Your thoughts on the identity of Babylon in Revelation 17

parousia70 · Feb 5, 2021

Berean Tim said:
I don't believe it's irrelevant and useless. I'm a Futurist,

Well, you did claim that if a prophesy is already fulfilled, it is therefore now useless and "irrelevant" did you not?
Are you Building an Ark?

Freedm · Feb 5, 2021

santiago77 said:
Hello Douggg. The Peace of Jesus, "The Jewish Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature, be with you...You say:<<<phesians 2:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.<< WHO "IS SAVED"?!!! ARE YOU?!! Brother James....

So... it's nice that you wish for God to be with everyone, but is it really necessary to prefix every single post with it?

Freedm · Feb 5, 2021

OldWiseGuy said:
Many of our streets, lined with homes from which property taxes are extracted, are crumbing. However we have the nicest circuit of newly constructed bike paths, used mostly by students, who don't pay taxes. These bike paths are paid for by those same citizens whose streets are crumbling. How ironic. The bike paths are even plowed before our streets are, so the students can get their daily exercise. It's madness I tell you (and don't get me started about our lakes).

Ha! I think this same story is playing itself out across all cities in North America right now. For some reason all city councils seem obsessed with bike lanes at the expense of driving lanes that are actually used. It's like they all got the same memo or something. In my city bike lanes also get plowing priority. Very strange.

Berean Tim · Feb 5, 2021

parousia70 said:
Well, you did claim that if a prophesy is already fulfilled, it is therefore now useless and "irrelevant" did you not?
Are you Building an Ark?

Where did I claim that ? I think you might still be a little angry about to calling you out on the ECF's and Antichrist false statement you made. You're reading in to the things I wrote.

ViaCrucis · Feb 5, 2021

santiago77 said:
Hello Douggg...The Peace of Jesus, The Jewish "Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, the God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature, be with you....You say:<<<Why are you infatuated with Abraham? It is Jesus who saves. I don't have eternal life because of Abraham<< See!! If you do not belong to the people of Abraham then you will not live with His God..= Gal. 3:24-29;14...See!!! Meaning that Jesus, "The Jewish Christ" is RIGHT in Matthew 25:41 = 1 John 5:19...See!! You have not eternal life, never have never will if you continue listening to lucifer, I will tell you "AGAIN" that fellow is a tricky, tricky, tricky merciless fellow...You say:<<Everyone according to the rules in this eschatology forum who participate are Christians - i.e. saved.<< I know..ONLY A REMNANT "IS SAVED BY GRACE"= Romans 11:5..And!! You are not among'em....OR!! Can you give me one single scripture that you've been saved "BY GRACE"?!!!!..Brother James....

So who made you the arbiter of who is or isn't saved? Deal with your own sin and problems and repent.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Feb 5, 2021

santiago77 said:
Hello Douggg. The Peace of Jesus, "The Jewish Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father,

What do you mean by calling Christ "the Holy Spirit, the Eternal Father"? You do know that Jesus, as the eternally begotten Son of the Father, is a distinct Person of the Trinity right?

This comes across as a denial of the Trinity to me, but I'm hoping I'm wrong and you were simply careless in your words.

-CryptoLutheran

Matt5 · Feb 5, 2021

klutedavid said:
That is the number of the name of the beast, in Arabic you say?

The text (Revelation) was written in Koine Greek.

So how do we know which language to use in determining the number of his name?

One doesn't know for sure which language to use. I would think that the Arabic numbering system and Greek numbering systems would be high on the list.

I think it's like a big puzzle. Any particular piece has to fit into the big picture. Does Islam fit into a bigger end-time picture? Islamic prophecy does seem interesting. That kind of points a finger at Allah.

ViaCrucis · Feb 5, 2021

Matt5 said:
One doesn't know for sure which language to use. I would think that the Arabic numbering system and Greek numbering systems would be high on the list.

I think it's like a big puzzle. Any particular piece has to fit into the big picture. Does Islam fit into a bigger end-time picture? Islamic prophecy does seem interesting. That kind of points a finger at Allah.

Allah is simply the Arabic word for God. Arabic speaking Jews and Christians, both before and after the advent of Islam, used the word "Allah". In the same way that God is called Theos by the Greeks, Deus by the Latins, Alaha by the Syrians, and Eloha in Hebrew.

Also, Arabic numerals didn't originate among the Arabs, but originate from the Indian subcontinent. We call them "Arabic numerals" simply because they entered into use in Europe through Arab influence (along with all manner of other things, such as mathematics and many of the sciences). This Arab influence in mathematics can be seen not only in acting as middle-men through which Indian numerals entered into European usage, but also in that we speak of algebra (Arabic al-jabara), or the words alchemy/chemistry (al-kimiya).

At any rate, there's no reason to assume some grand Islamic conspiracy. This is largely just Islamophobic nonsense.

-CryptoLutheran

parousia70 · Feb 5, 2021

Berean Tim said:
Where did I claim that ?

Wait... so when OTHER PEOPLE people claim a prophesy is fulfilled, you "conclude" they are saying the prophesy "is irrelevant", but when you claim a prophesy is fulfilled, we should not likewise "conclude" you believe "it's irrelevant"?

It's different somehow when you do it?

Is that it?

Berean Tim · Feb 5, 2021

parousia70 said:
Wait... so when OTHER PEOPLE people claim a prophesy is fulfilled, you "conclude" they are saying the prophesy "is irrelevant", but when you claim a prophesy is fulfilled, we should not likewise "conclude" you believe "it's irrelevant"?

It's different somehow when you do it?

Is that it?

So I was right you just made it up

klutedavid · Feb 5, 2021

Matt5 said:
One doesn't know for sure which language to use. I would think that the Arabic numbering system and Greek numbering systems would be high on the list.

I think it's like a big puzzle. Any particular piece has to fit into the big picture. Does Islam fit into a bigger end-time picture? Islamic prophecy does seem interesting. That kind of points a finger at Allah.

A puzzle or a mystery to us all?

parousia70 · Feb 5, 2021

Berean Tim said:
So I was right you just made it up

Perhaps a refresher is in order:

You said:

Berean Tim said:
There's really nothing I can say to that. If you believe Revelation isn't relevant, I don't understand why you would even comment.

ViaCrucis responds:

I'm not sure why you think I don't think think the Apocalypse is relevant.

You explain:

Berean Tim said:
You wrote,"The Apocalypse wasn't written to us, or to some group of people living at the end of the world--it's written to Christians living in the first century, in the province of Asia."
This is why I came to that conclusion.

Which brings my back to my original query:

Why is it you conclude that when someone else Says a prophesy wasn’t written TO us, that it’s not relevant to them, yet when you say a prophesy wasn’t written TO us, it still gets to be relevant to you?

I brought up the prophesy of the flood as an example.

If you were consistent, we would have to conclude you don’t find the flood prophesy relevant in any way to the modem Christian, and therefore it is an unnecessary part of our Bibles, totally irrelevant and useless to us today.

How am I wrong to conclude that is what you believe?

or, again, is it different somehow when you do it?

klutedavid · Feb 5, 2021

Freedm said:
Ha! I think this same story is playing itself out across all cities in North America right now. For some reason all city councils seem obsessed with bike lanes at the expense of driving lanes that are actually used. It's like they all got the same memo or something. In my city bike lanes also get plowing priority. Very strange.

Get yourself a bike and life will be wonderful again.

ViaCrucis · Feb 6, 2021

santiago77 said:
Hello There...The Peace of Christ, The "Jewish Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, God of Abraham and the Living God in His Human nature...be with you....You say:<<
What do you mean by calling Christ "the Holy Spirit, the Eternal Father"? You do know that Jesus, as the eternally begotten Son of the Father, is a distinct Person of the Trinity right?

This comes across as a denial of the Trinity to me, but I'm hoping I'm wrong and you were simply careless in your words.<< The trinity of "Christendom=lucifer and his spiritual wife the catolic church and his daughters the protestant denominations, was coined in the year 170 by Quintus Septimus Florens Tertulianus a.k.a Tertullian....There were docens of trias before him from babylon to egypt...the trinity is the body of lucifer and his name jehovah, yahweh, yaveh, baphomet, etc..etc.etc..c.YOu say:<<You do know that Jesus, as the eternally begotten Son of the Father, is a distinct Person of the Trinity right?>> In lucifer's religion it is, not in Christianity=Spiritual Judaism....The Son was born so he can not be eternal, and he also died....You say:<<This comes across as a denial of the Trinity to me, but I'm hoping I'm wrong and you were simply careless in your words.<< YOu are CORRECT!! In your religion, not in My Doctrine, The Holy Scriptures, the Gospels and the doctrine of Jesus "The Jewish Christ"=(Since you have a catolic-roman, babylonian, mesopotamian, asirian, persian, egyptian, greek christ.....)You have "A FALSE CHRIST"=Matthew 24:4, 20, 23-25..Who is lucifer playing the part of the True Christ....Happy, HOly Sabbath-Day of Rest of the God of Abraham and His REMNANT (SAVED BY GRACE = Romans 11:5..The Spiritual Jews)...Brother James...

Okay, so you do deny the Holy Trinity.

This is a Christians only area, and according to the rules of the forum one can only post in the Christians only parts of the forum if you subscribe to the Nicene Creed.

-CryptoLutheran

Douggg · Feb 7, 2021

santiago77 said:
Hello Freedm.. The Peace of Jesus, "The Jewish Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and The Living God in His human nature...be with you...You say::<<it's nice that you wish for God to be with everyone, but is it really necessary to prefix every single post with it?

<< SOOOO!!! You believe or think the God of Abraham has a problem with it? 'cause I don't, do you?!! Brother James....[/QUOTE]

santiago, have you ever heard the term "preaching to the choir"?

You are in a thread about the identity of Babylon of Revelation 17. Who/what do you think Babylon in Revelation 17 is ?

Douggg · Feb 7, 2021

santiago77 said:
santiago, have you ever heard the term "preaching to the choir"?

You are in a thread about the identity of Babylon of Revelation 17. Who/what do you think Babylon in Revelation 17 is ?

Hello Dougg...The Peace of Jesus, The "Jewish Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, God of Abraham and The Living God, in His human nature be with you...You say:<<santiago, have you ever heard the term "preaching to the choir"?<< NOPE!! Can you explain it for me please, or would it be a burden too for you?!!!You say:<<You are in a thread about the identity of Babylon of Revelation 17. Who/what do you think Babylon in Revelation 17 is ?When I joined I saw only "Christian Forums"...Besides?!! Why would I be interested on babylon, being of the "REMNANT"?!! Does that make sense to you...Yes! I lived in the spiritual babylon for 50 years 25 years with the catolics and 25 with the protestants...."I'M PAST THAT"..LONGO AGO!!!!! I Belong to the Spiritual Israel the Israel of Jesus "The Jewish Christ"= Titus 2:13-15 + 3:5-7 = Psalm 102:18 = Ephesiasn 2:15 = 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 = Ephesians 5:24-27....I hope it helps you to understand where I come from and where 'am going to....Brother James....[/QUOTE]
So you think Babylon in Revelation 17 is the catholic church?

______________________________________________________________________

"preaching to the choir" means -Preaching to the choir means you are trying to make believers out of people who already believe, or convince people who are already convinced.

Berean Tim · Feb 7, 2021

parousia70 said:
Perhaps a refresher is in order:

You said:

ViaCrucis responds:

You explain:

Which brings my back to my original query:

Why is it you conclude that when someone else Says a prophesy wasn’t written TO us, that it’s not relevant to them, yet when you say a prophesy wasn’t written TO us, it still gets to be relevant to you?

I brought up the prophesy of the flood as an example.

If you were consistent, we would have to conclude you don’t find the flood prophesy relevant in any way to the modem Christian, and therefore it is an unnecessary part of our Bibles, totally irrelevant and useless to us today.

How am I wrong to conclude that is what you believe?

or, again, is it different somehow when you do it?

Lets review,
ViaCrucis also stated they took Revelation out of their reading list. ....if it's not important to read.

Concerning Noah. You're jumping to conclusions. Jesus said, "in the days of Noah" in Matthew 24. Also Peter used Noah as an example to those who mock the return of Christ.

You're prone to doing to making false statements like "no ECF's mentioned the AntiChrist" Which was easily disproven.

You accusation that I ignore Noah is equally false

food4thought · Feb 14, 2021

Wow! Thank you all for the interesting answers and perspectives! I got distracted (starting new job, extra days and hours at my current job to help when I leave at the end of this week, a few other things...), and even had to cancel my Bible study the last two weeks. I still owe a response to the claim that Jerusalem was/is the Babylon of Revelation, and will really try to get to studying the Scriptures provided in the post on page 1 (can't remember the poster) this week. God bless each of you as you seek to follow Him!

Jipsah · Feb 16, 2021

Matt5 said:
That kind of points a finger at Allah.

If you ever sttend a Coptic Orthodox service, you'll find they refer to Allah a lot, probably because that's how they refer to God the Father. Careful where you swing that stick.

Inkfingers · Feb 20, 2021

Babylon is Urban-industrial society that thinks technology is its saviour.

Your thoughts on the identity of Babylon in Revelation 17

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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Confessional Lutheran

Confessional Lutheran

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Confessional Lutheran

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Loving truth

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