in a dead version of English. "So what this means" -- a common phrase used by pastors, etc. -- is an interpretation on-the fly of what the Bible is actually saying.

In summary, there are many, many Bible translations, most of which have been created for our clearest understanding of the Bible's message. Therefore, the answer to the OP is the KJV is difficult to [clearly] understand for almost all Bible readers. For all intents, it's written in a "foreign" language whose use died out long ago.

The parables of Jesus were difficult to understand. In fact, the disciples misunderstood the words of Jesus on many occasions. So just because something is said in a way that is not always clear does not mean that such communication is not of the truth. This is why we are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15). But if you have a Modern Translation and that is all you knew, you would not know that God wants you to study to show yourself approve unto God if you read the KJB. For taking action in certain cases on what the Bible says without study can be problematic.

Anyways, I believe Modern Translations have many problems and the KJB has proven itself to be divine in origin on more than one occasion. A person can check out this truth for themselves in this thread here:

30 reasons why the KJB is the divine and pure Word of God for today
 
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ViaCrucis

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Not at all. It is written...

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).​

All Scripture (not just some) is given by inspiration of God. So they are God's very words to us because they were inspired by God.

You'll notice that I said Scripture was divinely inspired and profitable. So this is a straw man.

While the faith starts with the gospel, the faith is more than the gospel, friend.
There are many instructions in God's Word for us to do by having the right set of Scriptures.
Commands are changed in Modern Translations.

If you read my post, you'll see that I mentioned both Law and Gospel.

A List of Commands Changed in God's Word:
(Between the KJV and Modern Translations):

#1. One Aspect of the Great Commission Command Is Changed.
As a part of the great commission: Matthew 28:19 in the Modern Translations slightly alters the command of Jesus to say: “make disciples.” The original words in Matthew 28:19 in the KJV say: “teach all nations,” and not “make disciples. ” We cannot make disciples. Only God can truly do that. For one person plants, another person waters, but it is God that gives the increase (See: 1 Corinthians 3:6). We cannot force a person to be a disciple. We cannot truly mold and make a disciple. It is God who works upon the hearts of men to follow Him. We simply teach (i.e. we plant and water) but it is God that gives the increase.

The command is to μαθητεύσατε all nations. Matheteusate is the aorist active imperative second person grammatical form of matheteuo, itself the verb form of mathetes, "disciple". It literally means something like "actively disciple" or "make disciples". So yes, the command is to "make disciples of all nations". The Church is called to bring the Gospel, to baptize, and thus make disciples of all nations, and instructing them in all that Christ taught. Regeneration, conversion, etc--that is the work of God which is accomplished through the Means of Grace which Christ has instituted and given to His Church--to preach the Gospel and to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

#2. The Details of the Command of The True Way To Test a Spirit of Antichrist is Changed:
The command says, “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1); Many of your Modern Translations fail the details of this test that is explained in verse 3. The KJV says “every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,” but Modern Translations do not say this. Therefore, they fail to pass this test by not admitting this truth. Why is admitting that Jesus is come in the flesh important? Because it is about the Incarnation. Can a person deny the Incarnation of Jesus Christ and be of God? Modern Translations water down the Incarnation in 1 Timothy 3:16, as well. The King James correctly says "God was manifest in the flesh," and yet the watered down version bibles say "He was manifested in the flesh." Here again, many Modern Translations fail the test of how we check to see if a spirit is of the spirit of Antichrist or not by denying how God was manifest in the flesh (i.e. a denial of the Incarnation). How does this affect us? Well, if I wanted to show forth the truth to a person who denied the Incarnation, my battle would be severely crippled if I had a Modern Translation. Also, if Rick ran into a false spirit claiming to be Jesus, then Rick could test this spirit with the proper test from 1 John 4:3 in the KJV. But if Rick was a Modern Translations fan and he hated the KJV, he could potentially be deceived because he did not have the proper test.

I have not been able to find a single translation that doesn't include 1 John 4:3. And the reason behind the differences in 1 Timothy 3:16 has entirely to do with our available manuscripts, some of which read ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί and others read Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί.

Just because one reading feels preferable because it more strongly aligns with our beliefs does not make it the most faithful and accurate reading of the text. Yes, a stronger case for the Incarnation is found in the reading of theos rather than hos. That does not render the reading of hos false, or a denial of the Incarnation. The Incarnation is under no threat by this difference. Our concern should be what is the most faithful and accurate reading.

#3. The Command To Study God's Word To Show Yourself Approved Unto God is Changed:
2 Timothy 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Modern Translations are confusing on this point and they say "work hard to present yourself approved unto God." The context is rightly dividing the Word of truth (Scripture). Why is this important? Well, we are living in the last days where men of God are questioning the Bible, or they are looking to something extra in addition to the Bible (like visions, dreams, revelations, prophecies, other holy books, etc.). God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).

The word is σπούδασον, "be diligent", "work hard", "endeavor". So yes, that's what the text says and means. St. Paul instruct his protege Timothy to, in his capacity as a pastor, to be diligent, to endeavor strongly in his pastoral vocation and work, rightly dividing the word of truth--that is, to rightly speak on matters of faith and clearly articulate the word.

#4. The Command To Not Exercise Authority Like the Gentiles Do is Subtly Altered.
The Command:
“It shall not be so among you:”
"let him be your minister"
"let him be your servant.”

Matthew 20:25-27 says, “You know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant.”
Matthew 10:27 correctly says in the King James “whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant.” Modern Translations say, “and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,” Okay. There is a big difference between a ”servant” and a “slave.” One is obligated to do servitude and the other is a servant by choice. I can imagine how this verse could be misused by certain Christian cults, or really bad people, etc.; How is this possible? Because they would be using a Modern Translation as the basis for their authority and not the King James.

The word is δοῦλος, and it means "slave". So when St. Paul says that we are to no longer reckon ourselves slaves to sin, but rather slaves to God, he is explicitly using the language of a slave. At one time we were the property of sin, under its yolk and bondage; but now on account of our baptism by which we have died and been raised with Christ to new life, we have become alive to God. And therefore the former way of things should no longer be master over us; but rather we have a new master, a new Lord, Christ. And having been made slaves of God we are no longer mere slaves, but children and heirs.

#5. The Command “Do violence To No Man” in Luke 3:14 is Changed.
The King James Bible correctly says “Do violence to no man” in Luke 3:14. Yet, Modern Translations say, ““Do not extort money from anyone…”; The Bible already covers the topic of extortioners and how we are not to have fellowship with any brother who is an extortioner (1 Corinthians 5:9-11), for extortioners will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). It is no surprise that when I bring up the teaching of Non Resistance to a Christian today, they are appalled by the idea. I believe this is because most of them (not all) are reading from a Modern Translation, and or they are influenced by their experience in the army, or their use of physical combat, etc.

That's because the text says μηδένα διασείσητε, "extort none", "cause none to tremble", "agitate no one" etc. It means not to use their position of authority to intimidate, extort, or cause harm.

Bonus: A Doctrine That Relates to the Lord’s Commands is Changed:
#1. A Doctrine on the Lord’s Commands in 1 Corinthians 14:37 is Subtly Altered.
In the King James it is correctly stated, “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:37) (KJV). The King James Bible says “commandments” plural, and Modern Translation Bibles say “commandment” as in reference to a singular command. The Modern Translations are erroneously suggesting that Paul’s most recent discussion is a command of the Lord here when in reality the truth (according to the KJV) is that all of Paul’s writings should be regarded as the commandments (plural) of the Lord (and not just one command based on his most recent discussion). This is important to understand because some Christians today falsely think that Paul writings are not always backed by the authority of our Lord (Note: Yes, I am aware of 1 Corinthians 7. I believe Paul in this instance is merely relaying the difference between the Lord’s specific command that He gave us vs. what Paul commanded us. This does not mean some of Paul’s teachings are not authoritative Scripture).

Sure, in this case the Greek word ἐντολαί is in the plural case, so it means "commands" or "orders", But grammatically nothing really changes here--and it seems to depend on interpretive sentence structure in English. Paul says, "the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.", or we can translate it "that what I am writing you is the Lord’s command." or "the things I write to you are the commands of the Lord.". The point is Paul is arguing that he's not writing frivolously, but is writing with the authority of an apostle of Jesus Christ, and thus the things he instructs come from the Lord, not his mere opinion and feelings.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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RDKirk

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Anyone can just say that, but you actually have to prove that with what the Word of God says.

The word used for "help" in the text is עזר ezer. Let's see how scripture uses that word. We can find ezer 21 times in scripture.

Ge 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Ge 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.


Those two times it refers to Eve.

Ex 18:4 And the name of the other was Eliezer; for the God of my father, said he, was mine help, and delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh:

That use of ezer refers to God Himself.

De 33:7 And this is the blessing of Judah: and he said, Hear, LORD, the voice of Judah, and bring him unto his people: let his hands be sufficient for him; and be thou an help to him from his enemies.
De 33:26 There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun, who rideth upon the heaven in thy help, and in his excellency on the sky.
De 33:29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.


Ezer used three times, referring to God again.

Ps 20:2 Send thee help from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee out of Zion;
Ps 33:20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.
Ps 70:5 But I am poor and needy: make haste unto me, O God: thou art my help and my deliverer; O LORD, make no tarrying.
Ps 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
Ps 115:9 O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
Ps 115:10 O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
Ps 115:11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
Ps 121:1 « A Song of degrees. » I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.
Ps 121:2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.
Ps 124:8 Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.
Ps 146:5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:


Ezer appears a whopping 11 times in Psalms...all referring to God.

Isa 30:5 They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach.

That reference is not referring to God...but it's referring to people who were not ezer.

Eze 12:14 And I will scatter toward every wind all that are about him to help him, and all his bands; and I will draw out the sword after them.

Not referring to God this time, either, but clearly referring to people who could not be of rescue...clearly "rescue" is the meaning. This is God speaking the future of the prince of Jerusalem, saying plainly that there will be no rescue for him. So Eve was created by God to be the kind of rescue from total disaster that the prince of Jerusalem was not going to get.

Da 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Here again we are talking about people undergoing a terrible situation from which they will not get rescue.

Ho 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.

Referring to God again.

So we have 21 uses of ezer in the Old Testament. Sixteen times ezer refers to God Himself and clearly means "rescue." Three times it refers to people who need serious rescue...and don't get it. Twice it refers to Eve.

If we let scripture interpret scripture, ezer means "rescue."
 
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The word used for "help" in the text is עזר ezer. Let's see how scripture uses that word. We can find ezer 21 times in scripture.

Ge 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Ge 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.


Those two times it refers to Eve.

Ex 18:4 And the name of the other was Eliezer; for the God of my father, said he, was mine help, and delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh:

That use of ezer refers to God Himself.

De 33:7 And this is the blessing of Judah: and he said, Hear, LORD, the voice of Judah, and bring him unto his people: let his hands be sufficient for him; and be thou an help to him from his enemies.
De 33:26 There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun, who rideth upon the heaven in thy help, and in his excellency on the sky.
De 33:29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.


Ezer used three times, referring to God again.

Ps 20:2 Send thee help from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee out of Zion;
Ps 33:20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.
Ps 70:5 But I am poor and needy: make haste unto me, O God: thou art my help and my deliverer; O LORD, make no tarrying.
Ps 89:19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
Ps 115:9 O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
Ps 115:10 O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
Ps 115:11 Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.
Ps 121:1 « A Song of degrees. » I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.
Ps 121:2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.
Ps 124:8 Our help is in the name of the LORD, who made heaven and earth.
Ps 146:5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:


Ezer appears a whopping 11 times in Psalms...all referring to God.

Isa 30:5 They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach.

That reference is not referring to God...but it's referring to people who were not ezer.

Eze 12:14 And I will scatter toward every wind all that are about him to help him, and all his bands; and I will draw out the sword after them.

Not referring to God this time, either, but clearly referring to people who could not be of rescue...clearly "rescue" is the meaning. This is God speaking the future of the prince of Jerusalem, saying plainly that there will be no rescue for him. So Eve was created by God to be the kind of rescue from total disaster that the prince of Jerusalem was not going to get.

Da 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

Here again we are talking about people undergoing a terrible situation from which they will not get rescue.

Ho 13:9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.

Referring to God again.

So we have 21 uses of ezer in the Old Testament. Sixteen times ezer refers to God Himself and clearly means "rescue." Three times it refers to people who need serious rescue...and don't get it. Twice it refers to Eve.

If we let scripture interpret scripture, ezer means "rescue."

I can say that,

"The dog's bark could be heard all the way down the street, He scratched his paws against the bark of tree at the squirrel up in the tree (hoping to get the little guy)."​

As you can see there are two words spelled as "bark" but yet they have two different meanings. These are called homonyms and they do exist in the Bible.

For example: The “Word of God” can refer to two different things in Scripture and it depends on the context (of which one it is referring to). It can refer to the Living Word (Jesus) (Revelation 19:13), or it can refer to the Communicated Word (i.e. Scripture) (Luke 4:4).

Sons of God can refer to either a believer, or angels. It depends on the context. The same is true for the word, like: “help” (ʿēzer). I believe God is obviously our helper and rescuer in time of need. But I don't believe Eve was ever created to save Adam. She was created as a helper. She was created to compliment Adam. Nothing is said that Eve was created to save Adam. Adam did not need saving from anything. He needed a helper and one who was more suitable to compliment him. The animals could not do what Eve could. Nothing in the context of Scripture suggests that Eve was created to save Adam. In what way was Eve being a savior to Adam? If anything, we know that Eve is an example of being the exact opposite of being the hero of the story. It's why we are not to have woman teachers over men in the church. For Eve was first deceived who was in the transgression.

1 Timothy 2:11-14 says,
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”
 
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You'll notice that I said Scripture was divinely inspired and profitable. So this is a straw man.

You said, I quote:

“You're confusing the words of Scripture with the word of God. The ink and paper words that biblical authors wrote are very much theirs, it's that through these by the power and work of the Holy Spirit is God's word;” ~ ViaCrucis.

So what exactly do you mean by this statement above? Are you saying that some parts of the Bible are not the Word of God? Are you saying some parts of the Bible are not Scripture? Please clarify.

I quoted God's Word as saying,

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

I believe that when 2 Timothy 3:16-17 references Scripture, it is in reference to the Bible, and this can be referred to as the Word of God (i.e. the Communicated Word of God). Note: I also believe the Word of God can refer to Jesus, as well (Revelation 19:13).

You said:
If you read my post, you'll see that I mentioned both Law and Gospel.

Do you regard the Law as....

#1. The 613 Laws of Moses.
#2. The 613 Laws of Moses, and the hundreds of New Testament Commands.
#3. The hundreds of New Testament Commands.
#4. Other (please explain).

You said:
The command is to μαθητεύσατε all nations. Matheteusate is the aorist active imperative second person grammatical form of matheteuo, itself the verb form of mathetes, "disciple". It literally means something like "actively disciple" or "make disciples". So yes, the command is to "make disciples of all nations". The Church is called to bring the Gospel, to baptize, and thus make disciples of all nations, and instructing them in all that Christ taught. Regeneration, conversion, etc--that is the work of God which is accomplished through the Means of Grace which Christ has instituted and given to His Church--to preach the Gospel and to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Again, we cannot make disciples. Only God can. We can only teach. For one waters and another plants, but it is God who gives the increase. It is God who ultimately makes a disciple because their heart is regenerated by God. The Word of God convicts them to repent. We are just a messenger of God's Word and we don't make disciples. My Bible says Go and teach all nations. I believe that the 47 translators on the KJB knew Greek pretty well, and I don't believe they made a mistake.

You said:
I have not been able to find a single translation that doesn't include 1 John 4:3. And the reason behind the differences in 1 Timothy 3:16 has entirely to do with our available manuscripts, some of which read ὃς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί and others read Θεὸς ἐφανερώθη ἐν σαρκί.

Just because one reading feels preferable because it more strongly aligns with our beliefs does not make it the most faithful and accurate reading of the text. Yes, a stronger case for the Incarnation is found in the reading of theos rather than hos. That does not render the reading of hos false, or a denial of the Incarnation. The Incarnation is under no threat by this difference. Our concern should be what is the most faithful and accurate reading.

The final result is what we need to be concerned about because that is what people read. Most people are not scholars, and I don't think God requires us to be scholars. For God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. Anyone who compares 1 John 4:3 in a Modern Translation vs. the KJB can see the clear difference. Certain Modern Translations set up a denial of the Incarnation as a part of the testing of a spirit. The KJB does not have this problem and it passes the test. We see this happen yet again with 1 Timothy 3:16. It says He was manifest in the flesh in Modern Translations and yet the KJB says God was manifest in the flesh (Which defends the Incarnation and deity of Jesus Christ). We see a pattern going on here and it is not in good favor for the Modern Translations.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the enemy. Wouldn't the devil want to distort God's Word? Wouldn't the devil want to attack key doctrines of the faith in the Bible? This is how I see it because we are in a spiritual battle.

You said:
The word is σπούδασον, "be diligent", "work hard", "endeavor". So yes, that's what the text says and means. St. Paul instruct his protege Timothy to, in his capacity as a pastor, to be diligent, to endeavor strongly in his pastoral vocation and work, rightly dividing the word of truth--that is, to rightly speak on matters of faith and clearly articulate the word.

No. It says to study to show yourself approved unto God. This lines up with 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Rightly dividing the word of truth is more in line with study to show yourself approved unto God than being a worker to present yourself approved unto God. One can wrongfully think that one must work to show themselves approved unto God in the sense that they must act before they study in order to rightly divide the Word of truth. This is why the KJB is correct yet again. It gives us the more clear instruction here.

You said:
The word is δοῦλος, and it means "slave". So when St. Paul says that we are to no longer reckon ourselves slaves to sin, but rather slaves to God, he is explicitly using the language of a slave. At one time we were the property of sin, under its yolk and bondage; but now on account of our baptism by which we have died and been raised with Christ to new life, we have become alive to God. And therefore the former way of things should no longer be master over us; but rather we have a new master, a new Lord, Christ. And having been made slaves of God we are no longer mere slaves, but children and heirs.

No doubt I believe that the word “servant” can refer to a slave, but the point here is that in this particular instance in Matthew 10:27, it is more accurate to say “servant” because there are people today who could wrongfully abuse the idea that one must be a slave to a person in order to be chief or great. I have no doubt that God knows all things and He would be aware of Christian cults trying to distort this verse to their own ends by referring to how we must be slaves to them in order for us to be truly great.

You said:
That's because the text says μηδένα διασείσητε, "extort none", "cause none to tremble", "agitate no one" etc. It means not to use their position of authority to intimidate, extort, or cause harm.

Nope. It says do violence to no man. This truth is watered down today because many Christians today would rather carry a gun vs. do violence to no man. It is an attack upon a doctrine of our Lord. Most know extortion is wrong. Yet, non-resistance is hard to accept by many Christians today. Again, think about this from the enemy's perspective. What does the enemy have to gain by getting a person to doubt the teaching of Non-resistance? For the less verses that are in support of such a truth or doctrine, the more the enemy wins to prevent a person to follow God's plan and or will for their life.

You said:
Sure, in this case the Greek word ἐντολαί is in the plural case, so it means "commands" or "orders", But grammatically nothing really changes here--and it seems to depend on interpretive sentence structure in English. Paul says, "the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.", or we can translate it "that what I am writing you is the Lord’s command." or "the things I write to you are the commands of the Lord.". The point is Paul is arguing that he's not writing frivolously, but is writing with the authority of an apostle of Jesus Christ, and thus the things he instructs come from the Lord, not his mere opinion and feelings.

-CryptoLutheran

Again, this does not change the problem. People who only read the Bible in English can be confused if they think it only means a command (singular). This can lead them to think the wrong thing on what Paul was really saying. Paul was referring to commandments (plural). For there are people out there who only follow Jesus (and not the writings of Paul), and so they may think that Paul's writings should not be regarded as the Lord's commandments (plural).
 
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You said, I quote:

“You're confusing the words of Scripture with the word of God. The ink and paper words that biblical authors wrote are very much theirs, it's that through these by the power and work of the Holy Spirit is God's word;” ~ ViaCrucis.

So what exactly do you mean by this statement above? Are you saying that some parts of the Bible are not the Word of God? Are you saying some parts of the Bible are not Scripture? Please clarify.

Παῦλος δοῦλος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ κλητὸς ἀπόστολος ἀφωρισμένος εἰς εὐαγγέλιον θεοῦ - Romans 1:1

"Paul, [a] slave [of] Jesus Christ, called [to be an] apostle, set apart for God's good news."

St. Paul the Apostle wrote these words, they are his, he though to them and then wrote them (or, more accurately, said them out loud and then a scribe wrote them down).

I didn't choose Romans 1:1 for any special reason, it's totally random; the point is that these are actually Paul's words. God didn't write them, Paul did.

However, through the words which Paul wrote, God has chosen to speak His word. Thus we encounter the word of God in the Scriptures, the Scriptures proclaim God's word, communicate God's word. We hear the word of God when we encounter the Scriptures.

For this reason the Scriptures are said to be divinely inspired, authoritative, and so the Church calls them God's word.

I quoted God's Word as saying,

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

I believe that when 2 Timothy 3:16-17 references Scripture, it is in reference to the Bible, and this can be referred to as the Word of God (i.e. the Communicated Word of God). Note: I also believe the Word of God can refer to Jesus, as well (Revelation 19:13).

Paul intended to refer to the recognized books of Scripture of the time; but we apply what St. Paul said to all the books that we include and confess as Scripture. So while St. Paul could by no means have known that his letters would one day be read alongside the words of the ancient Prophets and held with the same reverence and significance; nevertheless the gravity of what he wrote, and it's confession as divinely inspired Scripture means that we have--as the Church--confessed and recognized the canonical Pauline epistles as divinely inspired Holy Scripture, as part of that section of the received Scriptures known as the New Testament.

Do you regard the Law as....

#1. The 613 Laws of Moses.
#2. The 613 Laws of Moses, and the hundreds of New Testament Commands.
#3. The hundreds of New Testament Commands.
#4. Other (please explain).

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. All which God commands is Law.

Again, we cannot make disciples. Only God can. We can only teach. For one waters and another plants, but it is God who gives the increase. It is God who ultimately makes a disciple because their heart is regenerated by God. The Word of God convicts them to repent. We are just a messenger of God's Word and we don't make disciples. My Bible says Go and teach all nations. I believe that the 47 translators on the KJB knew Greek pretty well, and I don't believe they made a mistake.



The final result is what we need to be concerned about because that is what people read. Most people are not scholars, and I don't think God requires us to be scholars. For God has chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith. Anyone who compares 1 John 4:3 in a Modern Translation vs. the KJB can see the clear difference. Certain Modern Translations set up a denial of the Incarnation as a part of the testing of a spirit. The KJB does not have this problem and it passes the test. We see this happen yet again with 1 Timothy 3:16. It says He was manifest in the flesh in Modern Translations and yet the KJB says God was manifest in the flesh (Which defends the Incarnation and deity of Jesus Christ). We see a pattern going on here and it is not in good favor for the Modern Translations.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the enemy. Wouldn't the devil want to distort God's Word? Wouldn't the devil want to attack key doctrines of the faith in the Bible? This is how I see it because we are in a spiritual battle.



No. It says to study to show yourself approved unto God. This lines up with 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Rightly dividing the word of truth is more in line with study to show yourself approved unto God than being a worker to present yourself approved unto God. One can wrongfully think that one must work to show themselves approved unto God in the sense that they must act before they study in order to rightly divide the Word of truth. This is why the KJB is correct yet again. It gives us the more clear instruction here.



No doubt I believe that the word “servant” can refer to a slave, but the point here is that in this particular instance in Matthew 10:27, it is more accurate to say “servant” because there are people today who could wrongfully abuse the idea that one must be a slave to a person in order to be chief or great. I have no doubt that God knows all things and He would be aware of Christian cults trying to distort this verse to their own ends by referring to how we must be slaves to them in order for us to be truly great.



Nope. It says do violence to no man. This truth is watered down today because many Christians today would rather carry a gun vs. do violence to no man. It is an attack upon a doctrine of our Lord. Most know extortion is wrong. Yet, non-resistance is hard to accept by many Christians today. Again, think about this from the enemy's perspective. What does the enemy have to gain by getting a person to doubt the teaching of Non-resistance? For the less verses that are in support of such a truth or doctrine, the more the enemy wins to prevent a person to follow God's plan and or will for their life.



Again, this does not change the problem. People who only read the Bible in English can be confused if they think it only means a command (singular). This can lead them to think the wrong thing on what Paul was really saying. Paul was referring to commandments (plural). For there are people out there who only follow Jesus (and not the writings of Paul), and so they may think that Paul's writings should not be regarded as the Lord's commandments (plural).

And best as I can see the rest of your post's arguments boils down to "nuh uh". Which doesn't really contribute anything.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Παῦλος δοῦλος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ κλητὸς ἀπόστολος ἀφωρισμένος εἰς εὐαγγέλιον θεοῦ - Romans 1:1

"Paul, [a] slave [of] Jesus Christ, called [to be an] apostle, set apart for God's good news."

St. Paul the Apostle wrote these words, they are his, he though to them and then wrote them (or, more accurately, said them out loud and then a scribe wrote them down).

I didn't choose Romans 1:1 for any special reason, it's totally random; the point is that these are actually Paul's words. God didn't write them, Paul did.

However, through the words which Paul wrote, God has chosen to speak His word. Thus we encounter the word of God in the Scriptures, the Scriptures proclaim God's word, communicate God's word. We hear the word of God when we encounter the Scriptures.

For this reason the Scriptures are said to be divinely inspired, authoritative, and so the Church calls them God's word. Paul intended to refer to the recognized books of Scripture of the time; but we apply what St. Paul said to all the books that we include and confess as Scripture. So while St. Paul could by no means have known that his letters would one day be read alongside the words of the ancient Prophets and held with the same reverence and significance; nevertheless the gravity of what he wrote, and it's confession as divinely inspired Scripture means that we have--as the Church--confessed and recognized the canonical Pauline epistles as divinely inspired Holy Scripture, as part of that section of the received Scriptures known as the New Testament.

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:15-16).

Peter is calling Paul's words here as Scripture. For Peter calls Paul's words as being hard to understand, and that there are those who are unlearned and unstable do wrest (twist) his words as they do other Scriptures to their own destruction.

As for your statement that Romans 1:1 is not Scripture:

This is really odd. What indication in Scripture brings you to this conclusion?
When does Holy Scripture start officially and when does it end in the Bible?
How can you tell? It sounds confusing.

You said:
1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. All which God commands is Law.

I used to believe that we had to obey both the Old and the New commands. But this is physically impossible. It is physically impossible to obey both the Old Law, and the New Law. First, the Old Law was fuilfilled upon the cross. The Old Law calls us to partake in animal sacrifices and the Aaronic priesthood. It's why the temple veil was torn. The old priesthood ended. Jesus is now our sacrifice and heavenly high priest. The Old Law required one to stone others if they broke the Law. Jesus taught us to forgive others and to turn the other cheek, and to not cast any stones. Paul taught us that vengeance belongs to God now. Circumcision is also no longer required like it was in the Old Covenant, either. This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says that the Law has changed.

You said:
And best as I can see the rest of your post's arguments boils down to "nuh uh". Which doesn't really contribute anything.

-CryptoLutheran

Not at all. I gave logical reasons to support my points.
 
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