Parents in Utah school opt their children out of Black History Month

pitabread said:

[citation needed]

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Best I can do.

"An agenda is a list of matters to be addressed -- a checklist of tasks to be accomplished -- and it often implies ulterior motives. We just wanted to do what was best for the people, but the new candidate for mayor had his own agenda. A social agenda is a list of things you want to do for society -- for whatever reason."

OldWiseGuy said:

Best I can do.

"An agenda is a list of matters to be addressed -- a checklist of tasks to be accomplished -- and it often implies ulterior motives. We just wanted to do what was best for the people, but the new candidate for mayor had his own agenda. A social agenda is a list of things you want to do for society -- for whatever reason."

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A dictionary definition of what the word 'agenda' means is not a citation to back up your claim about the supposed social agendas of universities.

OldWiseGuy said:

I've heard that black students don't have much interest in white history, except as it relates to slavery.

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To be fair, if "black" history was given its due weight and importance into over all history, there would be no need for black history month.

Isn't the civil rights movement for instance a point where Americas founding principles were not just hypocrisy and words, but a point in which the rights of man actually started to mean something. Maybe Martin Luther King should be seen as a "Neo-Founding Father" and put on the same level as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin.

All Englands Skies said:

To be fair, if "black" history was given its due weight and importance into over all history, there would be no need for black history month.

Isn't the civil rights movement for instance a point where Americas founding principles were not just hypocrisy and words, but a point in which the rights of man actually started to mean something. Maybe Martin Luther King should be seen as a "Neo-Founding Father" and put on the same level as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin.

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MLK Jr. was not appreciated by all black people, as their history since reveals. If our founding fathers were held in the same esteem our attempts at nationhood would be a mere footnote in British history.

OldWiseGuy said:

MLK Jr. was not appreciated by all black people, as their history since reveals. If our founding fathers were held in the same esteem our attempts at nationhood would be a mere footnote in British history.

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What is it supposed to prove that MLK wasn't appreciated by all black people?

No less a founding father than John Adams once called Alexander Hamilton the "bastard brat of a Scottish peddler". That doesn't seem to make a difference when it comes to how we treat either of these men in U.S. history. Hamilton's still on the $10 bill, after all.

OldWiseGuy said:

Perhaps if they focused on opportunities.

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People like you are full of crap. Teaching Black history and other history has nothing to do with teaching kids other things. You guys are nothing but cowards. And should be ashamed of your selves.

OldWiseGuy said:

Sounds like an annual guilt trip for whites.

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I don't feel particularly guilty. Not sure what others have done or believe to make them feel that way.

OldWiseGuy said:

American culture, materially speaking, is good planning, hard work, and sacrifice (delayed gratification). Many blacks get this, but many don't. Many blacks spend their money on the appearance of wealth rather than accruing actual generational wealth. You could say that this is a cultural feature of the black underclass.

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One could say this, but to do so one would have to ignore the vast number of non-black Americans similarly deep in debt. Which would raise the question of why one would feel motivated to do so.

SummerMadness said:

Parents wanted to opt their children out of Black History Month. A Utah school 'reluctantly' let them.

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WPs paywall is driving me UP a wall....

98cwitr said:

WPs paywall is driving me UP a wall....

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Copy the link. Paste it in another tab. hover your mouse above the "refresh/stop" icon and hit enter. Then, before the page loads press the stop icon. It's a timing hit and miss. If you hit it too soon, the page doesn't load. If you do it just right, the page will load but the code to bring up the popup will not have completed, so you can read it with ease. This works on a LOT of paywalls

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

People like you are full of crap. Teaching Black history and other history has nothing to do with teaching kids other things. You guys are nothing but cowards. And should be ashamed of your selves.

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People like me are trying to help, by showing others a better way.

If black history is mostly rehearsing past grievances, which can have the effect of promoting the idea of reparations, entitlement, or retribution, it can seriously hinder their ability to take advantage of the opportunities they've gained. They've already made serious economic mistakes as a community that has virtually assured that they will remain behind in wealth building.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

People like you are full of crap. Teaching Black history and other history has nothing to do with teaching kids other things. You guys are nothing but cowards. And should be ashamed of your selves.

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This is the challenge that seems to be dividing the country.
1. The use of the phrase "people like you" suggests you see all people as part of a group, rather than as individual beings with their own personality, beliefs, desires, etc. I can't speak for other "people like me", but I see people as individuals.
2. Your use of the phrase "Teaching black History" also speaks to that. I was in public school in the 60's and 70's. I learned about black and white, and even Indian (what we now call "native american") leaders in American history. But we didn't see it as "black vs white" history. It was simply history. We didn't see people as members of groups. We were taught they were individuals that fought political and physical fights for things that mattered to them.

The beginning of resolving this whole thing is to eliminate thinking of history as "black vs white". It's all history. But if you really want a "black" history month, it is reasonable to ask for "white" history month, "Asian" history month, etc.

But it's best to see every person as an individual, their racial composition being just a small part of what makes them the person they are. An example: People think that prisons are full of black men compared to the low numbers of white men. Then they want to blame racism for it. But one could also say that prisons are full of men with few women, yet they don't blame sexism for it. Odd.

The truth is that prisons are full of FATHERLESS men and women, and that is not necessarily a race issue, though the federal government's welfare system caused out of wedlock births in the black community to explode from somewhere around 18% to somewhere around 75%. That is the problem and the cause in one sentence.

It's not about "people like you" or "people like me". And it is the cowards that will not stand up to this "black history month" coddling nonsense.

Careful DD. Citing "fatherlessness" might bring the accusation of misogyny.

Direct Driver said:

This is the challenge that seems to be dividing the country.
1. The use of the phrase "people like you" suggests you see all people as part of a group, rather than as individual beings with their own personality, beliefs, desires, etc. I can't speak for other "people like me", but I see people as individuals.
2. Your use of the phrase "Teaching black History" also speaks to that. I was in public school in the 60's and 70's. I learned about black and white, and even Indian (what we now call "native american") leaders in American history. But we didn't see it as "black vs white" history. It was simply history. We didn't see people as members of groups. We were taught they were individuals that fought political and physical fights for things that mattered to them.

The beginning of resolving this whole thing is to eliminate thinking of history as "black vs white". It's all history. But if you really want a "black" history month, it is reasonable to ask for "white" history month, "Asian" history month, etc.

But it's best to see every person as an individual, their racial composition being just a small part of what makes them the person they are. An example: People think that prisons are full of black men compared to the low numbers of white men. Then they want to blame racism for it. But one could also say that prisons are full of men with few women, yet they don't blame sexism for it. Odd.

The truth is that prisons are full of FATHERLESS men and women, and that is not necessarily a race issue, though the federal government's welfare system caused out of wedlock births in the black community to explode from somewhere around 18% to somewhere around 75%. That is the problem and the cause in one sentence.

It's not about "people like you" or "people like me". And it is the cowards that will not stand up to this "black history month" coddling nonsense.

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You're right. I am white and was raised in a fatherless home. I side with the data and the narrative that prove, without doubt, that children need two parents to truly have the opportunity to flourish and have the best chance at being mentally healthy. The destruction of the nuclear family is possibly the most singular point of contention between society and crime.

OldWiseGuy said:

Careful DD. Citing "fatherlessness" might bring the accusation of misogyny.

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Personally, I think one of the biggest problems our culture has is misandry. But that is a subject for another thread.

98cwitr said:

You're right. I am white and was raised in a fatherless home. I side with the data and the narrative that prove, without doubt, that children need two parents to truly have the opportunity to flourish and have the best chance at being mentally healthy. The destruction of the nuclear family is possibly the most singular point of contention between society and crime.

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I knew several single moms who had young sons (dated a few of them back in the day). Almost all of those boys had emotional/attitude problems, including my own divorced sister's boys. They were virtually uncontrollable at times. I also witnessed extreme anger by boys who blamed their mothers for a divorce and the poor treatment of their fathers. My own son suffered as well when my wife left me as she battered his tender emotions by casting me as the villain. To this day we aren't as close as my daughter and I are. She was also negatively affected but not as much as my son was.

Direct Driver said:

Personally, I think one of the biggest problems our culture has is misandry. But that is a subject for another thread.

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I agree. Reminds me of one of the curses on ancient Israel; "Children are your oppressors, and women rule over you." Sounds kinda familiar.

OldWiseGuy said:

I knew several single moms who had young sons (dated a few of them back in the day). Almost all of those boys had emotional/attitude problems, including my own divorced sister's boys. They were virtually uncontrollable at times. I also witnessed extreme anger by boys who blamed their mothers for a divorce and the poor treatment of their fathers. My own son suffered as well when my wife left me as she battered his tender emotions by casting me as the villain. To this day we aren't as close as my daughter and I are. She was also negatively affected but not as much as my son was.

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My story is quite similar, but thankfully the Lord led me down a narrow road back to my Dad. I haven't spoken to my mother in over a decade.

OldWiseGuy said:

I knew several single moms who had young sons (dated a few of them back in the day). Almost all of those boys had emotional/attitude problems, including my own divorced sister's boys. They were virtually uncontrollable at times. I also witnessed extreme anger by boys who blamed their mothers for a divorce and the poor treatment of their fathers. My own son suffered as well when my wife left me as she battered his tender emotions by casting me as the villain. To this day we aren't as close as my daughter and I are. She was also negatively affected but not as much as my son was.

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I read the article below just a few months after my own divorce back in the late 20th century. It almost ecactly describes my divorce to a T. It messed up all three of my daughters but they have returned mostly to normalcy. We all have our demons to deal with. Even my ex has admitted to my daughters that she blew it. But I've been married now 23 years to the woman of my dreams. For me it was VERY good. A true "Phoenix from the ashes" story. And it's given me opportunity to discuss deeper issues with my daughters, all in their 30's now.

Universal Divorce: A Male's Perspective On A Bad Idea

Direct Driver said:

I read the article below just a few months after my own divorce back in the late 20th century. It almost ecactly describes my divorce to a T. It messed up all three of my daughters but they have returned mostly to normalcy. We all have our demons to deal with. Even my ex has admitted to my daughters that she blew it. But I've been married now 23 years to the woman of my dreams. For me it was VERY good. A true "Phoenix from the ashes" story. And it's given me opportunity to discuss deeper issues with my daughters, all in their 30's now.

Universal Divorce: A Male's Perspective On A Bad Idea

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Having seen kids that have come out just as bad from bad marriages, I disagree. At the very least, divorce allows people to leave bad marriages, or worse abusive ones. Keeping people in marriages is worse than letting them leave, in my opinion.