Need help understanding

First off welcome to CF...

Thanks for sharing your story - really appreciated.

The New Covenant involves being indwelled by the presence of Jesus Who has the final word on what is righteousness in every circumstance as His living Word is alive within us.

It is tricky coming out of a tradition with so many man made rules or even worse when it is a spirit of legalism that has been driving the process.

The Truth sets us free - encounter with the transforming power of Jesus is what to seek. This will bring peace and rest from the constant questions.

One piece of advice is to send all the questions 'up stairs' and release them to Him - He will be sure to let you know what you need to, and this will release you from the stress of not knowing what you dont need to.

The first temptation was around the desire to know. Don't crave knowledge - read Ps. 131

Rest in Him, trust Him. Believe in and anticipate His loving correction with an open heart.

Jewelymagooly said:

Hi all,
Sorry this may be kinda lengthy but feel that explaining my background will help to narrow down some answers.
I used to belong to a church group, actually grew up in a church group called Holiness pentacostal. We believe in long skirts/dresses, long hair for women, short hair for men, no makeup or body altering items, no jewelry including wedding rings, KJV or it was not the Bible, no TVs (well except for the hidden "monitor" in the closet), basically a very modest lifestyle. There were many other rules an restrictions but I think you see my point. If a person didn't follow these rules or guidelines they were deemed sinners and dying on their way to hell. I spent 33 years of my life living this way. Then I ran across a chapter/verse that dealt on the subject of head coverings for women. We didn't wear them because it was deemed a "old testament" belief..... Even though our basis on wearing dresses was also an "old testament" belief. So more questions just kept coming up. Why is it wrong to go to the theater but not wrong to watch youtube on your phone or way movies on the "monitor" .... Or even have the internet or a computer?
And question after question just couldn't be answered. Eventually all my unanswered questions ended up with me leaving my old beliefs behind and experimenting with life. I had never tasted alcohol my whole life, or wore pants, or cut my hair, ..... So I did everything I could just to experience it, well except for drugs lol.
Now.... That I have sowed my wild oats ... It's time to be an adult again and I feel like I am stuck. My family considers me a sinner and on my way to hell, despite the fact that I do love God and call him my savior. Now, I am trying to find out where I fit in..... Cause I don't believe that a women has to wear a skirt to be a Christian.... But just to love and serve God and love others.
So when I have been trying to go to a new church, obviously they have way different point of views then what I grew up believing and now I feel lost in a sea of questions.
I used to be extremely active in my church, a Sunday school teacher, piano player, missions leader, and now I don't have that community any longer and feel that disconnect from the body of Christ. But when I sit in on a church service, I hear myself critiquing what the pastor is saying in my head, I know the Word quite well and have many portions of the Bible memorized, but all I can think about is how something's are deemed ok in one church, such as drinking alcohol, and in other churches it's an abomination. Where's the line? Where's the black and white? The right and wrong? And who is to judge what is right and wrong? I know in the end God is our only judge, but as a society we do have standards for what is right and wrong. But is that just based off of social norms for that society or group of people? Such as different cultures are fine with women to be topless, but here in the states you can go to jail. Years ago it was a normal thing to hang a person for stealing a horse, now we just slap a wrist and make then pay restitution.....
So which is right?
Like I said, I am so lost .... And I want to get back involved in a church but it's so hard when all I can do is question everything.
Help

Click to expand...

It doesn't help that you went to a legalistic church, first of all. Legalists draw their lines more restrictively than the Bible commands. Licentious churches will draw their lines more generously than the Bible commands. In your example of alcohol, it is legalistic to say that no good/true Christian should drink alcohol, ever. There are examples in both Testaments where alcohol consumption is spoken positively of, yet also instructions in both to avoid drinking to excess. The Biblical point of view on alcohol then, is to allow a little drinking, but not allow drunkenness - unless someone is an alcoholic/recovering alcoholic who can't even handle a little drinking. Hence, drunkenness would be on the "black" side since it's always bad, sobriety is on the "white" side since it's always good, and responsible consumption is also on the "white" side though it's closer to the border. If you need my Biblical references, I'll be happy to provide them.

Jewelymagooly said:

Hi all,
Sorry this may be kinda lengthy but feel that explaining my background will help to narrow down some answers.
I used to belong to a church group, actually grew up in a church group called Holiness pentacostal. We believe in long skirts/dresses, long hair for women, short hair for men, no makeup or body altering items, no jewelry including wedding rings, KJV or it was not the Bible, no TVs (well except for the hidden "monitor" in the closet), basically a very modest lifestyle. There were many other rules an restrictions but I think you see my point. If a person didn't follow these rules or guidelines they were deemed sinners and dying on their way to hell. I spent 33 years of my life living this way. Then I ran across a chapter/verse that dealt on the subject of head coverings for women. We didn't wear them because it was deemed a "old testament" belief..... Even though our basis on wearing dresses was also an "old testament" belief. So more questions just kept coming up. Why is it wrong to go to the theater but not wrong to watch youtube on your phone or way movies on the "monitor" .... Or even have the internet or a computer?
And question after question just couldn't be answered. Eventually all my unanswered questions ended up with me leaving my old beliefs behind and experimenting with life. I had never tasted alcohol my whole life, or wore pants, or cut my hair, ..... So I did everything I could just to experience it, well except for drugs lol.
Now.... That I have sowed my wild oats ... It's time to be an adult again and I feel like I am stuck. My family considers me a sinner and on my way to hell, despite the fact that I do love God and call him my savior. Now, I am trying to find out where I fit in..... Cause I don't believe that a women has to wear a skirt to be a Christian.... But just to love and serve God and love others.
So when I have been trying to go to a new church, obviously they have way different point of views then what I grew up believing and now I feel lost in a sea of questions.
I used to be extremely active in my church, a Sunday school teacher, piano player, missions leader, and now I don't have that community any longer and feel that disconnect from the body of Christ. But when I sit in on a church service, I hear myself critiquing what the pastor is saying in my head, I know the Word quite well and have many portions of the Bible memorized, but all I can think about is how something's are deemed ok in one church, such as drinking alcohol, and in other churches it's an abomination. Where's the line? Where's the black and white? The right and wrong? And who is to judge what is right and wrong? I know in the end God is our only judge, but as a society we do have standards for what is right and wrong. But is that just based off of social norms for that society or group of people? Such as different cultures are fine with women to be topless, but here in the states you can go to jail. Years ago it was a normal thing to hang a person for stealing a horse, now we just slap a wrist and make then pay restitution.....
So which is right?
Like I said, I am so lost .... And I want to get back involved in a church but it's so hard when all I can do is question everything.
Help

Click to expand...

Paul said...
“All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify.”‭‭ 1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:23

My opinion is to go with what you feel God is telling you. I never felt the need to wear skirts or have long hair and God has never talk to me about it. When I am sinning or creating an idol in my life, God is the first one to talk to me about it. Like one time I was doing my nails, after a few months I noticed they became an idol. I felt the Lord asked me to cut them. So I did. Another time I was practicing some sort of meditation, and the Lord appears in my dreams twice to show me I was wearing a beads bracelet. In the dream He simply used a Pastor to point out the bracelet. He wasn't mad, He simply wanted me to pay attention. When I searched the symbolism, it was a buddhist bracelet.

I learned to be aware of His voice and counsel for my life. Does it mean other women can't have pretty nails? I don’t know their heart, I knew mine. The more I grew, the more simple and modest I became, I just realized the importance is what’s in my heart.

I too had to leave a church and groups because they were operating on a religious spirit or a wrong spirt. The Lord is faithful to guide your path, keep asking Him for wisdom and for the right place for you to be. If you feel right with God, if what you do doesn't violate your conscience and His counsel, then live as He directs your life.

Jewelymagooly said:

Hi all,
Sorry this may be kinda lengthy but feel that explaining my background will help to narrow down some answers.
I used to belong to a church group, actually grew up in a church group called Holiness pentacostal. We believe in long skirts/dresses, long hair for women, short hair for men, no makeup or body altering items, no jewelry including wedding rings, KJV or it was not the Bible, no TVs (well except for the hidden "monitor" in the closet), basically a very modest lifestyle. There were many other rules an restrictions but I think you see my point. If a person didn't follow these rules or guidelines they were deemed sinners and dying on their way to hell. I spent 33 years of my life living this way. Then I ran across a chapter/verse that dealt on the subject of head coverings for women. We didn't wear them because it was deemed a "old testament" belief..... Even though our basis on wearing dresses was also an "old testament" belief. So more questions just kept coming up. Why is it wrong to go to the theater but not wrong to watch youtube on your phone or way movies on the "monitor" .... Or even have the internet or a computer?
And question after question just couldn't be answered. Eventually all my unanswered questions ended up with me leaving my old beliefs behind and experimenting with life. I had never tasted alcohol my whole life, or wore pants, or cut my hair, ..... So I did everything I could just to experience it, well except for drugs lol.
Now.... That I have sowed my wild oats ... It's time to be an adult again and I feel like I am stuck. My family considers me a sinner and on my way to hell, despite the fact that I do love God and call him my savior. Now, I am trying to find out where I fit in..... Cause I don't believe that a women has to wear a skirt to be a Christian.... But just to love and serve God and love others.
So when I have been trying to go to a new church, obviously they have way different point of views then what I grew up believing and now I feel lost in a sea of questions.
I used to be extremely active in my church, a Sunday school teacher, piano player, missions leader, and now I don't have that community any longer and feel that disconnect from the body of Christ. But when I sit in on a church service, I hear myself critiquing what the pastor is saying in my head, I know the Word quite well and have many portions of the Bible memorized, but all I can think about is how something's are deemed ok in one church, such as drinking alcohol, and in other churches it's an abomination. Where's the line? Where's the black and white? The right and wrong? And who is to judge what is right and wrong? I know in the end God is our only judge, but as a society we do have standards for what is right and wrong. But is that just based off of social norms for that society or group of people? Such as different cultures are fine with women to be topless, but here in the states you can go to jail. Years ago it was a normal thing to hang a person for stealing a horse, now we just slap a wrist and make then pay restitution.....
So which is right?
Like I said, I am so lost .... And I want to get back involved in a church but it's so hard when all I can do is question everything.
Help

Click to expand...

You came to the right place, because the liturgical churches that Traditional Theology exists to represent tend to be extremely unobtrusive. Pick one out (Anglican, Assyrian Church of the East, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Moravian, Oriental Orthodox, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Traditional Congregationalist, Traditional United Methodist) and follow the famous advice from the Gospel of John, “Come and See.”

Jewelymagooly said:

I used to be extremely active in my church, a Sunday school teacher, piano player, missions leader, and now I don't have that community any longer and feel that disconnect from the body of Christ. But when I sit in on a church service, I hear myself critiquing what the pastor is saying in my head, I know the Word quite well and have many portions of the Bible memorized, but all I can think about is how something's are deemed ok in one church, such as drinking alcohol, and in other churches it's an abomination. Where's the line? Where's the black and white? The right and wrong? And who is to judge what is right and wrong? I know in the end God is our only judge, but as a society we do have standards for what is right and wrong. But is that just based off of social norms for that society or group of people? Such as different cultures are fine with women to be topless, but here in the states you can go to jail. Years ago it was a normal thing to hang a person for stealing a horse, now we just slap a wrist and make then pay restitution..... So which is right? Like I said, I am so lost ....

Click to expand...

It's great that you posted this in Traditional Theology. It's also great that you love God and others, that you know the Scripture quite well, that you are able to critique the pastor in your head, and that you desire to get more involved in church activities.

One important question is what type of church is more suitable for you? I assume you're used to an Evangelical type of church service and that you believe in Pentecostal theology. When you find a church with reasonable theology and friendly people you will probably get more involved in their activities. Your other questions seem big only bec you're used to authoritarian rules that tend to make things appear black or white. The real world has all shades of color.

A women does not have to wear a skirt to be a Christian. Drinking alcohol can be OK and can be an abomination depending on the situation. It is generally OK but can be an abomination if one is struggling with alcohol addiction or drinks in the presence of someone who is struggling with alcohol addiction, if we get drunk, if alcohol makes us vulnerable to inappropriate behavior, etc. Dressing modestly is a great idea. Following secular law where it does not contradict Scripture is also a good idea.

And before everything else, Scripture teaches one thing: love / compassion.

1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels
but have not compassion,
I have become a noisy gong
or a clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy
and know all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains
but have not compassion,
I am nothing.

3 If I give away all that I own
and if I hand over my body so I might boast
but have not compassion,
I gain nothing.

Sorry, I didn't quote the KJV. It uses the word "charity."

As confusing and maybe distressing as your current situation is, I'm glad you saw through the legalism and inconsistency of your previous interpretation of what following Christ is about. Our covenant is of spirit, not letter, and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.

1Cor 8 and Romans 14 and 15 deal with the issue of personal freedom v. stumbling others. According to Paul's analogy, it is the person who will eat only vegetables who has the weaker faith. But to those stronger in faith, who know the truth about the liberty we have in Christ, he says we should be mindful of those with weaker faith and try to protect them.

But when some adamantly cling to their vegetables-only position, they are not weak in their own misguided faith, they are strong in it. At that point I do not let their strictures impede on my liberty in Christ.

If you can't see eye to eye on important lifestyle matters, it's time to look for a different ekklesia. None are going to be perfect, but if they are seeking the truth of the Word, and if they are filled with Holy Spirit, and if they exhibit the love of Christ, and if you don't get hung up on minor things, you should be able to graft in and grow and contribute.

It may or may not be easy to find such a body of believers. These are difficult times. I pray you have the comfort and assurance of Holy Spirit as you move forward in your search.

This sort of approach, can bring a lot of confusion and cause us to get all religious, if we're not careful. I'd say, let's seek God with all our hearts 1st and if there is anything wrong, with the way we dress and groom ourselves, the holy spirit should point it out as we go along.

We cannot try to achieve the things of the spirit in the flesh. You will find this type of approach especially in celestial churches, this is why some even go as far as, preferring to use things which they can feel with their physical hands when ever they are praying for deliverance e.g so called holy oils, candles including all kinds of colourful liquids and whatnot. Most of them, do not believe that a simple prayer of faith alone, is enough to bring them positive results.

Being new to this forum I hesitate to get too deeply into what I have learned and feel so strongly about too soon. It can either be considered helpful (to those seeking truth) or divisive (to those who are happy with the way things are). This has nothing to do with politics... but that other no-no we don't talk about in public (religion).

Human beings love religion and religious practices. It comes from unanswered questions of the soul, superstition, a sense of guilt, uncertainty... and even hope (without knowing hope in what). I've heard it called a "Christ-shaped hole in the soul" among other things. It comes from humanity as a whole being torn apart from the communion we had (in Adam and Eve) in the beginning (Genesis 3).

They quickly threw together fig leaves (which may not have been so abrasive in those days as the thorns and thistles came later) to try to cover their nakedness (which personified in their minds what happened because they sinned). It was much much deeper than nakedness or being made aware of it.

People are ever trying to grasp after fig leaves to fill that void and guilt in their spirit with organized religion, vice, devotion to some cause (even causes the world deems worthy... professions, even ministry). And the more organized the better... throw in pomp and circumstance and you have the recipe to lead millions / billions.

Only thing is...

Proverbs 14:12 / Proverbs 16:25 (AV)
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

None of the above deals with the one thing humanity must deal with above all else:

John 3:18 (AV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Any old Jesus will not save (2 Corinthians 11:3-4 / Galatians 1:8-9). We must believe in the genuine Son of God.

Matthew 24:24 (AV)
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Many will rise on the day of judgment to hear:

Matthew 7:21–23 (AV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Because they either believed a false Christ or a false prophet...

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Most Christian churches teach Grace as faith alone... but then come the little additions like "forgiving others or your Heavenly Father will not forgive you..." or water baptism or praying a sinner's prayer or walking the aisle during church service...

The Bible does [seem to] support some of these when you incorrectly divide the word of truth.

2 Timothy 2:15 (AV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

But how many actually do this when all our Bibles have the dividing line between New and Old Testaments between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1?

Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Jesus did not give up the Ghost on the cross until Matthew 27:50, Mark 15:37, Luke 23:46, John 19:30.
All before those verses was Old Testament under the Mosaic Law.

When you rightly divide the Word of Truth as it was intended to be it makes much more sense. It takes away the confusion of Grace being by faith alone. It removes tons of burden from the believer.

Matthew 11:28–30 (AV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

The New Covenant espouses things the organized church doesn't teach with any regularity.

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The reference "kings and priests" would best understood as "princes and priests" or "kingdom of priests" because this is a Greek expression of a Hebrew thought which was originally:

Exodus 19:6 (AV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

And "Israel" means "prince of God" yish sarar elohiym...

This priesthood of the entire nation was never realized because of the events of Exodus 32 where the people not only made the calf idol and worshipped it, not only had orgies, but were about to turn tail and return to Egypt and undo everything the LORD had done up to that point (since the foundation of the world). This was serious. And God dealt with it by slaying thousands, calling all for YHVH to stand by Moses. Only his tribe (the Levites) came. This is why the Levites became the priestly tribe and the rest were laity (so to speak).

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Original Poster wants to return to church services. If that's all that you want, just about any organized church will do. The dressing up, the smell of mingling perfumes and after shaves, the hand shaking, hymns... etc...

Or, do you want to go into God's service as a priest before in in Christ?

If so, where do you begin? At the beginning:

In fact the Bible tells us to know this FIRST:

2 Peter 1:20–21 (AV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

The entire Bible came in the manner described in verse 20. The entire Bible is prophetic (which does not mean only predictive prophecy but to profess... ). So:

• no portion of scripture is of any interpretation other than that of the Holy Spirit who wrote the scriptures
• not by the will of man is specifically mentioned
• man's will by nature is satanic (Matthew 16:23 / John 8:44)

The next time you are asked why you did something wrong and are dumbfounded "I don't know..." remember Matthew 16:23 and John 8:44...

1 John 4:1 (AV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Test the spirits... even what you think or believe to be the Holy Spirit to see it it actually is Him. ← this is about our inability to discern truth from untruth and not about anything God the Spirit is lacking.

How? Again study the scriptures daily (with a vengeance) get into the Word with the Holy Spirit's tutelage. Checking all things out (1 Thessalonians 5:21) with scripture (Acts 17:11).

2 Timothy 3:16–17 (AV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Psalm 138:2 (AV)
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Proverbs 25:2 (AV)
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. *

* this is in anticipation of interference from man (the devil) or hostile jamming in transmission / teaching

Deuteronomy 29:29 (AV)
29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Isaiah 28:9–13 (AV)
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

We are not the scholars / experts / we will never "have arrived" only God is all these things. We are only his messengers / his tools...

Then set out to find your spiritual gifts and then you will know what your ministry as a priest before God is.

Galatians 3:24–28 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Hope this helps.