Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

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BNR32FAN

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I think @Tree of Life 's point is that he doesn't think his religion can dictate how people who don't share his religious beliefs live. Which is quite correct. If I'm not a conservative Christian, why should I have to live by the implications of your belief?

Freedom of religion is a widely recognized civil right now among most traditional Protestant churches, and also to a great extent, in Catholicism.

I don’t see anything like that in his post. What he is saying is that such a person is not exhibiting evidence of their conversion. This has nothing to do with people who don’t share his religious beliefs.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Post: Pope Francis backs same-sex civil unions

iu

I think it is very likely that this is being taken out of context. The statement they quoted is not supporting homosexual marriages.

“Homosexual people have a right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”

I think we can all agree that the same could be said about any sinner. I don’t see any statement here that is supportive of homosexual marriages. I suspect this is being taken out of context.
 
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SkyWriting

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That's a given.

I didn't see where I indicated I "get to do the damning"?


Right here: "we're talking damnable sin here."

Simply, we are not involved in any sin trial or decision or have any background to any facts or observations. We are not even the court reporter.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Right here: "we're talking damnable sin here."

Simply, we are not involved in any sin trial or decision or have any background to any facts or observations. We are not even the court reporter.

We can be involved in pointing out what damnable sin is, and there is no scripture denying us the right.

No one here is judging anyone.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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So how do you tell which parts of Leviticus are moral law and which are ceremonial law? I've read it, and I don't recall seeing anything which specifies.

In any case, the things that you included in moral laws are things that can be shown to cause harm to people and society (apart from the honouring God thing, since I don't, and yet I don't cause harm to society - if you disagree, please tell me how I do). But I can't for the life of me figure out how what a gay couple does in private can harm society.

The values reiterated in the New Testament. You wouldn't say we are no longer under the Ten Commandments, would you? Do you believe it's ok to steal, lie, and commit adultery now since we are no longer under law?

No. Of course not. Most are enshrined in our actual law as well as our spiritual law. Jesus and various Apostles make this very clear in the New Testament what continues.

Matthew 16:21 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” 17And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You pay a tenth of mint, dill, and cumin, and yet you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These things should have been done without neglecting the others.

Romans 1:21-32
21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Final paragraph above is pretty serious. If one fails to do what the Lord says, He won't strike us dead - He will let one do what he wants...and look what follows in that last paragraph! That's pretty serious. You don't see any such warnings about failing to use the correct cup or do the worship service in an order or sacrifice animals.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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I can't help but feel you are trying to make it more complicated in an attempt to muddy the waters. I'm pretty sure you know exactly what I'm getting at here, so please stop trying to avoid it.
I'm asking a legitimate question. Believers don't just go around telling everyone what to do in their personal lives. If the door opens to that conversation, that's one thing.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Okay, I admit, that is a false dichotomy. Let me rephrase it.

If two people wish to have sex and they are going to take steps to ensure procreation does not take place, do you think they are doing something wrong?



Yes, and I do respect a Christian's right to their moral beliefs.

However, that respect ends at the point they try to enforce their moral beliefs on others.
I'm not Steve, but it does not matter what *I* think about other people having sex. It DOES matter what God says to do. And if He has proscribed it, I'm in no position to disagree with Him. Any sexual activity outside of biblical marriage is sexual immorality, according to the Word...not me.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Say who say? You can even consider the sin of another

You don't get to do the damning though.

You still haven't shown me where I said I "get to do the damning" because its simply not there. You misread, or are reading something into what I said. I am merely stating this is a damnable sin.

If you want to be leave people with the impression there is still hope for homosexuals living in sin, that is up to you, but I would guess that, in itself, would be a substantial sin...very substantial and something that does the homosexual a great diservice.

So if you think I am doing wrong by simply pointing out this is a damnable sin, so too is Paul, (and notice he too is damning no one either, but mnerely pointing out where the sin leads or that it is damnable:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality.
 
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Rajni

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These people are not converted.
That's a call only God can make. But you knew that, right? ;)

We can be involved in pointing out what damnable sin is, and there is no scripture denying us the right.

No one here is judging anyone.
Sin is an action. According to what I was taught during my Christian phase -- actions don't get damned. Souls do. So yeah, people -- not actions -- are being judged here.
 
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SkyWriting

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I am merely stating this is a damnable sin.
And there is no such thing. So that ends that.
Well there is one....but it's a philosophical one, also impossible to identify.
 
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SkyWriting

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You still haven't shown me where I said I "get to do the damning" because its simply not there. You misread, or are reading something into what I said. I am merely stating this is a damnable sin.

If you want to be leave people with the impression there is still hope for homosexuals living in sin, that is up to you, but I would guess that, in itself, would be a substantial sin...very substantial and something that does the homosexual a great diservice.

So if you think I am doing wrong by simply pointing out this is a damnable sin, so too is Paul, (and notice he too is damning no one either, but mnerely pointing out where the sin leads or that it is damnable:

1 Corinthians 6:9
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality.
Indeed we cannot see or identify sin in other people. Only in ourselves.
There is no "pointing" that is valid unless it is requested.

You might recall the prostitute that everyone was pointing at where Jesus explained why such pointing is hogwash. Yes, Jesus did a far better job of explaining clearly than Paul ever did. It's easier if you are the Truth.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Then why is it that all those other laws from Leviticus are no longer in effect?

If you are talking biblical laws against homosexuality, they are still in affect. See the last paragraph of my prior post.

So how do you tell which parts of Leviticus are moral law and which are ceremonial law? I've read it, and I don't recall seeing anything which specifies.

You tell by looking and seeing some are cerimonial, and and some are not. Most people can discern the difference, but if you have trouble with that, by all means post those here and we can probably help.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Sin is an action. According to what I was taught during my Christian phase -- actions don't get damned. Souls do. So yeah, people -- not actions -- are being judged here.

Read my last post on this. Also, show me where I judged anyone, or did anything more than point out what sin was damnable.

As per my last post, you are essentually saying Paul is wrong for pointing out practicing Homosexuals are damned, snnd that's not good at all.

So, you basically disagree with the bible.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Indeed we cannot see or identify sin in other people.

You aren't paying attention...was Paul wrong in itentifying the sin/sins in the Corinthians scripture I quoted, and for telling people they will be damned for living in that sin?
 
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Kenny'sID

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Indeed we cannot see or identify sin in other people. Only in ourselves.
There is no "pointing" that is valid unless it is requested.

You might recall the prostitute that everyone was pointing at where Jesus explained why such pointing is hogwash. Yes, Jesus did a far better job of explaining clearly than Paul ever did. It's easier if you are the Truth.

You skipped the question. And before you ask what question, please reread the post to which you replied, it's in there.

Now, will you please show me where I said I "get to do the damning"?
 
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SkyWriting

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You aren't paying attention...was Paul wrong in itentifying the sin/sins in the Corinthians scripture I quoted, and for telling people they will be damned for living in that sin?

As I explained, Paul is a crumb on Jesus' bare foot when it comes to Truth.
His words are like a smelly foot compared to Jesus' explanations.
I realize, many people put Jesus second after Paul. It's sad.

They would prefer to point at the prostitute.
Maybe it's how she dresses that keeps them looking.
People LOVE to look at sin. And point.
 
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SkyWriting

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If you are talking biblical laws against homosexuality, they are still in effect.

No different than any other law. Forgiveness, kindness, etc.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
 
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