ARE ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT?

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
you have come to the same conclusion by inserting sabbath where there is no mention of it. my conclusions are based on Genesis does not value the law of the sabbath enough to mention it's practice.

This is not true.As I have said:

"A poor method of studying the scriptures is to use the silence of scripture as proof of anything.However when you study the scriptures using the method the scriptures itself prescribes,then passages from one section of scripture can be used to fill in the blanks in others."

The method prescribed by scripture is found here:

Isaiah 28:
13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Because it is as described above you have missed much of what scripture says on the subject as you are apparently expecting to find it in one place.So nothing in Genesis and hence your faulty conclusion about the Sabbath.

DamianWarS · Feb 7, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
You try and make an argument of silence

LoveGodsWord said:
Nowhere in scriptures is there any hint that God's people before MOSES did not know about or keep God's Sabbath or any one of Gods’ 10 commandments as already shown in Genesis 26:5 and Exodus 16 and elsewhere.

Whose making an argument from silence again? If you accuse me of something try not turn around and do exactly what you accuse me off

LoveGodsWord said:
According to the scriptures Sabbath was given to mankind before law

Exactly my point. This means sabbath is independent of law. Yet you define it only through law which would be inconsistent to your own point. What did it mean before law?

LoveGodsWord said:
Why does it matter even if you claim Gods' people did not keep God's laws before Exodus 20 (which has already been shown to not be true through the scriptures) when God gave his law at Exodus 20?

It's shown not to be true from Exodus 16 which I myself bring up. Why are forcing a Ex 20 position on me? Is it so you can say Ex 16 proves me wrong and are trying to trap me by affirming Ex 20 so you can go back into your circular arguments? My contention is sabbath law is not defined in Genesis not whatever it is your rephrased it to. You agree with this yourself saying "According to the scriptures Sabbath was given to mankind before law" so what's the issue? Sabbath came before law ergo sabbath is not law.

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
clearly, we have come to different conclusions despite reading the same texts so you're going to have to do better than just say read the letters of Paul and James. I could say the same thing to you, but that's not a sustainable argument.

But you have done that which you claim above,by just stating,"Christ explicitly tells us which is the greatest commandment and it's not one of the 10 so why do you jump to the 10 and not the commandment Christ tells us is the greatest when you see the word "commandment"?",without explaining how you have arrived at this conclusion when others have concluded that this was in fact a reference to the ten.Is it really true that loving God has nothing to do with the ten?

After repeating the ten in the book of Deuteronomy in recounting the giving of the ten,the word declared:

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates."(Deuteronomy 6:4-9)

John gives the understanding also:

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."(I John 5:3)

So to love God is not only about our feelings toward Him but includes doing His commands.

Both Paul and James help us to understand that the ten can be summarized to say,love God and love our neighbour.

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law."(James 2:8-11)

"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."(Romans 13:8,9)

comprehended - to sum up:

Can you figure out which of the ten commands specifically point to loving God?

DamianWarS · Feb 7, 2021

safswan said:
when you could have easily looked up the word actually used and see that it was not sabbath.

Are you suggesting Jesus spoke Greek?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Whose making an argument from silence again? If you accuse me of something try not turn around and do exactly what you accuse me off

Not really dear friend. You were the one trying to make an argument in silence claiming because the word Sabbath was not used before Exodus means that no one kept it did you not? I was only showing you through the scriptures your argument of silence is not biblical and in fact the scriptures teach that both the Sabbath and God's laws were given and practiced by God's people revealed through the "spoken" Word of God but you refuse to address this post and the scriptures provided in post # 291 linked that you conveniently choose to ignore and not respond to right?

DamianWarS said:
Exactly my point. This means sabbath is independent of law. Yet you define it only through law which would be inconsistent to your own point. What did it mean before law?

Nope. The Sabbath was given before the fall and therefore before the law was given as part of God's plan of salvation for all mankind but was a part of the law also after the fall of mankind. We know that the scriptures teach that Gods' people knew about God's laws and practiced them before they were given by Moses as shown already in Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3; Genesis 26:5; Genesis 39:9; Exodus 16; Deuteronomy 31:24-26 etc... through the spoken Word. We also know that after Egypt in Exodus 20:1-17 God repeated the spoken Law of God and gave his people the written Laws of God on written with his own finger on two tables of stone and that the Sabbath was included as God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments as a requirement for Christian living. Now dear friend I did notice you did not answer a question asked of you in a previous post? Was there any reason for that? I will re-post my question to you at the end of this post.

DamianWarS said:
It's shown not to be true from Exodus 16 which I myself bring up. Why are forcing a Ex 20 position on me? Is it so you can say Ex 16 proves me wrong and are trying to trap me by affirming Ex 20 so you can go back into your circular arguments? My contention is sabbath law is not defined in Genesis not whatever it is your rephrased it to. You agree with this yourself saying "According to the scriptures Sabbath was given to mankind before law" so what's the issue? Sabbath came before law ergo sabbath is not law.

Actually Exodus 16 does prove you wrong. It shows that God's people knew about the Sabbath before Gods' law was given at Mt Sinai and before the Mosaic book of the law was ever written. There was no written law or Mosaic law written in Exodus 16. So Exodus 16 along with all the other scriptures provided to you already from Genesis already shows that God's people knew about God's laws before Mt Sinai (see post # 291 linked). You chose to simply ignore this post and the scriptures provided in them that disagree with you.

Now the question I asked you in post 316 linked that you also ignored and will not respond to was .... Why does it matter even if you claim Gods' people did not keep God's laws before Exodus 20 (which has already been shown to not be true through the scriptures) when God gave his law at Exodus 20? The fact remains, God's law was given and it is the 10 commandments in the new covenant scriptures that give us the knowledge of what sin is today according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin according to James 2:10-11. Gods 4th commandment Sabbath is one of God's 10 commandments that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Christ says it himself, he invites us to come to him and he will give us rest. What word do you think be used when he said "rest". He is also "Lord of the Sabbath" so our participation of the Sabbath comes under his authority

If you are referring to Matthew 11:28,then as I said in post #319,the word used for rest is not Sabbath.So the question remains.

Where does scripture say Jesus is our Sabbath?

LoveGodsWord · Feb 7, 2021

safswan said:
If you are referring to Matthew 11:28,then as I said in post #319,the word used for rest is not Sabbath.So the question remains.

Where does scripture say Jesus is our Sabbath?

Yes the only definition of Sabbath is found in the scriptures in God's 4th commandment, specifically in Exodus 20:10. Seems some people want to make up their own definition of what the Sabbath is and turn Jesus in to the seventh day of creation. The continuing logic of this false teaching according to Genesis 2:1-3 would then be that God turned himself into the seventh day, blessed himself and made himself a holy day. Not sure how this makes any sense and not sure how others cannot see this.

guevaraj · Feb 7, 2021

LoveGodsWord said:
Yes the only definition of Sabbath is found in the scriptures in God's 4th commandment, specifically in Exodus 20:10. Seems some people want to make up their own definition of what the Sabbath is and turn Jesus in to the seventh day of creation. The continuing logic of this false teaching according to Genesis 2:1-3 would then be that God turned himself into the seventh day, blessed himself and made himself a holy day. Not sure how this makes any sense and not sure how others cannot see this.

Brother, everyone is fighting for something easier than what God really reveals because they know this world will hate them and they want the world to love them.

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’ (John 15:18-25 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
The conditional arrangement of the Sabbath is implied based on a clear starting point. Even if there was regular participation of the Sabbath pre-law scripture does not value it enough to mention it and keeping it may indeed honor God but with the absence of the law it doesn't come under the law.

You continue to give your opinions rather than use scripture to establish what you believe.Remember the question was:

"Which scripture is it that supports your view that the Sabbath was conditional and not universal?"

Your beliefs,based on your own philosophy,rather than on scripture, implies a lack of scriptural support for those beliefs and a continuation of your use of apparent scriptural silence to establish a doctrine.

DamianWarS said:
So it doesn't matter if Adam, Noah and Abraham kept the Sabbath since there was no commandment to do so there would be no requirement to keep it and another reason why sabbath is not moral law because it wasnt established as law since the beginning.

You continue to argue from silence and in one fell swoop deny that,what you call,"innat moral laws,",are actual that,since they fit the definition you gave for what is not moral.

"is not moral law because it wasnt established as law since the beginning."

But scripture,in other ways,does declare murder to be a sin from the beginning even though there is no mention of this law at the beginning.

"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."(I John 3:12)

Also the fact that Cain was punished for his act shows it was wrong and was something he should have been aware of.(Genesis 4:11-13)

Hence your argument that,no mention of a law means,it was not in effect nor was it important,is not valid and is in fact proof that you are one of those snared a-la Isaiah 28:13.

DamianWarS said:
So I already know what you're thinking that this must mean killing, stealing, lying all must be the same and free to practice pre-law. If you would think this it would be silly because these are innat moral laws, things that are harmful against each other where sabbath does not logically fit that. You may call it moral law but you do so outside of logic and arbitrarily. Scripture doesn't uses these terms so if we are to label something as moral or shadow then we need to do so out of a set criteria. It seems your set criteria is only is it the 10 commandments which is a very poor argument and arbitrary as it has no other support.

I believe these laws were in effect,not because of your own definition of them being,"innat moral laws," as you claim,but because though not mentioned in the beginning,scripture clearly shows these laws were in effect.Scripture also clearly doesn't use the term moral nor ceremonial but the term shadows/figures is scriptural and refers to a specific set of laws and systems.Hence my question to you about.

"What is it that makes the Sabbath ceremonial and other laws moral?What is your definition of these terms and the scriptures which support the definition?"

There is no scriptural definition nor any scriptural support for your definition,but only your biased definition used to support your point.Others have done the same and come to a conclusion contrary to yours.As I showed:

WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

DamianWarS said:
Pre-law also addresses may of these moral violations (Cain probably violated a pile of them) and they are recognized as wrong and punished so a form of law was established but sabbath is just absent from it.

Just as the Sabbath was not mentioned as a law,neither were the others.However,just as they were in effect,so too was the Sabbath law.

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Because the Sabbath is a system of rules imposed upon a specific reoccuring day that does not apply to any other day and we practice it in rememberance (which is sort of the definition of ceremonial). If we call it moral then why is working sometimes good and sometimes bad? It is then conditionally moral and not universally moral such as stealing, killing, and lying would be. It also has no clear wrong/right action it simply is done in a manor in rememberance and we rest because God rested. so calling it a moral law would be inspite of everything saying it is a ceremonial law.

Just as I thought,no scriptural definition since these terms are not used in scripture and can be defined to suit ones agenda.Remember what others,who do like you,said about the Sabbath:

WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

They believed it was moral according to their definition.

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
Who's talking about replacing anything? Christ was there when the Sabbath was made. He can give it because it's his to give.

As I have said before and am now presenting for the third time since you have ignored the two prior presentations:

There is no scripture which teaches Jesus is our Sabbath.This is the rest that God is calling us to:

THE TRUE REST OF THE LORD

This was previously presented in response to your question in a thread titled:

What rest does Christ invite us into

It is not about Jesus replacing the seventh day Sabbath but is a call God is constantly sending out to His people pleading with them to turn from sin.

safswan · Feb 7, 2021

DamianWarS said:
You seem to have come to your conclusions before taking time to understand my posts. This would be called a bias.

You said:

"Sabbath is also a sign of God's everlasting covenant with Israel.... do you see where I'm going?"

My response was:

"If you would only read,quote or at the very least cite the scriptures you base your opinions on then you would see they say nothing concerning the Sabbath being the sign of any covenant.But then you don't really want to know,do you?"

I know there are no scriptures which say this,and an admission of this would destroy your argument and make where you are going irrelevant and hence I am certain you don't really want to know.There is a difference between one who is striving to understanding scripture and those who have to avoid scripture while advancing their own philosophy.Which one are you?

Danthemailman · Feb 9, 2021

DamianWarS said:
The noun first appears in Exodus. The verb is where you expect it to be in Genesis 2:2,3. But the practice of keeping Sabbath is absent in Genesis along with its instruction from Adam to Abraham as well as the NT writers that wrote about them, not once is there even a hint of sabbath practice.. Sabbath law isn't established until Moses..

Amen! Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the sabbath, but were instructed regarding: Offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses? *Again, nowhere in scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.*

Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

God's word makes it clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17)

Moses gives the reason why the sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15)

DamianWarS · Feb 10, 2021

safswan said:
It is not about Jesus replacing the seventh day Sabbath but is a call God is constantly sending out to His people pleading with them to turn from sin.

This is an abstract definition of sabbath that the law doesn't spell out like that, why is your abstract version of the Sabbath better than mine? Do you have scripture that supports this sort of connection of sabbath that you make?

Christ himself is not rest but he gives us rest and that rest is a product of the sabbath, what sabbath gives us. Rest (sabbath) makes you rested (this is what Christ gives is). Christ's words are an allusion of Exodus 33:14. The word used there is nuach which is used liberally in reference to Sabbath (like Exodus 20:11).

Now when we use terms like "God" are we to say they are inclusive of Christ or exclusive? Scripture tells us that all things are created through Christ (Col 1:16) which means the day 7 rest was inclusive of Christ. Scripture also tells us all things are redeemed through Christ (Rom 8:20-22, 1 Tim 2:5, Heb 9:15) so without Christ, we don't have access to these things. Scripture also tells us Christ is Lord of the Sabbath (Mt 12:8, Mk 2:28, Lk 6:5) so he has authority over it. So what is wrong with my statement "He can give it because it's his to give"

DamianWarS · Feb 10, 2021

safswan said:
If you would only read,quote or at the very least cite the scriptures you base your opinions on then you would see they say nothing concerning the Sabbath being the sign of any covenant.But then you don't really want to know,do you?

Ex 31:13-17
“Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

sounds like circumcision... let's compare

Gen 17:9-14
Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

an allusion can be drawn between the two. perhaps less of an allusion and more of a shared foreshadow

LoveGodsWord · Feb 10, 2021

Goodness Dan your still posting the same cut and paste website materials from CC days that have been answered already multiple times through the scriptures already. Do you have anything new to add?

Danthemailman said:
Amen! Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the sabbath, but were instructed regarding: Offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses? *Again, nowhere in scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

Your argument is in silence. I can make the same one as you here. Where is the scripture that says God's people before Moses did not keep the Sabbath? Same argument your making here. You have no scripture therefore God's people kept the Sabbath. That aside I would like to show again for those that may be following that before the written Word of God there was the "spoken" Word of God and that God's people all through time knew about and followed Gods' laws before Moses and the written laws were given post Exodus 20.

Let's start with God's 4th commandment "seventh day Sabbath" shall we?

Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man in Mark 2:27 and he is the Lord and creator of it in Mark 2:28 and John 1:1-4; 14. The Sabbath was created for mankind in Genesis 2:1-3. When the Sabbath was made for man, there was no Moses, no law, no sin, no Israel and no Jew and no plan of salvation because there was no sin. There was only Adam and Eve the parents of all mankind. So Adam and Eve were the first to keep the Sabbath according to the scriptures.

Then we read of Abraham in Genesis 26:5 Because that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES, AND MY LAW.

The Hebrew word used here for law is תֹּורָה; tôwrâh application is to all of God's laws including the laws for remission of sins and animal sacrifices. This can be seen when Abraham offered burnt offerings as if they had no law there would be no need for atonement (forgiveness) in burnt offerings right? (see Genesis 22:2-7). So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the spoken Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the written Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed. In order to know what sin is we need God's law because through the law is the knowledge of sin according to Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

So we continue and see that God's people knew about God's laws before Mt Sinai by the spoken Word of God and we read all through this period of God's people having a knowledge of what sin is. God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. God said in Genesis 4:7 to Cain when he was angry because he did not worship God in his appointed way that by doing this it was sin. Jesus say the same in Matthew 15:3-9 that if we follow and teachings of men that break the commandments of God we are not following God. Mankind was destroyed by a flood because of sin (Genesis 6:5-7). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sin (Genesis 18:20).

When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? (Genesis 39:9). If there was no knowledge of sin (breaking God's law) there would be no punishment for it.

Then we come to Exodus 16 before God's 10 commandments were given and before the Mosiac written laws were given and we see God's people before Mt Sinai knowing already about God's Sabbath which is only further evidence that God's people before Mt Sinai knew God's laws through the "spoken" Word of God before the written Word of God was given.

God’s WORD is very clear that all of God’s Commandments were kept by God’s people before the written WORD through the Spoken WORD of GOD. So much for your argument in silence?

Hope this helps

LoveGodsWord · Feb 10, 2021

Lets look at your proof texts...

Danthemailman said:
Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

So haw does this scripture support your view? It does not. It was a different covenant with a lot more written laws. Genesis 26:5 and elsewhere from the scriptures in the previous post already shows that God's people had Gods' laws and knew what sin was before the written laws were given at Mt Sinai. How does this scripture support your view? - It doesn't

Danthemailman said:
Nehemiah 9:13 - Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

Ok yet we already saw God's people already knew about the Sabbath before Mt Sinai in Exodus 16 and that God made the Sabbath for mankind at creation (Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3). How does this scripture support your view? - It doesn't

Danthemailman said:
God's word makes it clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17)

According to God's Word in the new covenant all those who believe and follow God's Word today are Gods' ISRAEL. Nothing has changed here. We are all now one in Christ according to the scriptures and ISRAEL is no longer of the flesh but of the Spirit according to the promise (see Romans 9:6-9; Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL then we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believes are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. How do your comments here support your claims? - They don't

Danthemailman said:
Moses gives the reason why the sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Actually no. Jesus does in Mark 2:27 where the Sabbath was given to mankind in Genesis 2:1-3. There was no ISRAEL when God made the Sabbath for man as posted earlier. So what do you have Dan to support your tradition? - Nothing.

Hope this is helpful for those who are seeking to believe and follow God's Word :wave:

DamianWarS · Feb 11, 2021

safswan said:
WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

Scripture doesn't say this and neither do I. This is a strawman.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 11, 2021

DamianWarS said:
The intended meaning is that the sabbath is not so unreasonable we cannot physically keep it. So the Sabbath is tailored in a way that humans are able to observe it by their own strength. For example if the Sabbath said your beating heart or each breath you take is "work" then no one is able to keep the Sabbath and the Sabbath is unkeepable. You can argue that the logic of the Sabbath goes to this direction and where that may be true (and Christ fulfills it by resting in the grave over the Sabbath) it is not a requirement to keep the Sabbath according to the law.

Another caveat of this that we quickly dismiss is the Sabbath may be said it is made for man but it may not be inclusive of modern day man. For example when we plug into the power grid (such using using electricity) on the Sabbath we are taking part in a labour-driven system that is being sold to us for a profit both of which are prohibited on the Sabbath. It is possible to disconnect from these systems during the Sabbath but I have never met anyone willing to even admit that it violates it but an honest look would show it indeed violates the letter of the law.

Jesus tells us that doing good on the Sabbath keeps the law and doing evil does not keep the law. So this begs the question that our actions on the Sabbath should be prioritized by how good they are rather than how they avoid work as the latter may in fact be to the diservice of others. But this begs another question why not do good every day in every action? I this we find the secret sauce to the gospel.

Jesus also does tell us to come to him and he will give us rest. Jesus didn't speak English and the word is probably used when he said he will give rest is sabbath (because that's the meaning of the word).

When it boils down it would seem if we do good and seek Christ for his rest we keep the sabbath.

Hi DamianW Sorry for delay...

Very interesting comment you've made above about Jesus resting on the Sabbath (in the grave).
However, I'm not sure we can say that He was resting because we know that He preached to "the prisoners" at some time before the resurrection.

I also agree with you that we are to do good every day and not only on a holy day -- whatever it may be.

Jesus' saying that it is HE that will give us rest can be taken in two ways:
1. He could have meant that HE is now our rest and perhaps the Sabbath Law no longer applies...
He did, in fact, do some "work" on the Sabbath and criticized the Pharisees for not saving animals that were in danger on the Sabbath.
Luke 14:5
And He said to them, “Which one of you shall have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?”

2. Or He could have meant that when we have a problem we can go to Him....and that we are not to work for our salvation as the Jews under the law did...because He is the fulfillment of the Law.
Romans 11:6
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Thanks for your reply.

LoveGodsWord · Feb 11, 2021

GodsGrace101 said:
Hi DamianW Sorry for delay...

Very interesting comment you've made above about Jesus resting on the Sabbath (in the grave).
However, I'm not sure we can say that He was resting because we know that He preached to "the prisoners" at some time before the resurrection.

I also agree with you that we are to do good every day and not only on a holy day -- whatever it may be.

Jesus' saying that it is HE that will give us rest can be taken in two ways:
1. He could have meant that HE is now our rest and perhaps the Sabbath Law no longer applies...
He did, in fact, do some "work" on the Sabbath and criticized the Pharisees for not saving animals that were in danger on the Sabbath.
Luke 14:5
And He said to them, “Which one of you shall have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?”

2. Or He could have meant that when we have a problem we can go to Him....and that we are not to work for our salvation as the Jews under the law did...because He is the fulfillment of the Law.
Romans 11:6
6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Thanks for your reply.

Hello sis, welcome back.

There is no scripture in all of Gods' Word stating Jesus is a Sabbath. The only definition of Sabbath according to the bible is found in Exodus 20:10 which states that the Sabbath is the "seventh day" of the week. Saying that Jesus is a Sabbath is to deny the very God of creation and Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that according to the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of sin when broken and right doing (righteousness) when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. When compared to Genesis 2:1-3 which is the origin of the Sabbath, claiming that Jesus is the Sabbath is the same as saying Jesus created himself blessed himself and set himself apart as a holy day, of rest which does not really make much sense at all in scripture application. I believe that the view that Jesus is the Sabbath is an unbiblcal false teachings.

Matthew 11:28-30 is in regards to Jesus giving us rest, is in context to the gospel rest from sin all who receive from believing and following God's Word - Take my yoke upon you and learn of me... We do not receive the Gospel rest from sin by not believing and following what Gods Word says.

The scriptures however teach, in times of ignorance, God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of His truth, calls all men everywhere to believe and follow his Word *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. According to Jesus the hour is coming and now us that the true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God's Word to break God's 4th commandment. Jesus goes on to say those who follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. The question we should all be asking ourselves therefore is who do I believe and follow; God or man?

Jesus knew mankind would forget His 4th commandment Sabbath, which is why it starts off in Exodus 20:8 REMEMBER the Sabbath day to keep it holy...

God bless

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