God loves us just the way we are?

Good morning neo, ill just leave this here for you okay?


God ultimately desires to have a relationship with all people, and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God to help people who are weak in faith, or have no faith at all.

Romans 15: We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please our neighbors for their good, to build them up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: “The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me.” 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

Galatians 5: 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

1 John 2: My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous. 2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.

3 And we can be sure that we know him if we obey his commandments. 4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth. 5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him. 6 Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world (everyone) that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.


Here is the lifestyle choices one can make: Galatians 5: 19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, 21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I personally do not believe we can be sinlessly perfect but God can help us with the lifestyle choices in our lives if we seek God first and foremost over all else the world has to offer. We will still fall short from time to time, we also go through endurance test, that we have to go through which makes our faith validated.

God does most certainly still love you, and welcomes everyone to join the light.

Hey brother neo, im not here to debate, but give the truth. You enjoy your morning and have a good day, fixing to go to work here.

Neostarwcc said:

This is the one part of Reformed theology that I just cannot grasp and understand, maybe somebody can use scripture to help me understand?

It's common among Reformed Theologians and preachers that God does not love every individual unconditionally no matter what they do. That the Bible says that God abhors sinners and loves those who does what is right in his sight.

Okay, I can grasp that and that is not what a majority of pastors teach these days. Probably because Pastors want to bring in as many converts as possible into the Church so they'll water a lot of things down.

But what I don't understand is, and what IMO every Christian should be asking themselves is, what exactly is "right in God's sight?". Holiness and sinlessness obviously, but surely Reformed Theologians haven't been teaching sinless perfectionism for hundreds of years! Surely we Reformed understand the sinful condition of the human being and the fact that we WILL sin and cannot POSSIBLY live the perfect live that God would want and expect from us.

So, what are we teaching? Why does God love his Children and yet hate those who do wickedness? What causes him to love us over all the rest? Why does he love some Jews and other Jews he calls not his people? Why did he choose the great multitude of people that he did? When we were sinners that have sinned against him and before he unhardens us have absolutely NO good qualities that would cause God to love us?

Why?

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If people would look at what God has done for us in Christ, all the questions would be resolved.

1. Crucified in Christ. Our old, sinful nature is dead and buried. The "I" of Adam is "crossed" out.
2. Hidden in Christ. God does not look at us in isolation any more.
3. We are declared righteous in Christ
4. We have new life in Christ, something that Adam never received
5. All our sins are forgiven, even what we've not done yet
6. We are acceptable to God in Christ, "in the Beloved".
7. We are raised to new life in Christ - our new spirit is the part of us that is born again.
8. We are new creations, you guessed it, in Christ.
9. It is of God that you are in Christ Jesus. Who is going to take you out?
10. While were still sinners, God loved us.

If we focus on ourselves and our problems, or worse, other people's problems, for sure we will struggle. If we walk in the light, if we walk in the new life that we have received (not earned), we will live in victory. We triumph over adversity, we do not avoid it.

Neostarwcc said:

But that isn't the case. If it was why did God love Jacob and hate Esau? Or Cain and not Abel? Or why would scripture say all over the place from the Prophets, to Christ, to the Apostles that God abhors the wicked and loves those who do what is pleasing in his sight?

Yes, for God so loved the world. There are many different interpretations given over the last 2 centuries of John 3:16. Many of them are that Jesus (Or John whoever spoke those famous words nobody really knows) was not talking about everybody that lived in the world but was talking about people from AROUND the world. You know, the four corners of the Earth? There is not a tribe, people, or nation where salvation has not to come to. There are even saved Chinese and Japanese people, Ethiopians, Pagan indian tribes, everywhere. The Gospel has literally hit the entire world. That's what they were talking about. Not that everyone that has ever lived has not only earned God's love but has had the chance of salvation. Even the Nicene Creed denies that.

If God loved the entire world he wouldn't have sealed the ark permanently dooming all who lived on the Earth at the time to die to the flood.

He wouldn't have killed a whole bunch of Jews in his anger for worshiping the golden calf. He wouldn't have destroyed Sodom and Gommorah. The book of Revelation wouldn't be filled with poetry of mankind's wickedness and God's punishments and plagues to them.

Also, John's statement in his letters that Christ died for the entire world has been debated for thousands of years as well as to its meaning. Just because Arminian's interpret it one way does not mean that another way that has been debated and believed for a longer period of time isn't true. If God died for the entire world than he lied while he was on Earth because he said that he was dying for the sheep.

Yes, Christ showed "favoritism" to sinners when he was on the Earth. As did the Apostles but have you noticed that each and every one of those sinners repented before him and became believers? Including Paul?

I don't mean to spread messages of hate. I just mean to spread that scripture doesn't say what you think it does. If it did, scripture would contradict itself and the Prophets at the very least, would be liars.

I mean, I could debate all day long. But, it's early in the morning and I haven't eaten yet. I'll talk to you later.

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You misunderstand God's ways. Those He loves, He chastens. God made a covenant with Israel that included blessing and cursing. Israel agreed. They received the blessings when they obeyed and hard times when they disobeyed. The reason why God destroyed humanity is not what most people think. Noah was a sinner like everyone else. However, his family bloodline was not corrupted by intermarriage with the "sons of God". And people could have joined Noah, but they refused to believe the warnings.

God told Abraham what He was going to do to Sodom. Abraham appealed to God for mercy and God agreed to spare Sodom. The problem was that there were too few righteous to warrant God's mercy to be shown.

I had many questions as a young believer. I battled Satan in my mind. He was accusing God of being unfair and unjust. God spoke to me very simply. "What about the cross?" That settled every doubt and silenced Satan's voice. God IS Love. We need to know this. Will that answer every question or objection? No. But who said that we have to understand everything? That day will come. Until then, we need faith.

I do not regard myself as a reform theologian, so not sure if I can answer from that view point.

Does God love us just the way we are? I think not for Christ came to redeem us from our pitiful estate. According to the gospel I think it would be right to say that God loves us right where we're at, that is: with the love of grace, which is the gift of Christ.

To prove this love Christ died for sinners and he died for all, but not all will be saved. I do not wish to debate the why for this because, on the one hand the Bible declares that not all will believe or choose salvation, and on the other it shows that God chooses not to save all. So my understanding of the choice is that it is mutual but God is always sovereign in every matter. I believe you must choose because the Bible [God's word] says you must choose but I also see that God is the originator of faith and not we ourselves.

To understand why God loved Jacob and hated Esau you need only to look at their choices, yet understand that Jacob was obviously chosen from his mother's womb. Why do I say this? Because of the circumstances of their birth.

When you look at Esau's choices you can see that he thought little of his family's godly tradition and rebelled against it. He had little respect for his God given position in life showing that his rebellion was not only against his parents but God himself.

His behaviour was like that of the man mentioned in the Psalms, "The fool has said in his heart, no god for me."

Jacob, on the other hand, clung to his belief in God and, though not the perfect man in our eyes, sought every blessing that God gave.

We never hear of Esau coming into contact with God but Jacob dreamed the dreams of God and fought with God to get a blessing at which time God covenanted with him, giving him a new name Israel.

Jacob sought to do what was right. As it is written the just shall live by faith.

What is faith? Faith comes to God believing that he is real and a rewarder of those who diligently seek him [and his favour].

Esau never looked to God, Jacob always looked to God.

There is so much the Old Testament can teach us about true faith. Faith is not simply saying, I believe; faith is doing what you believe.

Remember what Jesus said? "Not all who say to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of God; only those who do the will of my Father."

Those whom Christ admonished were those that paid him lip service only, claiming to have done great things in his name, yet he claims he never knew them.

God said, in Noah's day, "My Spirit will not always strive with man [and we could also say, a man]."

We need to be aware of this.

Yes, God so loved an entire world lost in sin and bound to corruption and death that he gave his only son. In this manner God loves all.

Yet, only those who will believe in his son [thus also believing in him] have everlasting life. These continue in the love of God and are now sons by faith and the Holy Ghost. Now we have moved from a compassionate love to a familial love. We are loved as sons. This is the love Jacob experienced that Esau did not for Esau never believed.

We can never become sons except by God. Through Christ he is the author and completer of our faith. No man saves themselves, we cannot, but, when we actively trust in Christ believing in his work and obeying his word, we are born, not by what we have done, but by the Spirit. No one can make themself a son, only the Father can bare children, and only a father chooses to adopt.

Jacob was made a son through faith. Esau was not. The same applies to every person.

What we must do to avail ourselves of this wonderful salvation is repent and believe the gospel.

Neostarwcc said:

This is the one part of Reformed theology that I just cannot grasp and understand, maybe somebody can use scripture to help me understand?

It's common among Reformed Theologians and preachers that God does not love every individual unconditionally no matter what they do. That the Bible says that God abhors sinners and loves those who does what is right in his sight.

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The Bile also says that Christ died for sinners.

Neostarwcc said:

Okay, I can grasp that and that is not what a majority of pastors teach these days. Probably because Pastors want to bring in as many converts as possible into the Church so they'll water a lot of things down.

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That's some accusation; that Ministers water down the Gospel just to get bums on seats.

Neostarwcc said:

But what I don't understand is, and what IMO every Christian should be asking themselves is, what exactly is "right in God's sight?".

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For me, the question is answered in John 6:29 and John 6:40.
It is God's will that people should come to Jesus and believe in him, and he works so that this might happen.

When someone believes and trusts in his Son, they are righteous before God, 2 Corinthians 5:21. When someone is IN Christ they have every spiritual blessing, Ephesians 1:3, plus the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Ephesians 1:14. The Spirit, who lives in us, is transforming us into Jesus' image and likeness, 2 Corinthian 3:18.

Neostarwcc said:

Holiness and sinlessness obviously, but surely Reformed Theologians haven't been teaching sinless perfectionism for hundreds of years! Surely we Reformed understand the sinful condition of the human being and the fact that we WILL sin and cannot POSSIBLY live the perfect live that God would want and expect from us.

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Even the best Christians still sin, in thought, word or deed - we still live in a fallen world, and the devil is still trying to tempt us and spoil our relationship with God.
The important thing is to recognise when we sin and fall, repent, ask for help and get up again.

Neostarwcc said:

So, what are we teaching? Why does God love his Children and yet hate those who do wickedness?

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He loves people because he made everyone in his image, Genesis 1:26-27 and breathed life into us, Genesis 2:7. He hates sin, but he sent his Son to rescue sinners, Mark 10:45, Luke 10:19, Romans 5:8.

Neostarwcc said:

What causes him to love us over all the rest?

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He loves everyone.

Neostarwcc said:

Why does he love some Jews and other Jews he calls not his people?

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God loves everyone, yet chooses some for particular purposes.
To the Hebrews, if God didn't choose someone it meant that he hated them, - "I loved Jacob but hated Esau" - but it doesn't mean hated as in despised.

The OT says that God called the whole nation out of Egypt. ALL saw the miracles, were rescued and were provided for in the wilderness, yet it is also clear that not all believed in and trusted the God who rescued them. God called those who believed in his word and did his will, "his people."
Same with the NT and today. God loves everyone and Jesus died for all, he also made everyone in his image. But only those who believe, and do, his word and who trust in his Son are his people, i.e belong to him. The good news is that the number of God's people can grow; others can believe in him and come to know him.

Neostarwcc said:

When we were sinners that have sinned against him and before he unhardens us have absolutely NO good qualities that would cause God to love us?

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God loves us because he is love and because he made us.
No one can be good enough to earn God's love, or do enough good deeds so that God says, "I'll love them now". It all starts with God; we love because he first loved us, 1 John 4:19.

Don't know anything about reformed but I do know God loves everyone and says we need to love all the people as well. Even our enemies.
Matthew 5:44

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;”
Matthew 5:45

“That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”