The Love Of Money Is Idol Worshipping

Ashley Amos

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You should really go back and read the pericope of Christ's temptation.

-CryptoLutheran
I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying Jesus cannot tempt you with evil. The Bible states God cannot be tempted nor can he tempt with evil it is impossible maybe you should go back and read the Scriptures yourself. UFC did hear that giving up all and relying on God to provide is tempting God but this is exactly what Jesus said to do that if we put the kingdom of heaven first and its righteousness that God shall give all our needs God will provide.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying Jesus cannot tempt you with evil.

I'm fully aware of that. I was hoping you'd realize that when Jesus quoted the Scripture about not putting God to the test that you'd realize that He said this to the devil who just got done also quoting Scripture.

The devil quoted Psalm 91:11-12 and then told Jesus to jump from a high place.
Jesus' response was to say not to put God to the test.

Just because you quote the Bible doesn't mean you are using it rightly.
Just because you quote the Bible doesn't mean that you are advocating for something wise.

The Bible states God cannot be tempted nor can he tempt with evil it is impossible maybe you should go back and read the Scriptures yourself. UFC did hear that giving up all and relying on God to provide is tempting God but this is exactly what Jesus said to do that if we put the kingdom of heaven first and its righteousness that God shall give all our needs God will provide.

Jesus called His disciples to renounce their way of life and to take up His way, to follow Him. And yet, Jesus still tells them to take up a purse, and knapsack, and to purchase a sword by selling their cloaks--though He clearly is speaking less of actual swords as when they show Him two swords He tells them, in essence, to "knock it off". But Jesus' point is clear: They would suffer and need to be safe.

If Christ's command was for all Christians to live voluntarily as destitute, to not work or do things to support one another, the community, and their families then the Apostles certainly didn't get the memo. As St. Lydia was a seller of purple, St. Paul had a side job as a tent-maker, members of the community who had were instructed to help care for the poor in their midst. St. Paul had collections taken from the Church in Antioch to be delivered to Jerusalem during the famine.

It would be one thing if you were talking about the problems of excessive wealth, of wealth inequality, of the sufferings of the poor, the hungry, and the needy--and of the Church's responsibility toward the poor and the needy. And of the Christian responsibility toward these things.

But that isn't what you've chosen to do. Rather you have chosen to isolate certain passages in order to condemn. To condemn what? Excesses in wealth? Injustice due to the inequality of wealth? No, rather condemn those who are simply seeking to live out their faith in their God-given vocations in the world.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ashley Amos

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I'm fully aware of that. I was hoping you'd realize that when Jesus quoted the Scripture about not putting God to the test that you'd realize that He said this to the devil who just got done also quoting Scripture.

The devil quoted Psalm 91:11-12 and then told Jesus to jump from a high place.
Jesus' response was to say not to put God to the test.

Just because you quote the Bible doesn't mean you are using it rightly.
Just because you quote the Bible doesn't mean that you are advocating for something wise.



Jesus called His disciples to renounce their way of life and to take up His way, to follow Him. And yet, Jesus still tells them to take up a purse, and knapsack, and to purchase a sword by selling their cloaks--though He clearly is speaking less of actual swords as when they show Him two swords He tells them, in essence, to "knock it off". But Jesus' point is clear: They would suffer and need to be safe.

If Christ's command was for all Christians to live voluntarily as destitute, to not work or do things to support one another, the community, and their families then the Apostles certainly didn't get the memo.

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk



Matthew 19:27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"

Matthew 4:20-22
And they straightway left their nets, and followed him…

Matthew 9:9
And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

As we can see in many scriptures the disciples give up everything to follow Jesus.

What you’re stating is not as per the Scriptures the disciples did give up all it is you who are contrary.



As St. Lydia was a seller of purple, St.

No I wouldn’t be following Lydia instead of Jesus and the disciples. It states Lydia was selling purple before she was baptized. We all do wrong things before we’re baptized so I wouldn’t be following Lydia’s example before she was even baptized. We also don’t hear of Lydia’s husband maybe she was divorced should we all do that too because Lydia did it if Lydia jumped off the cliff should we jump off too. Where does God say to follow Lydia’s example and not Jesus I would be careful with this type of thoughts.



Paul had a side job as a tent-maker, members of the community who had were instructed to help care for the poor in their midst. St. Paul had collections taken from the Church in Antioch to be delivered to Jerusalem during the famine.


Paul gave up all he said he counted everything as garbage to follow Jesus. And Paul was a tent maker in the beginning but then went full-time into ministry and was supported by the church of Macedonia and other avenues of God’s provision.



It would be one thing if you were talking about the problems of excessive wealth, of wealth inequality, of the sufferings of the poor, the hungry, and the needy--and of the Church's responsibility toward the poor and the needy. And of the Christian responsibility toward these things.


I am not talking about the churches responsibility I’m talking about your responsibility and my responsibility as an individual stop trying to pass it off as the churches responsibility. The church is us as an individual.



But that isn't what you've chosen to do. Rather you have chosen to isolate certain passages in order to condemn. To condemn what? Excesses in wealth? Injustice due to the inequality of wealth? No, rather condemn those who are simply seeking to live out their faith in their God-given vocations in the world.

Give a ball is exactly what the disciples did and the first century church it is you who are contrary to the Scriptures

Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

Acts 4:
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

36 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”), 37 sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet.


You are completely wrong your love for money is blinding you and you will say anything to keep it Even twist and manipulate the scriptures Jesus said the Son of Man has no place to lay his head and John says those who claim to be in Jesus must live as he did. John the Baptist lived out in the wilderness and eat locust and honey. It seems your interpretation is contrary to the disciples and Jesus.
 
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The happy Objectivist

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The work of God is to believe in his son Jesus and to preach the gospel. If you put the kingdom of heaven first as first priority then God will add everything you need to you For you and your family if he can provide for 1 million people in the desert/wilderness then I think you can provide for you and your family.
I don't believe any of that Ashley. I don't believe a god exists and I don't believe it kept 1 million people alive in the wilderness. It is my responsibility to take care of my needs and it seems to me waiting for someone else to do it is a long wait for a boat that will never come.
 
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Estrid

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Then again, since this is in the Ethics and Morality section, it will be interesting to see how any skeptics or other non-Christians decide to respond to the premise. ;)

Ok, I will bite. First to say, that I inherited
well. I have no need to work. I dont care for
the life of a tai tai, though, so, I do work.

It is fun, an intellectual challenge, and,
oh, its like chess. I get pretty intense! When it
works out, the money is sort ofa marker, I don't
rush out to buy a Birkin or a Porsche.
I'm not very materialistic anyway, so say
I dress down etc, as anyone chooses. I am
indifferent to that.

To specific points
I don't "love" money. The very idea makes no sense to me.
I have a fair measure of safety and security because I can buy it.
A poor person gets no evident safety from belief in God, do they?
But the poor live at greater physical risk.

Love, happiness. Nope, can't buy love, cannot buy
happiness though money can certainly can facilitate
some happinrss! As well as security nd happiness for others.

Say I invest in a housing development. Jobs,
better places to live..those mean something.
If I am poor, I am powerless.
Not long ago I sent our maid back to
Philippines with cash I gave her, gave her,
to start a business there. Makes me feel good,
and an enormous benefit to her family!

Two masters. Money is far from my master. It's my tool.
I recognize no "master". I'm no slave.

Bible principles- sure, some of them. None that
involve God, whose existence i don't accept .
But much of the folk wisdom expressed-don't
steal, don't kill, honour parents, to name three,
those are things we are taught not as religious
mandates but as integral to life.

They are very 'worldly" principles, essential
to a smoothly functioning just and equitable society.
There is certainly no either/ or, and no biblical
monopoly on them.Q

Finally, on temporary things.
What I do has great potential for a ripple effect
on far more people than myself, and down
through generations- not temporary at all!

For me to just focus on myself and some possible
future life seems to me wasteful, self centered,
self indulgent.
 
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Ashley Amos

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I don't believe any of that Ashley. I don't believe a god exists and I don't believe it kept 1 million people alive in the wilderness. It is my responsibility to take care of my needs and it seems to me waiting for someone else to do it is a long wait for a boat that will never come.

Psalm 14:1 Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!

Psalm 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and vile in their ways; there is no one who does good.
 
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Estrid

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Psalm 14:1 Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!

Psalm 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and vile in their ways; there is no one who does good.

Sooo. Does it mean I am vile and nothing I could do is good?

Not that I said there is no God.
I just don't believe it.

Disciplined thinking does not involve
stating something unknown as fact.
 
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Ashley Amos

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Sooo. Does it mean I am vile and nothing I could do is good?

Not that I said there is no God.
I just don't believe it.


So you believe there’s a God you just don’t believe in his word?

Disciplined thinking does not involve
stating something unknown as fact.

That is the very definition of faith is believing that which you cannot see. God does the impossible this is not logical.
 
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Estrid

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That is the very definition of faith is believing that which you cannot see. God does the impossible this is not logical.

Sorry, I don't see any connection to what I said.

And I certainly said nothing to the effect that
I believe in God but not his word.
 
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The happy Objectivist

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Psalm 14:1 Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!

Psalm 53:1
The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and vile in their ways; there is no one who does good.
Thank you for calling me a fool, and corrupt and vile and evil. Please do not quote the Bible to me. It is useless. I already know that the Bible is not a source of truth. You are not ready for a discussion with me at my level of understanding.
 
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Ashley Amos

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Sorry, I don't see any connection to what I said.

And I certainly said nothing to the effect that
I believe in God but not his word.
Well if you’re going to continue to speak so vague and not clarify your position I cannot read your mind and debate with myself Can I.
 
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SkyWriting

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Our concern should not be on our physical lives here in the world which is short and will pass away. Why are we investing in something so temporary?

Because:

Proverbs 13:11
Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

Proverbs 22:7
The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

Ecclesiastes 5:10
He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

Luke 12:15
And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

Proverbs 13:22
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous.

Deuteronomy 8:18
You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

Luke 14:28-30
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.

Malachi 3:10
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

Romans 13:8
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Psalm 37:21
The wicked borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives;

Exodus 22:25
“If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him.

Proverbs 21:20
Precious treasure and oil are in a wise man's dwelling, but a foolish man devours it.

Luke 16:11
If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches?

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

Acts 20:35
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Proverbs 3:9
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce;

Luke 14:28
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

Matthew 5:42
Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Proverbs 15:27
Whoever is greedy for unjust gain troubles his own household, but he who hates bribes will live.

Ecclesiastes 7:12
For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

Proverbs 27:23
Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds,

Proverbs 10:4
A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

Proverbs 22:26-27
Be not one of those who give pledges, who put up security for debts. If you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from under you?

Matthew 25:14-30
“For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. ...

Leviticus 19:13
“You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Proverbs 22:16
Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

Proverbs 22:9
Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

Proverbs 28:8
Whoever multiplies his wealth by interest and profit gathers it for him who is generous to the poor.
 
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Ashley Amos

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Thank you for calling me a fool, and corrupt and vile and evil. Please do not quote the Bible to me. It is useless. I already know that the Bible is not a source of truth. You are not ready for a discussion with me at my level of understanding.
Lol If you say so. You’re only fooling yourself.
 
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Robban

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I don't believe any of that Ashley. I don't believe a god exists and I don't believe it kept 1 million people alive in the wilderness. It is my responsibility to take care of my needs and it seems to me waiting for someone else to do it is a long wait for a boat that will never come.

Nothing wrong with that, if you want a drink of water,

you wom't get any just by staring at the tap,
you have to turn on the tap.

You do not believe in a god, well,
everyonr believes in something and that something becomes their god.

Though many may not think of it, nevertheless, it is so.

That which one gives first place in their life becomes their god.

That is why there are thousands of gods in this world.

Difference between a god and an idol can be clearly seen in Psalms 135:15-18.

So of course you have a god, even if it is your life that has first place.
 
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Ashley Amos

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Because:

Proverbs 13:11
Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

Proverbs 22:7
The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.

Ecclesiastes 5:10
He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

Luke 12:15
And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

Proverbs 13:22
A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous.

Deuteronomy 8:18
You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day.

Luke 14:28-30
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.

Malachi 3:10
Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need.

Romans 13:8
Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Psalm 37:21
The wicked borrows but does not pay back, but the righteous is generous and gives;

Exodus 22:25
“If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him.

Proverbs 21:20
Precious treasure and oil are in a wise man's dwelling, but a foolish man devours it.

Luke 16:11
If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches?

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

Acts 20:35
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Proverbs 3:9
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce;

Luke 14:28
For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it?

Matthew 5:42
Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Matthew 6:33
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Proverbs 15:27
Whoever is greedy for unjust gain troubles his own household, but he who hates bribes will live.

Ecclesiastes 7:12
For the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money, and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him who has it.

Proverbs 27:23
Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds,

Proverbs 10:4
A slack hand causes poverty, but the hand of the diligent makes rich.

Proverbs 22:26-27
Be not one of those who give pledges, who put up security for debts. If you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from under you?

Matthew 25:14-30
“For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. ...

Leviticus 19:13
“You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Proverbs 22:16
Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth, or gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

Proverbs 22:9
Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

Proverbs 28:8
Whoever multiplies his wealth by interest and profit gathers it for him who is generous to the poor.


I don’t know what you mean by Copying and pasting these Scriptures as half of them are supporting what I’m saying and the other half which are mainly from Proverbs or not Jesus sayings. You do know that the old testament is the Jewish beliefs and many of their beliefs were wrong due to there misinterpretation of Gods word. Since if there was nothing to straighten out the Messiah would not have to have been sent.

You’re gonna have to do more than just copying and pasting scriptures anyone can do that.
 
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The happy Objectivist

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Lol If you say so. You’re only fooling yourself.
Again with the insults. Don't just make assertions, back them up but make sure you don't steal concepts in doing so, I will catch each and every one.
 
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The happy Objectivist

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Nothing wrong with that, if you want a drink of water,

you wom't get any just by staring at the tap,
you have to turn on the tap.

You do not believe in a god, well,
everyonr believes in something and that something becomes their god.

Though many may not think of it, nevertheless, it is so.

That which one gives first place in their life becomes their god.

That is why there are thousands of gods in this world.

Difference between a god and an idol can be clearly seen in Psalms 135:15-18.

So of course you have a god, even if it is your life that has first place.
Simply calling something a god does not make it so. My life is not a god to me as it is real and not imaginary. My life is a value. It's the ultimate value since it is the source and cause of values.
 
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Ashley Amos

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Again with the insults. Don't just make assertions, back them up but make sure you don't steal concepts in doing so, I will catch each and every one.


I think you think too much of yourself. We’re going in a circle here I am telling you that you have not outlined your position and your telling me that I have made assertions. I really don’t know what you’re getting at and what your argument is in order to be able to address it. So either you don’t know yourself what you’re arguing about or you’re unable to clarify it and articulate it.
 
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Robban

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Simply calling something a god does not make it so. My life is not a god to me as it is real and not imaginary. My life is a value. It's the ultimate value since it is the source and cause of values.

Well, one usually worships a god,

What then is worship?

Your life has value but you are not the source of it.

If you allowed yourself a little time to study "repentence"

you would find that repentence means "Return".

Return to the source of all life.

Also return the soul to the state of purity it was in on coming into this world.

So, not the negative concept one usually connects with it.

But a gift.

I do not ever try to convince anyone in these matters.

"Just like peoples faces are all different,
so too, are their minds different."

(Midrash)
 
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The happy Objectivist

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Well, one usually worships a god,

What then is worship?

Your life has value but you are not the source of it.

If you allowed yourself a little time to study "repentence"

you would find that repentence means "Return".

Return to the source of all life.

Also return the soul to the state of purity it was in on coming into this world.

So, not the negative concept one usually connects with it.

But a gift.

I do not ever try to convince anyone in these matters.

"Just like peoples faces are all different,
so too, are their minds different."

(Midrash)
Existence is the source of life and far as I know, I've never left existence, so there's no need to return to it.
 
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