Is it Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism?

.

Andrewn said:

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists.

Click to expand...

If you believe in equality then you should tend to believe that Christianity is no better or worse than Islam. In reality, you would believe that Islam is better because you know the West cheated to get ahead. Christianity would get much of that blame.

In Islam the supremacists are good Muslims. In the following video one can see that violence is how Islam spread across the Middle East and beyond. It shows a map of Muslim battles at 20 year increments and then the Crusades battles.

Bill Warner, PhD: Jihad vs Crusades - YouTube

I guess the video really just shows how Christians provoked Muslims from the beginning. Christians are naturally extremists. Muslims are the good guys who are just trying to protect themselves.

Andrewn said:

The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

Click to expand...

They came out of the closet because of Trump. It's not so clear how to put them back though. 100 bills have been introduced in states to restrict voting. It's pretty clear that while most aren't violent, the determination to support conservatism no matter what is popular among almost half the population.

One NYTimes opinion writer suggested that we should look to Joseph McCarthy and the red scare as a model. It did in fact largely vanish pretty quickly. We can only hope.

Is it Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism?

Sure. Jesus taught in John 18:36. ESV, "Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”

They weren't fighting for Jesus, they were fighting for their politics.

Andrewn said:

"For two decades, the U.S. government has been engaging with faith leaders in Muslim communities at home and around the world in an attempt to stamp out extremism and prevent believers vulnerable to radicalization from going down a path that leads to violence.

"Now, after the dangerous QAnon conspiracy theory helped to motivate the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, with many participants touting their Christian faith — and as evangelical pastors throughout the country ache over the spread of the conspiracy theory among their flocks, and its very real human toll — it’s worth asking whether the time has come for a new wave of outreach to religious communities, this time aimed at evangelical Christians."

It’s Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists. The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

Click to expand...

It does not help the Christian cause when so many Christians are ardent gun enthusiasts. It's easy to get the impression that American Christians are trigger happy.

People tend to get excitable when the way of life they enjoy is threatened. If the threat comes from other ethnic and/or religious groups, then that is seized upon as reason to attack them. It's not just white v non-white. It is Fijian v Indian v Chinese, Malay v Chinese, Sri Lankan v Tamil - the list is as extensive as the number of races within a nation. As population increases, the pressure increases.

White supremacists may have believed that Mr Trump was more sympathetic to their perceived (and often real) plight. That may have encouraged them to become more aggressive.

Christians who resort to violence are disobeying God's word. Jesus said that His kingdom is not of this world.

Andrewn said:

The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence?

Click to expand...

It is probably a good idea for me to skip this thread. But, I have to say it because you probably don't know it. . Black people and even the F.B.I. have been trying to show it to you, but you have refused to see it. It has never been "in the closet". Maybe it has been "in the closet" in your own minds.Yes, some of the people involved in violence against people of color have been good evangelical white Christians. Now, watch how defensive some on CF get because of this post.

Handmaid for Jesus said:

It is probably a good idea for me to skip this thread. But, I have to say it because you probably don't know it. . Black people and even the F.B.I. have been trying to show it to you, but you have refused to see it. It has never been "in the closet". Maybe it has been "in the closet" in your own minds.Yes, some of the people involved in violence against people of color have been good evangelical white Christians. Now, watch how defensive some on CF get because of this post.

Click to expand...

This is a fair comment. White supremacy has been all too visible to many people. However I think it's become more visible to the rest of us in the last 4 years.

Andrewn said:

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists...Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence?

Click to expand...

On one level, I think your intuitions here are correct. Radicalization is radicalization. It matters very little whether a person asserts that he is a part of this or that religion or no religion at all. If any person has been radicalized and is open to acting violently, that person (or group of persons) must be opposed by the wider society.

Aussie Pete said:

White supremacists may have believed that Mr Trump was more sympathetic to their perceived (and often real) plight. That may have encouraged them to become more aggressive.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with Bill Maher that all of these folks (from Islamic terrorists to Evangelical white supremacists are the fringes of their overarching cultures). Maher's past extreme and unfortunate comments about Muslims notwithstanding... They are not the mainstream, nor are they anything approaching a majority. They are, rather, a small (though vocal and active!) minority. As Maher said in this video, "let's not confuse 5,000 people with 74 million."

And let's acknowledge the real-world plights that occur in people's lives that make them susceptible to being radicalized, to include financial troubles and the desperation entailed by them. I'm sure that Maher is far too leftist for many here. But, when he says of Ashli Babbett, that "all she knew is that she lives in a state that seems to care more about her toxic whiteness than her toxic brokeness. And that the state that's run entirely by Democrats? Yeah, they didn't stop anyone from charging her 169% interest on a loan either." Spot on! Get em, Maher. Get all of them, Right or Left.

hedrick said:

They came out of the closet because of Trump...It's pretty clear that while most aren't violent, the determination to support conservatism no matter what is popular among almost half the population.

Click to expand...

I do have to say that it says something fairly alarming that Trump was able to increase his percentage of the popular vote in 2020 (over 2016), and that this percentage increase occurred during the highest turnout ever for a presidential election. Which is to say, that despite all that Trump showed Americans that he was (for four years) he still managed to increase his numbers during his reelection race! To me, that's an amazing fact. He lost in 2020 mostly because he lost key states, not because he didn't have enough votes cast for him overall.

But, the percentage of 2020 Trump voters who would riot and storm the capitol? Miniscule. They must be opposed, but let's not exaggerate about their numbers (any more than we should exaggerate about violent Muslims).

Andrewn said:

"For two decades, the U.S. government has been engaging with faith leaders in Muslim communities at home and around the world in an attempt to stamp out extremism and prevent believers vulnerable to radicalization from going down a path that leads to violence.

"Now, after the dangerous QAnon conspiracy theory helped to motivate the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, with many participants touting their Christian faith — and as evangelical pastors throughout the country ache over the spread of the conspiracy theory among their flocks, and its very real human toll — it’s worth asking whether the time has come for a new wave of outreach to religious communities, this time aimed at evangelical Christians."

It’s Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists. The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

Click to expand...

Christian Nationalism , though an oxymoron, is Dominionism at its peak of deception. Some Evangelicals have formed an alliance with the power of flesh and have forsaken their first love, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Research the Seven Mountain Mandate, Dominionism, Christian Nationalism, Christian Zionism, Kingdom Now, NAR,Joel's Army, Preppers, etc. etc.... It is good to know the roots in order to understand the fruition. Though bigotry may not be readily apparent, it is there to some degree, nevertheless. Be blessed.

Andrewn said:

"For two decades, the U.S. government has been engaging with faith leaders in Muslim communities at home and around the world in an attempt to stamp out extremism and prevent believers vulnerable to radicalization from going down a path that leads to violence.

"Now, after the dangerous QAnon conspiracy theory helped to motivate the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, with many participants touting their Christian faith — and as evangelical pastors throughout the country ache over the spread of the conspiracy theory among their flocks, and its very real human toll — it’s worth asking whether the time has come for a new wave of outreach to religious communities, this time aimed at evangelical Christians."

It’s Time to Talk About Violent Christian Extremism

I've often thought of White Supremacists as equivalent to Islamic Supremacists. The question is why are White Supremacists coming out of the closet now? Are Evangelical Christians involved in Supremacist violence? And, whether true or not, do non-Christians think so? Are they coming to get us, as some believe?

Click to expand...

Well I’ve noticed that more people are driving electric and hybrid vehicles now so perhaps that is the cause for the recent incline in white supremacy.

Magnanimity said:

I tend to agree with Bill Maher that all of these folks (from Islamic terrorists to Evangelical white supremacists are the fringes of their overarching cultures). Maher's past extreme and unfortunate comments about Muslims notwithstanding... They are not the mainstream, nor are they anything approaching a majority. They are, rather, a small (though vocal and active!) minority. As Maher said in this video, "let's not confuse 5,000 people with 74 million."

Click to expand...

Not a Bill Maher fan here, but he does call out the hypocrisy and over the top melodramatics at the time that are being pushed. He has done this more than once, and doesn't back down.

He gets creamed, called names - labeled for it. He calls out both sides, and I don't have a problem with it. People that label and call names tend not to have the debate skills to talk about issues anyway. Their bullying skills make them feel they have won - which is sad.

The politicians (both sides), the celebrities, much of the media - and the list goes on (vocal ones) do blur the lines to confuse. They are pushing fear, chaos and the rest to make it seem like 74 million because they can. You say it enough times - have their cohors parrot it - issue the statements have it repeated in the media - people are going to start to wonder and fear. You can't deal with the 5,000 effectively in that atmosphere which makes me wonder if they want too. The powers that be that is. Makes me think they don't, because its a tool that they use. You can control things better if the confusion and fear levels are high. Makes it easier for them to steer the ship if you will.

What's appalling to me how the culture is taking the true sting out of words and dynamics. People confuse hate speech (which is real) with speech that they hate (completely different). People tell others they are (insert the fave label/name calling) if they can't agree with their POV, and then assign false motives/intentions as if it were true with the upmost malice that they can dream up. There are so many 'isms' or 'phobias' today that are used to divide and create contempt. It is really beyond stupid at this point. Racism for example - one that really bothers me - used to mean something truly ugly. It's thrown around so much that is disrespects the word and makes it a joke. I hate that!! Yet, all the sides will point at the other side as the responsible ones for doing it. Nonsense - they all do.

Bill Maher - along with others - call out the hypocrisy and present common sense...and people's reaction to it is the true extremism. The rest of the groups that people are screaming about (white supremacist, Anifta, Muslim/Christian Terrorists) about are just joining the show.

Magnanimity said:

On one level, I think your intuitions here are correct. Radicalization is radicalization. It matters very little whether a person asserts that he is a part of this or that religion or no religion at all. If any person has been radicalized and is open to acting violently, that person (or group of persons) must be opposed by the wider society.



I tend to agree with Bill Maher that all of these folks (from Islamic terrorists to Evangelical white supremacists are the fringes of their overarching cultures). Maher's past extreme and unfortunate comments about Muslims notwithstanding... They are not the mainstream, nor are they anything approaching a majority. They are, rather, a small (though vocal and active!) minority. As Maher said in this video, "let's not confuse 5,000 people with 74 million."

And let's acknowledge the real-world plights that occur in people's lives that make them susceptible to being radicalized, to include financial troubles and the desperation entailed by them. I'm sure that Maher is far too leftist for many here. But, when he says of Ashli Babbett, that "all she knew is that she lives in a state that seems to care more about her toxic whiteness than her toxic brokeness. And that the state that's run entirely by Democrats? Yeah, they didn't stop anyone from charging her 169% interest on a loan either." Spot on! Get em, Maher. Get all of them, Right or Left.



I do have to say that it says something fairly alarming that Trump was able to increase his percentage of the popular vote in 2020 (over 2016), and that this percentage increase occurred during the highest turnout ever for a presidential election. Which is to say, that despite all that Trump showed Americans that he was (for four years) he still managed to increase his numbers during his reelection race! To me, that's an amazing fact. He lost in 2020 mostly because he lost key states, not because he didn't have enough votes cast for him overall.

But, the percentage of 2020 Trump voters who would riot and storm the capitol? Miniscule. They must be opposed, but let's not exaggerate about their numbers (any more than we should exaggerate about violent Muslims).

Click to expand...

The difference with Islam is that the Koran promotes violence against "infidels". Where infidels are a minority, they suffer discrimination at the least, persecution, violence and often, murder. It is a criminal offence to convert from Islam to any other religion. The sentence is death. Likewise, insulting Mohamed or in any way desecrating or mocking the Koran. No one gets murdered for burning a Bible or converting to Islam. I don't know where he gets 74 million Muslims from. It's more like 1.6 billion, unless he means USA only.

Muslim nations have an agenda. It is to spread Islam in any way that it can. Likewise Muslim extremists who seek to impose a Muslim caliphate by force. It helps to remember that lying to infidels is permitted if it is to promote the cause of Islam. Which is why I do not believe anything that the "religion of peace" has to say about anything. There are too many headstones with "murdered by a Muslim" inscribed on them. Oh, and the reason people are afraid to say what they really think of Islam, at least publicly, is that they don't want one of those headstones.

hedrick said:

They came out of the closet because of Trump.

Click to expand...

This is a partial truth (no offense). They came out of the closet because of Trump, who held office because of the overwhelming support of white evangelical voters (God love each and every one of them). Eliminate white evangelicals from the equation and you might not have had Trump. There is a direct causal connection between the voter and the politician and everything that politician does. That is why Christians, in a democracy, should be very wary of throwing their faith behind a political leader.

hedrick said:

They came out of the closet because of Trump. It's not so clear how to put them back though. 100 bills have been introduced in states to restrict voting. It's pretty clear that while most aren't violent, the determination to support conservatism no matter what is popular among almost half the population.

One NYTimes opinion writer suggested that we should look to Joseph McCarthy and the red scare as a model. It did in fact largely vanish pretty quickly. We can only hope.

Click to expand...

I think that putting the loonies back in their bin starts with producing a viable alternative.

Republicans need a champion that can revive pride in the party without resorting to crazy conspiracies.

I remember after 9/11, when George Bush was in new York, standing over debris with a bull horn. And he gave this huge inspirational speech. America was behind him 100% on paying the taliban a visit (he certainly didn't believe in any inside job conspiracies).

Republicans have gone through 4 years under the trump administration which, imo has been a big mess. We need someone new and strong that we can have pride in, who stands up for republican policies, and freedom.